Topic: http://www.pyramining.com/ - Discussion thread (no advertising here) - page 24. (Read 318060 times)

And, there are some other P2Pool BTC 'networks' operating too... usually privately between friends... p2pool.info probably won't show them, as they aren't linking up with the primary network, while blockchain doesn't distinguish which p2pool nodes are connected to each other. It only considers, that the block was found by a p2pool node.

=squeak=

Which was my entire argument.

=squeak=

Blockchain.info is notoriously unreliable for displaying block origins so I wouldn't base anything off of that. And yes, the hashrate displayed on p2pool.info is the entire BTC p2pool network or at least the ones running a new enough version to connect to the rest of the network.

So your telling me that the entire p2pool network is only hovering around 200ths? That is extremely hard to believe.
According to blockchain.info/pools p2pool accounts for 1% of the network, currently is around .5% so where is the remaining .5%?
Does blockchain only show 1%+ or is there something else going on here.

Node size doesn't matter. Every node connects to each other and comes up with the combined hashrate displayed on p2pool.info. If any of them find a block, they all split the reward. P2pool.info itself has no miners on it, it's just a site for displaying statistics from the p2pool network.

No, variance is not worth worrying about because it can go either way at any time. There's no way of predicting it with any pool.

I am too, my concern is the size of this node. If there is another larger node that would give us faster block times I am fine with moving.
Again, its the ever increasing average time between blocks here that has me concerned.

Take a look at p2pool.info/luck we have been less than 100% as compared to the rest of the network since the end of january, this node is mining less btc than expected. How is this not concerning to anyone but me.
Can anyone else that knows how to read charts chime in here?

I'm all for staying with P2Pool to help decentralisation.  If you mine 24/7/365 then the variance will even its self out. 

Nothing to work out.
I am arguing that the intervals between payouts is getting longer because p2pool.info's relative size to the network while he keeps screaming variance and deal with it. Thats how a toddler has a debate, not an educated, intelligent adult.

As for pyramining, he is known for his lack of communication skills but as gektek said, while pyra is notoriously quite while he is working he always comes through on what he says.

woah squeaker and rd it looks like you guys have some things to sort out, but could someone give me ( nd many others who invested far more than me) an expanation why pyra is only intermittently updating? He could just post something here to reassure us 

What this all comes down to is the simple fact that you are ok with a payout every few days and growing as the difficulty increases.
Would you be ok with a payout every 7 days? How about once every 2 weeks?
I am not ok with that, having that much time between payouts slows down compounding.
I am invested in several other cloud mines that payout once a week, thats fine. But with this p2pool node the time between blocks and therefore payouts is increasing at a very rapid pace.
You will never convince me to be ok with a payout at an unknown and growing interval.

I was arguing, and your words backed me up, that the intervals between blocks are getting longer. How long until the outlier is 7 days? How long until its 14? This is what bothers me, I am for supporting p2pool, and don't you dare attempt to assume what I do and don't know. You obviously can't comprehend my point about technical analysis and because of that you assume that I have no idea how mining works. You are so full of yourself its not funny.

Here is how our discussion actually went.

ME: I prefer apples over oranges
You: Oranges are fruit too, if you dont like oranges man up and deal with it.
ME: Oranges are too acidic for me
You: Oranges are acidic, just deal with it.

Yes... it is still variance... and regardless of if you're on P2Pool, or a centralized pool, you're still going to be doing the same percentage of the hashpower for the whole network...

and yes... you're going ape-shit... the impression I have been getting from you this whole time is that you think the sky is falling, and you're running around like Chicken Little, in desperation, with only a limited understanding of what is actually happening around you. From the very first post I saw about you pushing to go to that pool.

How much has the total network hashpower gone up in the past 90 days that you referenced? And you're focusing so hard on an outlier, that may not even be an outlier now with today's network hashpower relative to our hash rate.

Also, much of that time on P2Pool, has been without Pyramining's hashpower included, as the mining hardware has been offline for a while. It is coming back online now, which will change things for P2Pool by a measurable degree.

Sorry, bud... but at no time during our back and forth, did I feel like we were having an "intelligent debate"... so that feeling was, unfortunately, one-sided on your part.

I'll end my participation on this particular topic, here.

Have a good weekend.

=squeak=

Wow, just wow.
I try to have an intelligent discussion about something and you interpret it as me going ape shit? How does that work?
If you stub your toe does that mean your leg needs amputated?

Not sure where to start with your response.
How can something be an outlier 12 hours ago, and now its not one?
Its an outlier because the longest time in the past 90+ days is 4days 7 hours. This last block was 25% longer than the longest block in recent history.

