Title needs to be changed to, "How to slightly inconvenience bitcoin by throwing 70 million dollars away"
Exactly, what stupid thinking is that it would end bitcoin? The Confirmation time would just take a bit longer for a bit of time not kill bitcoin. 
Topic: How to end Bitcoin with as little as 15% of hashpower efficiently (Read 2526 times)
January 06, 2015, 11:55:25 AM
Yes, this is a known vulnerability. Indeed, several alts have been tanked in this manner. However, it was done with several times the previous hashrate, not a fraction.
The reason this could be done, is because 100s even maybe 1000s of times the equipment for that hashrate existed outside of those altcoins. Even before bitcoin was on ASICs it would have been extremely difficult to round up as many GPUs as bitcoiners were using at the time, and that was a device that had general purposes, like gaming, and was being used for scientific computation in some larger supercomputers.
So, there does not exist a significantly large amount of SHA256 hash power outside of the bitcoin network, there's a percentage on some SHA256 Altcoins, there's some old avalons that suck 10 times in electricity what they make in bitcoin, you could buy up every single one of those, blackout a decent sized city trying to power them up, and probably not even be able to pick them out from the noise/luck variation on the network hash graph.
January 06, 2015, 11:42:04 AM
someone should at least try it just to make sure
Go for it.
January 06, 2015, 11:41:08 AM
- you can't just buy 15% of the hash rate
depends on who you are
Go ahead and make a list of costs and constraints (manufacturing, logistics, etc.) for achieving 15%.
Please, take into account the time necessary to build these 15% (currently 50 PH/s) from scratch; and your actual hashrate share by the time you're done...
Finally, make a list of actors that could meet those costs and actually be able to achieve 15%.
... And don't forget to account for the time and money required to build a leading semiconductor fab. And the requisite wafer manufacturing facility. Nevermind that the production of all the significant inputs of required unique equipment is watched closely and reported by trade magazines. This just cannot be done in stealth.
Yes, this is a known vulnerability. Indeed, several alts have been tanked in this manner. However, it was done with several times the previous hashrate, not a fraction.
Inconvenience, not fatal wound. OP needs to rethink the magnitudes involved.
January 06, 2015, 09:43:56 AM
someone should at least try it just to make sure
January 06, 2015, 09:18:23 AM
other arguments are false very likely. The claim 50% drop would cause 20 minutes blocks is likely wrong.
I'm very sorry to inform you that due to a very large dump of stupid on this forum of late, it's currently worth nothing, not even the usual 2 cents. Maybe you should save it up in a cold wallet for a while.
January 06, 2015, 09:16:59 AM
the more interesting (and hypothetical) part is: what happens after the difficult adjustment, after all the hashpower comes back at a very low difficult
what happens after they come back at low diff should be the next 2016 blocks will be mined very fast. So 2 weeks of mining in maybe a day or two (depending on how big the difference). So actually everyone would mine like mad in case the attack doesn't kill it, right?
This is certainly more interesting now.
January 06, 2015, 09:10:06 AM
I'm sure a government can hire their experts. This discussion becomes tiring.
This is what people say when they have ran out of facts or analysis to back up there claims, fuck the math & facts, send the bogey man in
January 06, 2015, 09:07:04 AM
Let's ask the other way: at what hashrate loss would a block take 3,10 or 12 hours to solve?
Please, go ahead. Here are the basic formula :
target_hashrate = DIFFICULTY * 7.158278826666667 # target hashrate (MH/s)
actual_hashrate = target_hashrate * (600 / TIME_PER_BLOCK) # hashrate for a block that took TIME_PER_BLOCK seconds to solve (MH/s)
January 06, 2015, 09:04:28 AM
to answer your question:
if you want ~3h blocks you need to bring the hashrate down to only: 5%
if you want ~12h blocks you need to bring the hashrate down to only: 1.4%
good luck with that.
the more interesting (and hypothetical) part is: what happens after the difficult adjustment, after all the hashpower comes back at a very low difficult
if you want ~3h blocks you need to bring the hashrate down to only: 5%
if you want ~12h blocks you need to bring the hashrate down to only: 1.4%
good luck with that.
the more interesting (and hypothetical) part is: what happens after the difficult adjustment, after all the hashpower comes back at a very low difficult
January 06, 2015, 09:01:12 AM
- you can't just buy 15% of the hash rate
depends on who you are
Go ahead and make a list of costs and constraints (manufacturing, logistics, etc.) for achieving 15%.
Please, take into account the time necessary to build these 15% (currently 50 PH/s) from scratch; and your actual hashrate share by the time you're done...
Finally, make a list of actors that could meet those costs and actually be able to achieve 15%.
January 06, 2015, 09:00:43 AM
So, please tell me, who can buy 15% of the hash rate, in what time schedule? It's not like, I go in the store and say: "Here is 1 billion dollar, one 15% of Bitcoin hash rate, please".
