Topic: How to stop paying taxes, and get out from under government control. - page 2. (Read 774 times)

Sometimes these so-called "anti-statist" posts amuse me for their controversial claims. Having gone over the previous comments, I surmises that there's a conspiracy page here somewhere which I'm afraid, I'd have to say "pass" to.

I'm pretty sure that the world's best and brightest accountants and lawyers are trying to 'solve' these taxation concerns using whatever means possible. But in truth, many of them will eventually fail and get discovered.

Google tried it, Apple tried it, Amazon tried it - and once it gets discovered, the media publishes the story. If it doesn't get media mileage and public furor, other like-minded smaller business entities try to copy and emulate. Eventually, the sheer number of corporate identities doing the "really effective tax avoidance" scheme, gets found out, because of an idealistic insider, a investigative media reporter or simply because the system failed.

Two things you cannot avoid: death and taxes.

Unless. Maybe. Unless, you are a stateless entity.

But even stateless entities or individuals, need to have a place of residence right? And in making an income through work, business or investment must disclose this information. Even if you somehow manage to not disclose that, when you buy things in certain countries, the act of buying has an automatic de facto "tax" imposed on it, that's already been factored into the price of the good.

Even then! If somehow through sheer perspicacity you manage to avoid all of those, if you live in a failed state such as say, Somalia, taxes come in other coercive forms made through the local militias. In short, as long as your assets and identity are tied to a normal functioning state, it will by means of force, coercion and whatever means at its disposal - find a way to tax you, whether you like it or not.

Ok...   I finally read the link you provided.  All I can say is wow.   That is so full of BS, lies, inaccuracies, and flat out false information.  

So you get put on a "Red Flag" or "Restricted" list that says the cops know you are special?
You wont get taken in on warrants for not paying or responding to traffic citations?
Affidavit of high crimes and treason can get the judge/cop/prosecutor in trouble?

I pray that anyone who believes this load of crap prints out a copy and shows it to the arresting officers. The body cam footage will be priceless entertainment.

I've worked for the government since 1990. Both Federal, and local law enforcement.  And I will offer a 3 gazillion dollar reward to anyone who can provide direction to this Red Flag or Restricted list.

Most of my talk is about people who are not taxpayers.

Voluntary taxation - You have voluntary control. If you are not a taxpayer, you have essentially volunteered to not pay taxes.

Mandatory law - The law of the land is contract law. Becoming a taxpayer is the law of the land for those who have contracted to so be.

Taxation compliance - The IRS can be all over the board regarding how they treat various taxpayers. They are generally hands-off with regard to a knowledgeable person who isn't a taxpayer.

Failure to comply - If you volunteered to be a taxpayer, you had better comply. Not only is there threat of punishment if you don't, but it is unethical to break your contracts and agreements. This is standard knowledge.


The point is the difference between a taxpayer and a person who isn't a taxpayer, even if the non-taxpayer is in the same job as someone else who is a taxpayer.

The U.S. tax code operates on a system of voluntary compliance. Some taxpayers have used the voluntary nature of the tax system to support their claims that they don't have to pay tax at all. However, it isn't the payment of the tax itself that is voluntary. Rather, it's the manner in which people submit their own taxes.

Voluntary taxation

The nature of the voluntary tax system in the U.S. takes the calculation of taxes owed out of the hands of the federal government. You are responsible as an individual taxpayer to calculate what you owe. You're expected to voluntarily comply with the tax code by reporting what you owe to the government and paying the entire amount that you owe under the law.


Mandatory law

The Internal Revenue Code is the law of the land when it comes to determining your tax liability. While you may be able to take a deduction here or there that's in a gray area, and you may be able to argue that you have complied with all applicable tax laws, the taxes that you are legally required to pay are outlined in the IRC. You can find the IRC via the IRS website, which will direct you to the Cornell University Legal Information Institute website.


Taxation compliance

Between the complexity of the tax code and general human nature, the IRS is convinced that U.S. taxpayers, in aggregate, do not pay their fair share of taxes. As of 2006, the IRS estimated that the tax gap between what taxpayers paid and what they owed was $450 billion. This is part of the reason why the IRS conducts audits. Since 100-percent compliance would be nearly impossible to achieve or enforce, the IRS has a goal of 90-percent compliance.

