Topic: How Satoshi Nakamoto Fooled the World - page 4. (Read 8881 times)

I think my tiny contribution is will end today because among other reasons, everything has its time. And the time to end this bullshit has come!
Still I want to thank to whoever tried to (honestly) educate @SnowShow because in the process I also learned (or I shall say I cemetend) a few concepts that were kinda still floating on my mind regarding fiat money and fiat systems. Yes, I don't know a lot about the subject, so I took the opportunity to learn a bit more with this troll. I also tried to point out some aspects I think are very important from a theoretical standpoint such as the properties of sound/hard money and some other concepts that Austrian school likes to emphasize with all due reasoning that we all know this school has!

Thanks to all those people that shared insights, thoughts and knowledge and also to @Snowshow that was able to provide some good laughs, jokes and trolls.
darkV!

You highlight something I had been noticing.  My comments seem to be getting simpler and simpler, as though I was being forced to remove the layers of abstraction.  It is as though I was molding my comments so that any small child could understand it.  But even this type of simplification has not sufficed, which leads to the next comment, that Snowshow is just being intentionally obtuse.



Here we thought that some interesting idea about bitcoin was being laid out in the OP, but rather this thread has become a study in the mental gymnastics of a ... fill in the blank.

Hahahahaha

You seem to be getting at some of the crux of Snowshow's apparent difficulties to engage in abstract thinking.. so in that regard, he apparently is not having an easy time to assign value to anything that is not physically graspable.. ..

Many kids cannot really engage in abstract thinking before they are 5 years old or so, and surely, abstract thinking is not an absolute, but instead something that likely builds in the sense that some kids will be capable of abstract thinking sooner than others, and surely some adults have a lot of difficulties with abstract thinking..

Surely Snowshow is not completely devoid of abstract thinking, but instead he seems to ONLY be selectively applying it...... and so maybe one of the ONLY services that Snowshow happens to be providing here is a springboard for several of us to continuously illustrate the various ways that he is a purposeful dumbfuck regarding various bitcoin basics - and the same is true when he might apply some abstract principles (or do we call it pure faith and belief) to the powers and workability to various fiat systems, while at the same time failing/refusing to appreciate that bitcoin is even less abstract and fantastical than the many belief and faith hoops that have to be achieved if believing in fiat systems... in that regard, bitcoin reveals itself as such a concrete kind of system in which ongoingly verifying of the ledger contributes towards the recognition (for those able to see it) that bitcoin is the most grounded of value systems (thus soundest of monies).. so in that sense less abstract than fiat systems.


Hahahaha

Snowshow seems to hardly know if he is coming or going.. so that's why he put a sock puppet in here too..

Of course, we already know that either he does not read or if he does read, he does not respond to actual substantive points or reality that undermine his various ongoingly lame stances...

And yeah sometimes he does bring up or refer to some of the points when he thinks that he can spin them in some kind of an abstract way (which does show that he is capable of abstract thinking and even abstract presentations)...

So if he is not dumb. .then what is he?  I know.. I know.. I know... I am not expecting that any of us are that fooled into thinking that Snowshow is even trying to make any progress beyond his various ongoingly dumbass talking-points, and maybe even he is frustrated from time to time regarding how little purpose he seems to be playing in this whole matter beyond just serving as a kind of ongoing comic relief.. to the extent that is even helping anyone to get some laughter at the dweeb..   

Go back 40 pages and see how many stupidity you have wrote over the pages. The non sense, the contraditions, the lies, etc. And further more, the amount of times you repeate yourself over and over again. You are either a resilient troller and you just keep trying the troll while deep there you understand what is happening with the fiat system but won't admit it or you are really some retard paid by someone to keep this thread going with the shit chat you've been doing for almots 40 pages!

I now realize that I have found the Achilles heel in the mentality of this "Snowshow".

He doesn't think that mathematics is a valuable resource, therefore he doesn't understand that information is a resource.  Because they can't touch it, hold it in a bag, throw it at a wall.  You can't punch an idea.  And yet, it is one of the most powerful resources humankind has.

You know some of the earliest computers were used to calculate trajectories for artillery.  These "calculated trajectories" were used to successfully hit the enemy with shells of ammo, or explosives.  One cannot hold a "trajectory" in your hand, it's just numbers.  

But guess what, I bet these trajectories held great value to the commanders in the battlefield.  They were probably worth their weight in gold.  Or, now they may be worth there weight in bitcoins.

Translation = the troll is beat and gave up.

Ha, gotcha.

I tend to keep my comments simple and succinct.  Any normal person would easily be able to follow my comment's logic. 

Your reply, on the other hand, shows that you are intentionally pretending to misunderstand. 

You are projecting.

Go educate yourself how banks operate and manage debt. Or you can repeat the same stupidity. I don't even read your responses anymore.

