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Topic: How wide reaching can the consequences of Chipmixer money laundering be? - page 3. (Read 1464 times)

legendary
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I have been reading various comments posted in the forum in the past where Chipmixer was alleged to have been a honeytrap. Some of the conspiracy theorists even said the forum was purchased by big corporations and are using it for nefarious purposes:

@theymos: False allegations made against theymos and BCT forum - by Vispilio

Until you mentioned it I probably never heard of Ghostery but as with all browser add-ons they can read your browsing history and do much more.

Regarding NordVPN, there have been rumours about them too but they have passed annual security audits regularly. As for Protonmail, apart from the time they gave the IP address to the French authorities of the person in question and when it was leaked in the media Proton clarified their position by saying they were compelled by Swiss law to hand the information over to the French police but said if the person in question had used a VPN they would have given that IP address instead.

Proton also seem to have kept certain metadata and other information which was not encrypted. Proton also said the email content was encrypted and not released to the French police. Since then there are not any rumours about their email or VPN service but they removed their no IP logging claim.

Still, I would advise to take caution and to not put blind trust in any online company.

What if I told you protonmail was just another FBI trap to lure the criminals in? How do you know they aren't?

Here is another example:

There was a browser plugin called "ghostery". It was supposed to stop google from collecting your data and guess what happened... They logged your information instead and sold them to another 3rd party (at least that's what I've read about them)
https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/1gmxdz/consumer_affairs_ghosterys_shady_sells_your_data/

Quote
Ghostery is a widget users can install in their web browsers, and it's made by a company called Evidon.

Evidon helps companies that want to improve their use of tracking code by selling them data collected from the 8 million Ghostery users who have enabled the tool's data sharing feature
https://www.businessinsider.com/evidon-sells-ghostery-data-to-advertisers-2013-6



What about NordVPN?

I am damn sure I read something about them not being as anonymous as they advertise themselves to be. Let's pretend I didn't. Would you trust NordVPN's services if you were into any illegal shit?



The moral of the story here is you cannot trust any service or any company which claims to protect your privacy. You are just making yourself an easy target especially if you are dealing with any kind of shady shit. They will let you watch porn and pretend you aren't jerking off to it and that's it. Even watching porn might get you into trouble depending on the type you are into.

Believing that protonmail is a safe privacy email service is like believing everything the TV tells you.  Grin  

- This is the most anonymous email service!
+ Why? How do you know?
- Are you blind? It says it on its cover!!
legendary
Activity: 1064
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I don’t see any reason why the FBI will want to go after participants of Chipmixer signature campaign.
Same here, and somehow this sort of thing gets discussed and come to the attention of the public.
I see no reason why CM participants should be responsible and accept the consequences for what they have carried in their signatures for several years. Even if CM is being used by criminals, I believe CM campaigns on forums are to help anyone wishing for better privacy.

I do not support money laundering, however, the perpetrators use any means including abusing mixer or casino services to complete their mission. It's unavoidable, in any case.
legendary
Activity: 2282
Merit: 3014
There is absolutely 0% chance the FBI or whatever other regulatory body this may fall under, goes after sig wearers. ZERO chance. If anyone is actually worried, don’t be. I wouldn’t lose a half second of sleep.
hero member
Activity: 1148
Merit: 555
I don’t see any reason why the FBI will want to go after participants of Chipmixer signature campaign. I will miss seeing members wear the Chipmixer signature, I always look forward to their replies because it’s always constructive and on point. Chipmixer was one of the biggest and high paying campaigns on the forum which made a campaign for high quality members. It’s not surprising that some people are happy that others can’t earn from the campaign.
hero member
Activity: 1498
Merit: 711
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In this case I have not seen the reason while FBI will investigate the participants of chipmixer in bitcointalk, besides participants have no agreement or arrangements with the clients of chipmixer, so I believe that the only person that will held responsible if the investigation should move further is the chipmixer not the participants of chipmixer signatures, participants have not committed any crime, another reason its impossible to trapped participants of chipmixer because they're from different dominations and they payout is small fraction compared to the funds involved.
legendary
Activity: 3276
Merit: 2442
Strangely enough, no data was reported from Proton's email, although it was the main email that the team used.