Failure to comply

Although the U.S. tax system is voluntary, failure to comply carries stiff penalties. If you under-report your income or overstate your deductions, you'll face fines and interest charges. If you fail to file a tax return, the IRS will file a substitute return based only on the information it has—meaning you likely won't receive the benefit of any deductions and will end up paying more tax than you should. The IRS also has the power to levy your bank accounts, garnish your wages and place a lien on your property if you don't voluntarily pay what you owe. In serious cases, you may even face criminal charges.

Nobody is saying that, depending on your circumstances, you won't have to fight it in court with the IRS. And I am not suggesting that anyone do this without knowing what he is doing. But...

You only get into any position in the USA by contract, IRS or otherwise. By the US Constitution, contracts are voluntary. If you volunteer in, you can volunteer out. The OP takes you to sites that show you how your parents volunteered you in when they signed for your SSN. But that only lasts until you are of age, except if you maintain the position of volunteering in.

Just to show you that it is voluntary, consider the 13th Amendment:
Why is the 13th Amendment relevant? Because you work on a job for a certain salary, etc. If they take some of it in the form of taxes that you haven't volunteered into, they are taking it in a way that makes it involuntary servitude or slavery. If they say that government is providing you with all kinds of benefits for your tax money, and therefore it isn't involuntary servitude, let them show you an itemized list of the things that you actually got from them, in such a way that anybody can see that you got them. In other words, let them show the receipt you signed for actual, tangible government benefits that you really received.

I mean, when you go to a store and buy some products, they give you an itemized receipt, and they keep a copy. For bigger items, like something that you might pick up at a warehouse, they get your signature on the line when you pick it up. In court, let government provide their copy with your signature for things they gave you, and that you actually received, in return for your money. If they can't show this, they are trying to swindle you out of your property in an involuntary servitude way.

If you haven't done this, how can you say that it doesn't work this way? Others HAVE done it this way, and it works. But don't do it unless you know that you are not a taxpayer, and are in the right frame of mind to show them this fact. And definitely don't do it if you are contracted with them in some way.

Thats not how it works.  Thats not how any of this works

The question is, Can YOU read without assuming?

A1 in the link starts: "Some taxpayers assert that they are not required to file federal tax returns because the filing of a tax return is voluntary." And that statement is absolutely true. The fact is that you can find taxpayers and non-taxpayers all over the place who assert all different kinds of things.

Since I wasn't talking about taxpayers, your link is probably not applicable. I didn't read it all, because I found the word "taxpayer" throughout, and I didn't find "non-taxpayer" or "not a taxpayer."

When you look into it, you will find that taxpayers are people who have a voluntary contract or voluntary agreement with the IRS. The word "taxpayer" isn't a normal word in the dictionary, except that it might gradually be becoming one. Rather, "taxpayer" is a legalease word. It is legal language, and you don't really know what it means, because judges can change it's meaning any time they want in court, because it is a legal word.

People on a simple job sign a W-4 in a standard way. They are taxpayers because they agreed to be such by voluntarily filling out and signing this form. There are ways around this, and still filing a W-4 in the regular way. One of them is by becoming a State Citizen rather than a U.S. citizen, as spoken about in the OP and other areas of this thread.

But the way to get around it when you ARE a U.S. citizen, is to write "n-a" on all the blanks of the W-4, "Exempt" on line 7, and sign it "non-assumpsit, Your Signature." To make this even stronger is to sign it "non-assumpsit, By: Your Signature, Agent, Man."

Now, if you have other documents that you have signed with the IRS, depending on what they are, you might still be a taxpayer. But if you don't have any other agreements or contracts or signed documents with the IRS, and only the W-4 as I have outlined above, you probably aren't a taxpayer, no matter where you live or work. Btw, if there is pressure on you to fill out a 1040, fill it out the same way: "n-a" on all the lines, and sign it "non-assumpsit, Your Signature."