The level of stupidity in your statements is stunning. You're saying that no resources need to be transferred in a transaction. WTF?! How's that a transaction then? You gave your car to someone and some anonymous people just write down that you have 5 tokens, that you cannot even show. How's that a transaction? How do you know what degree of utility can you get in return for the degree of utility that a car can provide? I mean,  you know this whole thing  is stupid as fuck. But instead of admitting this, you just say: 'well, I guess nothing needs to be transferred in a transaction. No resource. Nothing. It's enough to just write some number into a database.' You people are literally out of your minds. I understand those that want to get some money out of this Ponzi scheme. But trying to defend this as some revolutionary invention is crazy.

So why does it seems to me that you are kind of deffending the same idea @ShitShow is trying to put out that Bitcoin are imaginary numbers and all that crap, which is obviously a very lame attempt to decredit Bitcoin and also that Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme, when in fac this is what happens in fiat system?
And also why are you putting Bitcoin in the same bag as "cryptocurrencies"? I'm kinda lost in your position!




I said this, at least twice. The function shiat money bills do, Bitcoin does it 10x better, if not more, considering all the properties that a sound/hard money like Bitcoin has! But he keeps repeating the same thing over an over, as if by repeating them over and over, they could somehow enter our heads and we get brainwashed by the constant repetition. Well, that might work with lies, that when you tell them a lot, maybe they become truth for some lower level IQ people, but not all!

Shiat money has been working because the majority of people was convinced (excuse me, coerced) to accept that governments are turstfull enough to say that those pieces of paper hold some (here, yes) imaginary amount of value (representing the debt the government creates/issue), has in fact that value. So, it's being backed by something you can't even palpate, see, smell, toutch...

We just stated facts, so you just admitted that you see Bitcoin features as something with a positive connotation, if you interpret it as advertising, because advertisements usually try to sell you something. I stated several times that i don’t want you to buy any Bitcoin, even if you start to understand it.

Shocking :O. The network is running since it’s creation without fault almost. Gets upgrades and is being maintained. Does its job as an P2P electronic cash system, and other things. Shocking statement to say: Bitcoin does the job it’s supposed to do.

The irony is that you’re describing what happens in fiat. I give you the car, and you give me 5 paper stickers back with „500“ written on it. We act like it’s the most serious thing in the world, just because it came out of a specific printing press that is chosen by some entity(government).

Or when we’re using digital payments, it gets sent to some payment processors database and it takes days until that number gets written inside the database of my bank. There’s many hops to take and the whole architecture is a mess, outdated and insecure. And a pain for businesses:

People just won’t grasp that computers aren’t completely detached from the physical world. There’s over 15.000 nodes or more with the whole copy of the chain, that is more than any bank has. His money is literally saved around the entire world, instead of being stored by just some private company/ companies. He can recover it from anywhere with his keys. A nuke can hit his country and his money will still be safe. They all verify that the rules of the network are being enforced, manipulation would be detected fast. In his banks database we gotta trust what they’re doing, some central entity can decide what they want. Delete, manipulate whatever. It’s not transparent, nor is there some mechanism that can prevent it with a guarantee.

I see what you mean here, I see what you are trying to figure out.

You think some "resource" needs to be transferred, but you want this "resource" to be made of some atoms.  Or, at least that's what I think you meant.

There are material resources: computers, their wiring, the electricity that make them run are made of atoms, electrons, and charges that flow through the wires. These material resources help computers, the internet, and bitcoin to function in a timely manner, but they aren't necessary for the internet or bitcoin to function.  What you are missing, and can't seem to understand is that the "resource" incorporated in a bitcoin transaction is actually "informational".  It is wrapped up in its cryptography, in the mathematics that allow it to work.

There is value in understanding the following knowledge:  1+1=2.   If you can't understand why that type of knowledge is valuable, then you will never understand why exchanging bitcoins for products across the globe can have value.

Sure, paper stickers can be money because paper is a resource. Although the utility of such resource is small, in theory you can at least compare its degree of utility to the degrees of utility of other resources. But in the Nakamoto scheme, you cannot even show stickers or tokens, neither digital nor paper ones.. All you can show is a number in your wallet that represent the amount of digital tokens. Giving up the actual, valuable resources just because a system of an anonymous person will tell you that you hold a specific amount of tokens that you cannot even show, is the stupidest thing humans ever invented. Putting money in this stupidity because you hope you'll make some money is one thing. But trying to defend it, by writing endless rants about freedom, revolution, new money, etc. is the stupidity of a high order. I mean, just taking a small look on what some guys here are writing and you don't know whether to laugh or to cry.

Exactly - though, there are unrealized gains - that's the way bitcoin works. There are no costly intermediaries which make it work less efficiently, because there's no product/service either.