What if I told you protonmail was just another FBI trap to lure the criminals in? How do you know they aren't?

Here is another example:

There was a browser plugin called "ghostery". It was supposed to stop google from collecting your data and guess what happened... They logged your information instead and sold them to another 3rd party (at least that's what I've read about them)
https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/1gmxdz/consumer_affairs_ghosterys_shady_sells_your_data/

Quote
Ghostery is a widget users can install in their web browsers, and it's made by a company called Evidon.

Evidon helps companies that want to improve their use of tracking code by selling them data collected from the 8 million Ghostery users who have enabled the tool's data sharing feature
https://www.businessinsider.com/evidon-sells-ghostery-data-to-advertisers-2013-6



What about NordVPN?

I am damn sure I read something about them not being as anonymous as they advertise themselves to be. Let's pretend I didn't. Would you trust NordVPN's services if you were into any illegal shit?



The moral of the story here is you cannot trust any service or any company which claims to protect your privacy. You are just making yourself an easy target especially if you are dealing with any kind of shady shit. They will let you watch porn and pretend you aren't jerking off to it and that's it. Even watching porn might get you into trouble depending on the type you are into.

Believing that protonmail is a safe privacy email service is like believing everything the TV tells you.  Grin 

- This is the most anonymous email service!
+ Why? How do you know?
- Are you blind? It says it on its cover!!
member
Activity: 119
Merit: 38
Yo! Member
In which capacity is Wasabi lost? Their website is operational.

We lost Wasabi

It's not the Wasabi it used to. Common sense  Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 2534
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In which capacity is Wasabi lost? Their website is operational.

We lost Wasabi
hero member
Activity: 882
Merit: 1873
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I open up Bitcoin Talk and see a well known Chip Mixer participant having no Chip Mixer Signature.  I move on to Dark Star's Campaign thread and I see it ended.  What the hell, did I wake up in some parallel universe this morning?

I am so saddened by the news.  Intentionally or not, they are leaving us with fewer and fewer options.  I take the Chip Mixer seizing action and FBI statements with a HUGE pile of salt due to how much these guys HATE us having Privacy and due to how sketchy most of the authorities actions against Cryptocurrency stuff were historically.  We are living a sad moment where some of our team mates are jumping in the boats of the Enemy and others are simply being silenced and incarcerated.  We lost the Silk Road.  We lost Wasabi.  We lost Chip Mixer.  Probably more but this is all that comes up in my mind.  If you take a proper look, you see that we are slowly losing freedom.  This is what should be in your attention, and not this particular event.  Take two steps back and look at the general situation.

You know what.  If there was clear evidence any of them had an implication in such a big percentage of crimes, go for it.  But I think it is extremely unfair.  Fiat and Banks offer a much, much bigger room for crimes than Bitcoin, Wasabi, Chip Mixer or Silk Road did.  Yet, Fiat is still going.  Banks are still running, even if many of them allow Wealthy individuals to use Banks as a way to launder and move illegal money for illegal operations.

But it all goes down to this.  On the facade, FBI seizes businesses and incarcerate their operators showing the World how well intended they are.  The actual situation, to me, sounds much like the contrary.  They are taking away our freedom.  Slowly, steadily, wrongfully.  Political corruption is now known well enough to understand that politics are automatically linked to illegal operations of money.  To theft.  Bribes.  False accusations.  Room for child exploitation with zero consequences.  And so much more.  Chip Mixer did not do as much harm as any of the non Cryptocurrency related events and actions I mentioned in this post are.  This is why I say what FBI is doing is just a facade.  I have no trust in them.  I would have no trust in FBI telling me they are trying to protect me.  I would have no trust in an authority at all.

A sad day for Privacy enthusiasts.  I wish I woke up with different news.  That Wasabi somehow managed to fool them into thinking they jumped to the Enemies but actually using the Enemy to their and our advantage.  That Chip Mixer gained so much traction that FBI is afraid they can do nothing to stop them.  That some miraculous judge orders Ulbricht be free or the illegal vendors of Silk Road served the sentences they deserved instead of him.  But this is reality.  And reality almost always sucks.