You do it this way because you are not a taxpayer, and you don't really have any right to be filling out their forms. Just be sure to maintain the fact that you are not a taxpayer in any of your letters or other paperwork with them, and by signing: "non-assumpsit, Your Signature."

The "Frivolous Tax Arguments in General" at https://www.irs.gov/privacy-disclosure/the-truth-about-frivolous-tax-arguments-section-i-a-to-c is absolutely correct. It is for taxpayers, and if you want to be such, pay your taxes. In addition, if you use IRS forms in ways other than I have provided above, you might be making yourself into a taxpayer. If you are a taxpayer, pay your taxes. You have volunteered into the system by certain IRS documents you have signed. Don't break your contracts and agreements.

+1

How about it BADecker?  Can you read?

Don't listen to some crazy militia guys, they will land you in jail.

Don't believe nonsense you might see on the internet.

https://www.irs.gov/privacy-disclosure/the-truth-about-frivolous-tax-arguments-section-i-a-to-c

Can't you understand what I'm saying? I wrote it twice already. I repeat, nobody's looking for me, I'm not breaking any law. I'm fully legal.
Haven't you heard of the Bahamas, Monaco, Dubai? There are several countries in the world without any income tax.

There are also countries which do not tax foreign income.

It is very possible and legal not to pay any income tax, and millions of people do.
But i still pay property tax, VAT, tax on petrol, etc... You can't avoid those.

Understand my comment,when you are not getting any attention from the government for violating the laws means you are not making huge amount of money.

Right>

Silly comment. I'm not looking for attention but I'm not hiding. Never underestimate the taxman, he also looks for small fish.

Wasn't aware of this. Quite surprising actually.

All you are doing is expressing that you like to keep your head in a hole in the sand.



Those of us who know what is going on, and would like to see change back to a time where people had real authority over their lives, are learning and using the methods available to us to put government wrongdoers back into the spot they need to be... out of our lives.

If you have an SSN, you are either a US citizen or a permanent resident and you are liable to pay income taxes to the IRS. No ifs or buts.

Nobody cares if you agreed to it or not, whether you like it or not.  

IRS will come down on you like a sledgehammer.  I would not fuck with them if I were you.  They will clean you up real good.  You and all your extended family.  You will forget your name once they are done with you.

You aren't exactly right. There is more to it.

The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) and the Social Security Administration (SSA) are two different agencies. The reason the IRS issues SS numbers is that these two agencies have an agreement.

When anyone signs an application for a SS card and number (SSN), does the application ever state that anyone owes taxes? How about the IRS? No! The most that it might say on the app is that the SSN should be used for paying income and SS taxes if any are due.

This means that there has to be a different method for determining if taxes are due.

If the method for determining that taxes are due has found that taxes are owed, it is only right and legal and honorable to pay them. There isn't any question about it. If taxes are due, the one who owes should see to it that they are paid.

But that isn't what having a SSN is about. It's not about stating that someone has taxes due. It's about paying into the SSA system IF SS taxes are due.

IRS taxes are a different thing. How does one find out if IRS taxes are due? There is only one way, even though there may be several methods to get to that one way. The person voluntarily admits that he owes taxes. That's the only way.

A W-2 form is hearsay. It has no signature on it. The odds are exceedingly small that an employer will ever step up to the witness box in court and state that he knows for a fact that the amount on the W-2 form is the gross income of any employee. He won't do it because he doesn't know for a fact that he would be right. The most he might do is state that the amount on a particular W-2 form is the amount that he put there.

The point is, the only way for income determination, and taxes owed determination, is by voluntary self-assessment. There is no agreement or contract that taxes are owed until someone signs such an agreement or contract. You do it when you sign the 1040 form or the W-4 form (or other IRS forms). Otherwise you owe no taxes.

If you were ever issued SSN, you have to pay taxes on your passive and active income.

If you don't, you'll end up in jail and lose all your net worth.

Taxation is stealing. In America, if people use the law right, they don't have to pay taxes. The law is against stealing. The only reason why people pay is that they don't know the law, and most government people are trying to hide the law from them.

Means you are not making money in millions that is why you didn't get attention.

Last time I've paid income tax was in 1997, so it can be done... And no country wants to put me in jail.