Still, nothing about my other counter arguments.
if i was a gov or a central bank i'd probably get all the hash i wanted. If nobody would deliver to me i would have the recouces to build my own asics. Does this even need to be explained?
You can't enter a market as a newbie and become one of the big players in a short time.
I'm sure a government can hire their experts. This discussion becomes tiring.
That is just another way to say, you have no idea what you are talking about.
January 06, 2015, 08:59:41 AM
So, please tell me, who can buy 15% of the hash rate, in what time schedule? It's not like, I go in the store and say: "Here is 1 billion dollar, one 15% of Bitcoin hash rate, please".
Still, nothing about my other counter arguments.
if i was a gov or a central bank i'd probably get all the hash i wanted. If nobody would deliver to me i would have the recouces to build my own asics. Does this even need to be explained?
other arguments are false very likely. The claim 50% drop would cause 20 minutes blocks is likely wrong. I'd think they would take much longer.
Let's ask the other way: at what hashrate loss would a block take 3,10 or 12 hours to solve?
lol. rly. its math boy.
January 06, 2015, 08:57:25 AM
So, please tell me, who can buy 15% of the hash rate, in what time schedule? It's not like, I go in the store and say: "Here is 1 billion dollar, one 15% of Bitcoin hash rate, please".
Still, nothing about my other counter arguments.
if i was a gov or a central bank i'd probably get all the hash i wanted. If nobody would deliver to me i would have the recouces to build my own asics. Does this even need to be explained?
You can't enter a market as a newbie and become one of the big players in a short time.
I'm sure a government can hire their experts. This discussion becomes tiring.
January 06, 2015, 08:55:56 AM
So, please tell me, who can buy 15% of the hash rate, in what time schedule? It's not like, I go in the store and say: "Here is 1 billion dollar, one 15% of Bitcoin hash rate, please".
Still, nothing about my other counter arguments.
if i was a gov or a central bank i'd probably get all the hash i wanted. If nobody would deliver to me i would have the recouces to build my own asics. Does this even need to be explained?
You can't enter a market as a newbie and become one of the big players in a short time.
January 06, 2015, 08:52:00 AM
So, please tell me, who can buy 15% of the hash rate, in what time schedule? It's not like, I go in the store and say: "Here is 1 billion dollar, one 15% of Bitcoin hash rate, please".
Still, nothing about my other counter arguments.
if i was a gov or a central bank i'd probably get all the hash i wanted. If nobody would deliver to me i would have the recouces to build my own asics. Does this even need to be explained?
other arguments are false very likely. The claim 50% drop would cause 20 minutes blocks is likely wrong. I'd think they would take much longer.
Let's ask the other way: at what hashrate loss would a block take 3,10 or 12 hours to solve?
January 06, 2015, 08:46:47 AM
some potent stuff here. You guys are pretty wicked though cooking stuff like this up.
The denying bagholders is just normal. I consider it 'noise' at this point.
depends on who you are
Oh, I forgot about that mighty wizard living in this big dark castle.The denying bagholders is just normal. I consider it 'noise' at this point.
- you can't just buy 15% of the hash rate
depends on who you are
What about my other arguments?
i think one shouldn't be too sure about things because being too sure about oneself greatly increases the risks to be caught off guard.
The attack pointed out here is not easy to carry out but in case it would be successful it would be the end of bitcoin. I've also not seen it in this form before and the combination of these different attacks makes it quite potent.
Talking it down to the point of denial is always a good strategy
(not)Still, nothing about my other counter arguments.
January 06, 2015, 08:36:28 AM
some potent stuff here. You guys are pretty wicked though cooking stuff like this up.
The denying bagholders is just normal. I consider it 'noise' at this point.
depends on who you are
Oh, I forgot about that mighty wizard living in this big dark castle.The denying bagholders is just normal. I consider it 'noise' at this point.
- you can't just buy 15% of the hash rate
depends on who you are
What about my other arguments?
i think one shouldn't be too sure about things because being too sure about oneself greatly increases the risks to be caught off guard.
The attack pointed out here is not easy to carry out but in case it would be successful it would be the end of bitcoin. I've also not seen it in this form before and the combination of these different attacks makes it quite potent.
Talking it down to the point of denial is always a good strategy
(not) January 06, 2015, 08:32:48 AM
some potent stuff here. You guys are pretty wicked though cooking stuff like this up.
The denying bagholders is just normal. I consider it 'noise' at this point.
depends on who you are
Oh, I forgot about that mighty wizard living in this big dark castle.The denying bagholders is just normal. I consider it 'noise' at this point.
- you can't just buy 15% of the hash rate
depends on who you are
What about my other arguments?
January 06, 2015, 08:31:30 AM
where there is just a short disturbance.
A very short disturbance, mining software lets you set failover pools, pretty much every miner is set up with them, can't contact pool for a few seconds, NEXT!
Jump to: