Topic: How wide reaching can the consequences of Chipmixer money laundering be? - page 4. (Read 1394 times)

Welcome 

They have already published their case against the owner/operator of Chipmixer therefore they probably will not be seeking to get any more information to strengthen their case against him.

I hope that settles that then. Others in the forum have quoted the same section of that law, I hope that settles the concerns.

You are right those casinos and ICO/STO/IEO scams that made anonymous people behind them overnight multi-millionaires, how many of them were ever brought to appear in Courts to face justice?

If the general consensus in the forum is one of calm for those that participated in the signature campaign then that is precisely what is needed at this time. You are right, there has never been a case of any authorities asking signature campaign participants to repay monies. I hope the authorities do not start trying to do it now as a deterrent to stop people promoting mixers.

Since a lot perhaps most people are not under FBI jurisdiction I don't think any are worried.
As for paying back, there have been other mixers seized and nothing happened to the people wearing those sigs.
There have been scam ICO / IEO and everything else shut down by authorities and nothing happened to the people wearing those sigs.
There have been cases of casinos shut down by authorities and nothing happened to the people wearing those sigs.

And so on.

-Dave

No, this isn't the end of mixing services. It will never be the end, whether deemed legal or illegal. Where one is taken down others will grow in it's place, likely Sinbad and Yo!Mix this time around.


Indeed, this is the most likely reasoning that the information wasn't useful, rather than it wasn't requested in the first place imo.


Bare in mind their entire investigation was based on IP and email addresses, as they used this to make connections to exchange/paypal accounts. So they wouldn't be requesting this information expecting to get a name and address, but more so in order to investigate that data and see where else it's used. Specifically a service that is connected to bank accounts or requests KYC, which is what they did.


There was the following data, just not the messages it seems (as uses end-to-end encryption if not mistake):

Topics about Bitcointalk connection to Chipmixer should end with this law

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_230

We are all speculating on something that is unlikely to happen when there is already a defense on the liability of any online platforms when it comes to third-party or user content unless this section 230 is repealed or taken down, online platform's liability is zero


Check out this video so we can understand this section 230 which created the internet into what it is today and stop dragging Bitcointalk to the Chipmixer mess.

Section 230: An Explanation of 'the Internet's Favorite Law'

Maybe because the information that will be presented is not useful? The forum collects basic information such as IP addresses and other simple data that does not lead to a general failure to reveal identity, so I do not think that they are looking for such information, but they always go to email service providers, Apple and Google.

More data they will get from members like @DarkStar_ or at least they may try to get it.

Strangely enough, no data was reported from Proton's email, although it was the main email that the team used.

I didn't aware of this seize of Chipmixer until I stumble on this thread so thanks OP for this thread, DarkStar_ said he doesn't have any contact with Chipmixer in the campaign thread and also now its marked as ended so this is the end of bitcoin mixing services? Many reputed sites were took down by government for knowingly or unknowingly mixing the coins used for illicit purposes so the same goes for Chipmixer as well?

I don't think this will not affect the campaign participants in anyway because the campaign rewards is negligible compared to the amount we are talking related to Chipmixer so the main investigation will be targeted towards huge amounts mixed using the platform.

That rumour was spread by a small number of conspiracy theorists, I doubted it then along with many others. I still do not believe Chipmixer was a honeypot.

I am not a legal expert but it really would be something strange if they tried to shut the forum down because the defence used by the websites you listed should suffice.

I hope you are right. They will probably ask or already have asked for information related to the Chipmixer account and hopefully that will be the end as far as them keeping this forum in mind is concerned.

I referenced this on previous page that authorities didn't publish that they requested information from bitcointalk, despite making a lot of references. At least, they didn't publish any evidence from any requests that is.


So they might well of done so (and probably did imo), but if the IPs were from VPN or otherwise obscured (which is very likely) then they didn't publish the results as part of investigation...

This is highly unlikely. The forum was just a means of communication used by ChipMixer, nothing more.
Furthermore, the forum administration has no connection to ChipMixer.

The worst that could happen (if it hasn't happened yet), is for the authorities to request information about the user who allegedly represented ChipMixer here on the forum.

It is highly unlikely any law enforcement agency in the US will go after Google (or any other US based tech giant) in any capacity unless it involved any competition laws or tax evasion.

Crypto is still relatively new when comparing to traditional finance and the unfortunate association and correlation people make between crypto and crime make it an easy target. That should not negate anything that Chipmixer has been accused of because if misuse has taken place the owner/operator of Chipmixer will probably be arrested and brought before a court to face charges which he will have every opportunity to challenge and defend.

I have to say though, seeing negative headlines again about crypto and criminal activity (such as money laundering) does not look good for those that know very little about crypto or are just taking their first steps in buying and trading.

Yes it does but if I recall correctly those conspiracy theories were not the majority view, they were far and few.

I never contemplated a scenario before where this forum could be viewed as a problem by any governmental agency but now that you mention it, would it really be a surprise if they seized the domain and shut down the forum?