Your making my point for me. "Back in my day 24 hours was an outlier", and now we are at 5.5 days, thats a 500%+ growth in block times. How do you not see that this p2pool node is NOT keeping up with the network. I would be fine with us moving to another node that had more hashing power. When we hit 10 days for a block are you going to tell me thats just variance? What about when we hit 20? Are those going non outlier outliers as well?

Is it possible for you to discuss something intelligently instead of telling me I need to take my marbles and go home?

5.5 day block time, at the time, was probably an outlier sure, but now it isn't an outlier...

back when I started with P2Pool, a 24 hour block time, was an outlier...

You can't just keep thinking 5.5 and 6 day times as outliers without taking the rest into account... difficulty, and hashpower...

If the difficulty continues to rise faster than you can add hashpower, then those outlier times from before, begin to stop being outliers later... they become part of the norm.

What makes you think I don't get it? Read what I just said above...

You're going totally ape-shit over nothing... seriously... you are... if you can't intellectually and emotionally handle mining with a service that is not PPS based, then YOU, SHOULD, NOT, BE, HERE...

Suck it up... or take your marbles and go play somewhere else.

=squeak=

Decades of technical analysis tells me different.
As I said before, the 5.5 day block time was an outlier. The longest block we have had in the past 3 months was 4+days.
What I see with this last extreme block time is a signal that block times are likely to get even longer. In stock/commodities charts a serious spike up or down is usually the price testing a new high/low, its a sign that a change in direction is possible.

I don't want to sound rude or condescending, but what about the simple fact that p2pool.info is 1/240th of the network and shrinking don't you get??? The smaller p2pool.info is in relation to the network the more varied our block times are going to get.
Yes, this last block time could be an anomaly, and if it is then great, if its not and we assumed it is, we are leaving money on the table.

I really don't care what pool is used, as long as its large enough to give us some steady payouts.

I know very well how variance and luck works... I just think you, like so many others, still only think of it in the short-view...

We've had bad luck lately... and if we leave just because of that, when it flips around over a period of good luck (and it always does), we won't be there to capitalize on it.

1 retargetting period, is not a long-view.

=squeak=

If I am reading p2pool.info correctly they found a block 3 hours ago so something will trickle down after another 15 or so. In the mean time...I've been with Pyra long enough to see the pattern. Its not fun to be 'in the dark' for months on end but every single time Pyra comes through with exactly what was promised and every time people start blowing their tops the longer there is no word from Pyra. Point of this post? None really...just sayin love ya Pyra...keep up the good work! Cuz I know that not hearing from you is usually a good thing

UPDATE:

1. The ,,small'' hole is actually a black hole-> sorry for that 
2. Pyra used the new consulting service from Avalon on how to mine great profits with peoples mining hardware and telling them shit.
3. Sorry for trolling but I think pyra's communication behavior is very annoying!

please new update?

Squeaker: Posting a fresh reply to avoid going nuts on the quotes of quotes.

I know all about the difficulty increases, I was referring the fact that @ 5.5 days without a block we are in outlier territory that could be the start of a new trend. If we don't find a block in the next 36 hours, we will have a 20% smaller chance of finding one.  

How many days must we go with no block for you to be willing to see things from a different pov? Would 10 days do it or 20? Maybe a month? I don't like seeing money left on the table because we are essentially solomining. For the variance to even out we will have to be extremely lucky in the short-term, and the whole % of luck on blocks found is the gamblers fallacy. Finding or not finding a block overtime has no influence on when we will find the next block same as each roll of the dice has no impact on future rolls.

then keep it to yourself.We're already supporting a diversified ecosystem, I see no compelling reason why we need to change it.Yes, yes yes... the diff change comes up... every week we hear that... the diff change has been trending up for years... nothing to be alarmist about. This is normal, and your inability to relax and accept long-term statistics does not constitute a dire emergency situation on our part.

He's been using P2Pool for a very long time. Even when he had part of the hashpower pointing at a centralized pool, P2Pool was still part of the mining. I prefer he stay with P2Pool, because I'm tired of seeing pools and exchanges falling down and disappearing, and taking a loss every time it happens. P2Pool mitigates that risk a great deal, and 120 confirms also isn't a big deal.

You're just too uptight and impatient, and you just need to calm the fuck down already.I believe I just did suggest a multi-pool strategy, but I'm happy not suggesting it, as I am content with the current situation as it is. I'm not losing my mind over the variance temporarily going against us. I know it will even out in the long run.He doesn't need to go to Eligius for that. He can add in the NMC daemon, and why not throw in the DVC daemon on top of it for good measure, any time he wants to. P2Pool supports merge-mining, FYI...

Take a chill-pill, man... you're totally wigging out for no good reason...

=squeak=