I believe no body will go after Chip Mixer participants, unless they can easily link a few users and punish them as a way to frame them and show to the World why you should be afraid.  I rather think their next target is now something much bigger.  Something like this Forum.  They have bigger plans in mind than finding who PrivacyG or a random Chip Mixer participant is.  They need actions that lead to big reactions.

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

-
Regards,
PrivacyG
sr. member
Activity: 588
Merit: 351
The FBI isn’t going to come after signature wearers. They don’t have the time or resources first off. Secondly, those who advertised for CM didn’t have access to internal protocols, so how could they have known. The FBI went after the major promoters of bitconnect, but didn’t attempt to contact anyone underneath them promoting the obvious ponzi. They want those in charge, who were in the know.

In the collectibles world here on the forum there’s been an attempt to contact the FBI and other regulatory bodies over essentially theft by a coin maker that is likely well over a million dollars  ..we’ve been turned away and sent on a wild goose chase left and right to try and get some legal body to just listen to what’s going on. If it’s that hard to get someone to investigate a million dollars + in fraud, does anyone really think they’ll go after CM signature wearers who weren’t aware they were promoting an illegal business.

According to news outlets, German authorities seized servers and crypto worth $46 million. US authorities have accused Chipmixer of laundering over $3 billion since 2017. If international authorities will try to seize all funds related to Chipmixer as they are deemed to be illicit, then it is possible that an attempt could be made by authorities to retrieve all the funds that have been paid out as signature campaign fees as they have effectively promoted/advertised the service.
They should first go after Google for receiving money for scam advertising (which happens on a large scale, every single day).

This could end up being very messy for a lot of members in the forum that participated in their signature campaigns if the FBI and US justice department decide to force forum members to repay all the money they received from Chipmixer as signature campaign income.
Eh... seems like a waste of time. Not everyone is from the US, and I don't think mixers by themselves are illegal.

The paper on ChipMixer by the DoJ implies that their crimes were:

1. money laundering;
2. operating an unlicensed money-transmitting business;
3. identity theft.

Would CM be hunted if they specifically analyzed the coins received before mixing them? Like, imagine them contacting Chain analysis and asking if the coins a user sent came from a DNM, and if so, prompting the user for his KYC documents... (crime 1)

Would they be hunted if they disallowed US customers and enforced that by also taking KYC documents (thus not being an "unlicensed money-transmitting business" in the US?) (crime 2)

And last, if ChipMixer didn't register his PayPal accounts with bought/stolen documents? (crime 3)

https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1574581/download

I Remember when bitconnect ads were all over YouTube…the most obvious ponzi in a long time.  Problem is google is more powerful than the FBI, as the US allows for massive corps to fund political campaigns all they want , which means politicians are mostly just bought puppets, who can (and do) tell the FBI to leave certain companies alone. It’s the biggest joke in the US governmental system that this is still allowed.

True!! There is a huge difference between unknowingly promoting an illegal campaign which is the case on chipmixer. Few years ago this is one of my dream to be part of this successful and one of the longest running campaigns in this forum. Though I'm sadden by the recent news, it is not reasonable for FBI to pursue signature wearers and spend lots of resources doing that. Campaign promoters are getting paid to promote while following the external rule imposed on this forum, it's not as if they are directly working on the mixer. Besides if the FBI still wants to pursue this matter, it would seem to look like they are just fishing the small fishes just to prove they have the authority over, while proving nothing on the case.
legendary
Activity: 2534
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A very well articulated and thought out post. I am surprised the FBI and/or any other agency showed zero interest when members from the forum were it seems lining up to inform them of theft related to sums around $1 million.

I understand the point about Bitconnect advertising but when you look at how yahoo62278 put forward another perspective it might or might not have implications. Time will tell I suppose. This is the issue of the way and manner in which the authorities seem to implement their use of the law, the lack of consistency leads to misunderstandings.

The FBI isn’t going to come after signature wearers. They don’t have the time or resources first off. Secondly, those who advertised for CM didn’t have access to internal protocols, so how could they have known. The FBI went after the major promoters of bitconnect, but didn’t attempt to contact anyone underneath them promoting the obvious ponzi. They want those in charge, who were in the know.