And it works. We've collectively decided that it's a form of money, and it works like a charm. There's motivation to be responsible for your monetary policy. It's a brand you thing; something you couldn't gain before. There's an alternative monetary system, whose usage isn't now more being forced. We can either use it or not use it, as we please. We believe that power comes with monetary control. We reasonably evaluate this.

Rather, an entire economy.

The network can be accessed by either the clear net, the Tor network, the i2p network, using the TCP/IP protocol. It can also be accessed via satellite. The network's units (bitcoins) can be acquired using either centralized, decentralized exchanges or no exchanges at all.

Wo, the level of cognitive dissonance in that statement is rather high.  Most people's cognitive dissonance varies, on a scale of 1 to 10, most can be at 2 or 3.  It would seem yours goes to 11, and is permanently set at 11 as this thread shows.

About your little "5 paper stickers", what you seem to miss is that "on an alternate Earth"  (like in Sliders) those stickers might be the form of money, of some kind of payment system.  Maybe on that alternate Earth a system was setup a long time ago that made these little stickers have a kind of meaning that most agreed upon, so that it meant it had some value in that world, so that those people could exchange it for goods and services.

Here on this planet, there has been a long history of humans attaching a value, to an agreed upon item, and then this item is used as a base with which to exchange goods and services.  Maybe you should look this up on your own, but for example a long time ago we humans on this planet used shells as a form of money, then later some used silver bars, then it was small knives made of bronze, then instead of small knives it became easier to carry small metal coins with a stamped engraving. ... At some point paper money gets invented, with all its trappings, then credit cards with its trappings.

Then along comes an interesting invention that most call the "computer".  It is difficult to nail down the creation of the earliest computer, but around 1822 Charles Babbage is credited with creating a difference engine, which some credit as being one of the first mechanical computers.  Later he designs an analytical engine, which is considered to be the first Turing machine.  As far as I know, all computers these days are Turing machines.

Skipping ahead a bit -- by the 1950's we get electronic digital computers, which are far more successful than the older analog tube machines.  The transistor made a huge impact on getting these machines to shrink in size.

Then guess what happens next.  People notice that these machines can be linked electronically together, this would allow these machines to do more than any machine can individually.  Then in 1969 the US department of defense's Advanced Research Projects Agency (ARPA) awards a contract for development of the ARPANET.  This was the start of what we now use as the "internet".  You are able to read this comment on this page because of the work done to create the internet.  You are now using this "internet".

Then, sometime at the end of 2008 someone introduces, on the internet, a protocol that runs on the "internet", and which can be used to trade things, just as if it were money, as if it were the shells, or the pieces of metal, "coins", that the early humans used so many years ago.  Except that this electronic protocol has many new features that those old "coins" didn't have.  For example, this new protocol, let's call them bitcoins, can be sent via the internet, and it's a piece of electronic data that cannot be easily replicated, thus giving it value that will hold as one person sends it to another via the electronic channel, the internet.

So these "bitcoin" perform a similar function on this planet as your "5 paper stickers" do on that other Earth.

I realize you won't understand this, because either you are incapable of understanding, or because you pretend to not understand.  I simply leave this comment here for others who are still learning.

I mean really. You act like an advertising bot. Participants in this thread also. Just take a look at this statement of yours: "Bitcoin does the job it’s supposed to do." What job? If you give me a car and I give you back 5 paper stickers with the word "Thanks", and this gets written in some database as "5 THX", what job would that stickers and data about them do? What that has to do with the concepts of economy, payment or transactions? Nothing. These concepts mean the production and the exchange of resources. They don't mean saying thanks via stickers when you receive a resource for free. In Nakamoto case you don't even get stickers when you give your resources for free to someone. You get only a number saying that you have a specific amount of digital tokens that you even cannot show. So what job are you talking about? There's no job. All there is are the participants in Nakamoto's Ponzi scheme, like you, repeating false advertising and propaganda for luring more people in so you could get out with more than you invested in this Ponzi.

I missed this part, what exactly do you mean? Bitcoin can be accessed without gates, it allows you to become completely self sovereign when you run your own node and hold your own keys. You ideally acquire Bitcoin in a P2P way on decentralized exchanges/ in person for various reasons.

Please learn to read what is written.  

I voted for Ron Paul and have been a member of RonPaulForums.com since it's inception.  I understand the fiat money issue.  Time is a good teacher.

22 years later and this speech could still be held today, word by word. Its probably the latest speech of a politician on this topic, even tho its so old, that says a lot. I cant even remember any other politician trying to address these issues ever and were seeing the results of it. Not one single issue he addressed was solved in the last 22 years and we will have to pay the price for it, as they just have been delayed till now.

Bitcoin is not "cryptocurrency". You're confusing things and messing all up just like @Shitshow!.

You should listen things like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwWVKqpxZtI

See what he says about fiat money... And think again and try again!