There's been a lot of discussion about Bitcointalk's liability in the case of Chipmixer there's already a ruling on this and so far it is not yet reformed so we can say that it still applies to this case
I would like to cite


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_230

Eliminating this section 230 will reshape the internet and this is the same defense Facebook and other social media platforms uses to defend themselves against the attack and their liability for the content their users uploaded.

I rarely leave posts in reputation threads and this time with good intentions filled with curiosity I would like to ask a few questions regarding the ChipMixer website seizure.

First, I am sorry to hear about this incident. Secondly, if the alleged seizure of ChipMixer is due to the crimes as you say, namely;
1. money laundering;
2. running an unlicensed money-transmitting business;
3. identity theft.
Will the International authorities follow up with bitcointalk?

Thank you for your positive response.
https://www.reuters.com/technology/cybercriminals-crypto-platform-chipmixer-taken-down-says-europol-2023-03-15/

About indexing, if they make something available are they responsible if it ends up being scam related? Has that ever been tested in any Court?

When the authorities were busy chasing down so-called file sharing websites because movies and songs were being shared, they went after all of them but then left Google (because they owned Youtube) out of the picture when videos, music and movies all copyrighted were available for free on their platform.

I vaguely recall something about an investigation in to the material available on Youtube in the time of it being purchased and about lawsuits against Google but nothing happened partially because the corporations made deals with Google. I could have that wrong.

Oh yeah, there was such a rumor going around. I remember that!

But then again, the conspiracy theorists will just make up another conspiracy. For example, the newest conspiracy could be that the honey pot was discovered or they decided it was not viable anymore and it got shut down. And the entire seizure is just the FBI's excuse to make it look like it was never a honey pot.

Honestly, I did not really believe the first conspiracy theory so I am not going to believe any subsequent theories.

I don't know how is this going to be possible, it will be a subject of a very long debate and when it comes to internet marketing everything is on impression and reputation and not on liability.
Some websites do not allow gambling drugs or porn because they want to have a good reputation on the internet not because they are going to be prosecuted, and there are sites that allow it and even dedicated their sites to it, we have porn sites and cannabis sites which are considered ban in other countries.
The FBI and the Justice do not have jurisdiction when it comes to internet marketing and third-party advertisement, if there is a ruling, the big question is who are covered by this ruling, and how are they going to implement this.

I think this puts to rest those conspiracy theories about Chipmixer being a honeypot operated by government agencies.

I doubt this will affect regular users but there is a possibility they could try to shut down this forum. There is already a similar precedent when Deep Dot Web was seized by the FBI. It would be an overreach for them to go this route but if they really wanted to shut down BitcoinTalk this would be their best opportunity. As far as I'm aware Chipmixer didn't advertise anywhere else besides this forum.

Wait you are missing it. The domain registers are the hosting and domain providers, right? What about ICANN? Before everyone else, file a case against ICANN for creating the whole domain things LOL.

Wait! I think they need to ban the entire internet.

If internet was not there then we would not need ICANN. No ICANN, there were no need for domain registers. No domain registers, how would even buy Chipmixer? So let give all blame to the internet. Now since internet is illegal, all these people who are using internet are criminal. File a case against everyone in the world now LOL. We need a bigger space in jail! What? Now my 4 years girl will be jailed for using internet (watching YouTube)! Chipmixer MFs! What have you done to the world? 🤧

I am going back to my cave 🤣

There's going to be a huge debate about internet censorship if ever they fine signature campaign participants, they first have to prosecute and fine the domain registrar and the host hosting Chipmixer, and Google for indexing Chipmixer and everything related to why Chipmixer is online.

I don't know if there's a past ruling about liability being a third party on a site considered by US Justice Department and FBI as an offensive platform, but first, they have to prosecute and render a decision on Chipmixer before they will have long deliberation on internet marketing, which will involve internet giants like Facebook, Google and everything associated to the internet.

 

If only... I don't blame them for the indexing. The thing is that anyone can literally pay money to have a scam website linked at the top of the results. I can literally create bitcointalk100realnotscam.com and pay google so my website shows up at the top when someone googles for "bitcointalk".

That is one outcome, another could be that some could try to simply close shop and move on to other businesses as they could deem it a business not worth carrying on with if the threat of arrest and imprisonment looms over them all the time.

I remember when people were making the case that search engines and websites (especially Google/Youtube) that were allowing copyright material to be uploaded and linked should be shut down on the lines of pirate video websites therefore using the same analogy I understand why you said that. Google and other search engines allow any nonsense to be indexed and then shared without any fear yet the people who have probably become victims after finding scams and siphoning website directly from hyperlinks have no way to accuse them.

Exactly, we all condemn the use of illegal activity but we all would like to have privacy respected.

Thank you about "Coded Bias", I will try to check it out as soon as I have enough time to watch it.

Maybe theymos will make a comment on the subject. I hope he does provide clarity on your comments.

What a pathetic post

We all are waiting to see the outcome, let us see how far the FBI are willing to go link Chipmixer to any individual or organisation. As long as a fair and transparent investigation takes place that is all that is expected.

What a ridiculous post

I hope the issue stays to the point between FBI vs Chipmixer and that is all. If it gets to a point where campaign participants are targeted it would set a very dangerous precedent on the privacy of forum members and that would be unacceptable to most.