In the collectibles world here on the forum there’s been an attempt to contact the FBI and other regulatory bodies over essentially theft by a coin maker that is likely well over a million dollars  ..we’ve been turned away and sent on a wild goose chase left and right to try and get some legal body to just listen to what’s going on. If it’s that hard to get someone to investigate a million dollars + in fraud, does anyone really think they’ll go after CM signature wearers who weren’t aware they were promoting an illegal business.

I Remember when bitconnect ads were all over YouTube…the most obvious ponzi in a long time.  Problem is google is more powerful than the FBI, as the US allows for massive corps to fund political campaigns all they want , which means politicians are mostly just bought puppets, who can (and do) tell the FBI to leave certain companies alone. It’s the biggest joke in the US governmental system that this is still allowed.

legendary
Activity: 2800
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Farewell LEO: o_e_l_e_o
The same forum members who, for some reason, were the loudest in demanding a pay rate reduction in the CM campaign, are now opening the champagne and celebrating what happened
It's jealously, envy, bitterness mouth tasting. A lot of people out there drives by their failure than achievements. They lack skills but works hard eventually only working hard is not taking you to the top. Skill and hard-work along with other success factor makes a man to achieve their desire. Well obviously your ethics should be not harming others.

Don't forget there are these other type of people. They seek opportunity to stay with the trend and allow themselves to get some attention.
member
Activity: 119
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Yo! Member
OP, it sounds like the topic is about a service and possible outcome for the service promoters. Does it deserve to be in the reputation?

You are not discussing about DT/none DT members, their reputation, nothing related to forum member reputation then why it's in this board.

I think moderators should move it to service discussion section.
legendary
Activity: 2282
Merit: 3014
The FBI isn’t going to come after signature wearers. They don’t have the time or resources first off. Secondly, those who advertised for CM didn’t have access to internal protocols, so how could they have known. The FBI went after the major promoters of bitconnect, but didn’t attempt to contact anyone underneath them promoting the obvious ponzi. They want those in charge, who were in the know.

In the collectibles world here on the forum there’s been an attempt to contact the FBI and other regulatory bodies over essentially theft by a coin maker that is likely well over a million dollars  ..we’ve been turned away and sent on a wild goose chase left and right to try and get some legal body to just listen to what’s going on. If it’s that hard to get someone to investigate a million dollars + in fraud, does anyone really think they’ll go after CM signature wearers who weren’t aware they were promoting an illegal business.

According to news outlets, German authorities seized servers and crypto worth $46 million. US authorities have accused Chipmixer of laundering over $3 billion since 2017. If international authorities will try to seize all funds related to Chipmixer as they are deemed to be illicit, then it is possible that an attempt could be made by authorities to retrieve all the funds that have been paid out as signature campaign fees as they have effectively promoted/advertised the service.
They should first go after Google for receiving money for scam advertising (which happens on a large scale, every single day).

This could end up being very messy for a lot of members in the forum that participated in their signature campaigns if the FBI and US justice department decide to force forum members to repay all the money they received from Chipmixer as signature campaign income.
Eh... seems like a waste of time. Not everyone is from the US, and I don't think mixers by themselves are illegal.

The paper on ChipMixer by the DoJ implies that their crimes were:

1. money laundering;
2. operating an unlicensed money-transmitting business;
3. identity theft.

Would CM be hunted if they specifically analyzed the coins received before mixing them? Like, imagine them contacting Chain analysis and asking if the coins a user sent came from a DNM, and if so, prompting the user for his KYC documents... (crime 1)

Would they be hunted if they disallowed US customers and enforced that by also taking KYC documents (thus not being an "unlicensed money-transmitting business" in the US?) (crime 2)

And last, if ChipMixer didn't register his PayPal accounts with bought/stolen documents? (crime 3)

https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1574581/download

I Remember when bitconnect ads were all over YouTube…the most obvious ponzi in a long time.  Problem is google is more powerful than the FBI, as the US allows for massive corps to fund political campaigns all they want , which means politicians are mostly just bought puppets, who can (and do) tell the FBI to leave certain companies alone. It’s the biggest joke in the US governmental system that this is still allowed.
legendary
Activity: 2534
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This was the scenario I found somewhat concerning because even though I did not participate in the Chipmixer signature campaign and I do not feel concern for anybody specific that promoted them, I feel a little concerned in general about the situation if the authorities try to use the Chipmixer incident to start a whole new trend and set a new precedent.

I don't know if anyone advertising chipmixer or any other mixer will now or ever face any penalties, but I will say that laws change. Check out these 2 stories involving FTX fiasco.

https://cryptopotato.com/ftx-youtube-influencers-slammed-with-class-action-lawsuit/

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/ftx-crypto-investors-sue-founder-sam-bankman-fried-celebrity-promoters-rcna57453

I'm sure none of these influencers/celebrities knew they were advertising what turned out to be a scam, but here they are facing possible legal issues.
legendary
Activity: 3234
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I wonder, if the Chipmixer signature campaign paid $70-$100 a week like the others, would there be so much concern and drama about the investigation of its participants or even about the forum itself?

The same forum members who, for some reason, were the loudest in demanding a pay rate reduction in the CM campaign, are now opening the champagne and celebrating what happened, while widely speculating that everyone who participated in the campaign will be identified and convicted. Human malice has no limits, and if the forum is taken over, maybe some of them will be the main witnesses in the prosecution of "criminals".

I have shared the link to their page on FB and Twitter a couple of times, should I be worried?

Of course, everyone who participated in any way, even mentioned CM in any context, will be held responsible. Maybe even those who gave merits to members of the campaign for their good posts, because that is also a form of support Roll Eyes
hero member
Activity: 2926
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I don't know if anyone advertising chipmixer or any other mixer will now or ever face any penalties, but I will say that laws change. Check out these 2 stories involving FTX fiasco.

https://cryptopotato.com/ftx-youtube-influencers-slammed-with-class-action-lawsuit/

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/ftx-crypto-investors-sue-founder-sam-bankman-fried-celebrity-promoters-rcna57453

I'm sure none of these influencers/celebrities knew they were advertising what turned out to be a scam, but here they are facing possible legal issues.

Anyone can file a suit but it's up to the court to decide if it's correct to include these promoters in the criminal suit against FTX, this is an investment scam, not an advertising-related platform and content issue it doesn't connect, section 230 is still good based on what I research on Chipmixer issue on Bitcointalk until repealed if they repeal it I don't think it will retroactive.
Promoters are still safe when it comes to platform and content but probably not when it comes to promotion and investment issues.
legendary
Activity: 3472
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As for paying back, there have been other mixers seized and nothing happened to the people wearing those sigs.
There have been scam ICO / IEO and everything else shut down by authorities and nothing happened to the people wearing those sigs.
There have been cases of casinos shut down by authorities and nothing happened to the people wearing those sigs.

And so on.
You are right those casinos and ICO/STO/IEO scams that made anonymous people behind them overnight multi-millionaires, how many of them were ever brought to appear in Courts to face justice?

If the general consensus in the forum is one of calm for those that participated in the signature campaign then that is precisely what is needed at this time. You are right, there has never been a case of any authorities asking signature campaign participants to repay monies. I hope the authorities do not start trying to do it now as a deterrent to stop people promoting mixers.

I wonder, if the Chipmixer signature campaign paid $70-$100 a week like the others, would there be so much concern and drama about the investigation of its participants or even about the forum itself?

I have shared the link to their page on FB and Twitter a couple of times, should I be worried?
legendary
Activity: 3808
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Contact @yahoo62278 on telegram for marketing
I don't know if anyone advertising chipmixer or any other mixer will now or ever face any penalties, but I will say that laws change. Check out these 2 stories involving FTX fiasco.

https://cryptopotato.com/ftx-youtube-influencers-slammed-with-class-action-lawsuit/

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/ftx-crypto-investors-sue-founder-sam-bankman-fried-celebrity-promoters-rcna57453

I'm sure none of these influencers/celebrities knew they were advertising what turned out to be a scam, but here they are facing possible legal issues.
hero member
Activity: 3024
Merit: 614
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You are right, there has never been a case of any authorities asking signature campaign participants to repay monies. I hope the authorities do not start trying to do it now as a deterrent to stop people promoting mixers.

There should be a mechanism in law for them to do that, authorities will go for the platform and never on a third-party platform or person, for lack of law that will hold liable those who promote mixers.

Physical laws and internet laws are very much different when it comes to marketing and advertising they cannot use the physical laws to apply on internet issues.
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