HungerCoins Invest: The odds are ever in your favor. - page 7.

iamtheone

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Quote from: dooglus on September 01, 2012, 10:11:47 AM

Quote from: iamtheone on September 01, 2012, 03:13:56 AM

Thanks for your reply. For HC Invest, I plan to put different addresses for 0.25, 0.5, 1, and 5 bitcoins and the payout will be every 144 confirmations. I hope that will be fair with you. Do you agree?

Why not allow any amount between stated allowable min and max values, all to the same address? If the value is not acceptable, you treat it how you currently treat any non-0.25 value. I don't think you need to use different addresses or limit your users to certain round numbers. If you're willing to accept 'bets' of 5 BTC, why not also accept bets of 4.932345 BTC? That way people don't have to send multiple transactions.

You could even offer to split bets that exceed the maximum up into multiple bets of the maximum, and find some way to generate a different hash for each such bet. Perhaps by re-hashing the txid after appending the bet number to it. So instead of comparing the last digits of txid with block hash, you compare the last digits of sha256(txid + "0") for the first such bet, sha256(txid + "1") for the 2nd, etc. Then I can "invest" an arbitrary amount without spamming the blockchain.

Thanks doodlus

You really are smart. What do you think of the changes? I hope they will accept the 144 confirmations.

iamtheone

newbie

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A new announcement has been made in the bottom portion of the original post.
We now accept 0.25 to 10 bitcoins in this address: 1Fhoq69gYN5a61Yhv3Rc3ufCkDiryqybVK
Please read the original post.
Thanks.

Btw, the original address will still work unchanged.

dooglus

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Quote from: iamtheone on September 01, 2012, 03:13:56 AM

Thanks for your reply. For HC Invest, I plan to put different addresses for 0.25, 0.5, 1, and 5 bitcoins and the payout will be every 144 confirmations. I hope that will be fair with you. Do you agree?

Why not allow any amount between stated allowable min and max values, all to the same address? If the value is not acceptable, you treat it how you currently treat any non-0.25 value. I don't think you need to use different addresses or limit your users to certain round numbers. If you're willing to accept 'bets' of 5 BTC, why not also accept bets of 4.932345 BTC? That way people don't have to send multiple transactions.

You could even offer to split bets that exceed the maximum up into multiple bets of the maximum, and find some way to generate a different hash for each such bet. Perhaps by re-hashing the txid after appending the bet number to it. So instead of comparing the last digits of txid with block hash, you compare the last digits of sha256(txid + "0") for the first such bet, sha256(txid + "1") for the 2nd, etc. Then I can "invest" an arbitrary amount without spamming the blockchain.

iamtheone

newbie

Activity: 28

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Quote from: Gavin Andresen on September 01, 2012, 09:29:15 AM

Quote from: iamtheone on August 31, 2012, 08:22:49 PM

Quote from: Gavin Andresen on August 31, 2012, 12:37:56 PM

To whom are you lending the bitcoins you receive?

To those willing to borrow it. A lot of them in lending subforum.

How can Hunger Coin guarantee payback if you are lending the coins to people who may not pay YOU back?

I'm sorry, but "Hunger Invest" and "Hunger Lending" still sound like Ponzi schemes to me.

I'm sorry to hear that. All those people in the lending subforum who borrow and lend for profit must all be ponzi schemes too if we follow that logic. And we can also include everyone with credit cards too. Hmmmm, how then do we address it?

Gavin Andresen

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Chief Scientist

Quote from: iamtheone on August 31, 2012, 08:22:49 PM

Quote from: Gavin Andresen on August 31, 2012, 12:37:56 PM

To whom are you lending the bitcoins you receive?

To those willing to borrow it. A lot of them in lending subforum.

How can Hunger Coin guarantee payback if you are lending the coins to people who may not pay YOU back?

I'm sorry, but "Hunger Invest" and "Hunger Lending" still sound like Ponzi schemes to me.

iamtheone

newbie

Activity: 28

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Or you can altogether stop sending and wait for just our final product that will hopefully not be considered a bitcoin attack. Although the 144 confirmation increase will probably help a lot already easing the network since you can't reuse the same coin within 24 hours. I will just increase it to that level simply because I don't want to manually send it back. Thanks everyone.

iamtheone

newbie

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Hello everyone,

Thanks for taking part in this. I am increasing the confirmation to 144 in about 4 hours from now. It will mean your payment will be sent after about 24 hours from your bet. I would assume most of you will stop. It is still a good investment scheme for you but I'm sure it will greatly slow down the bitcoin attack scenario. This will still run indefinitely and other services will still be added for different amounts of bets/investments. 144 confirmations, I assume is a sustainable setting for us, although unattractive for you. If you stop sending, we would understand. Thanks for participating.

The original post will be edited to reflect this change in a while to provide sufficient warning. However, the actual change will be done 4 hours from now. It means all bets placed 4 hours from now shall follow a 24 hour window before it will be processed/returned. Thanks.

Watch out for roll outs of our other products:

HungerCoins Lottery
HungerCoins Invest
HungerCoins Lending

iamtheone

newbie

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I think this is only disruptive for now because of short confirmations and small amounts. I'm gradually increasing it anyway.

iamtheone

newbie

Activity: 28

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Quote from: Luke-Jr on September 01, 2012, 03:09:12 AM

Quote from: iamtheone on September 01, 2012, 03:04:32 AM

Help me out here, please. Are you telling me to stop all what I plan to do? Will you stop everyone trying to include bitcoin in their business?

Just implement what you need in a way that doesn't encourage people to abuse the network. If someone wants to spend 50 BTC on your service, let them send 50 BTC instead of demanding they chop it up in 200 pieces. In some cases (this one sounds like one), it makes sense to keep a side-side balance so a single withdrawl transaction can be made when they are done.

Quote from: iamtheone on September 01, 2012, 03:04:32 AM

I'm not a threat I believe. At least not yet. I'm not even sure if this micro project will even take off. This is an exploratory experiment. It's exciting but no guarantees.

The only reason I even found your service was because it was flooding #Bitcoin-Watch to the point of crowding out the normal traffic.

Quote from: iamtheone on September 01, 2012, 03:04:32 AM

May I know which programs/service you blacklisted?

The only other one that has been as disruptive so far is SatoshiDice.

Thanks for your reply. For HC Invest, I plan to put different addresses for 0.25, 0.5, 1, and 5 bitcoins and the payout will be every 144 confirmations. I hope that will be fair with you. Do you agree?

For HC Lottery, it's a single 0.10 or 0.25 bet and payout every 2 confirmations. This one, I'm not sure how disruptive. Any suggestions?

For HC Lending, well this is a slow one. We will lend probably on a weekly basis. Not finalized yet.

Luke-Jr

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Activity: 2576

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Quote from: iamtheone on September 01, 2012, 03:04:32 AM

Help me out here, please. Are you telling me to stop all what I plan to do? Will you stop everyone trying to include bitcoin in their business?

Just implement what you need in a way that doesn't encourage people to abuse the network. If someone wants to spend 50 BTC on your service, let them send 50 BTC instead of demanding they chop it up in 200 pieces. In some cases (this one sounds like one), it makes sense to keep a side-side balance so a single withdrawl transaction can be made when they are done.

Quote from: iamtheone on September 01, 2012, 03:04:32 AM

I'm not a threat I believe. At least not yet. I'm not even sure if this micro project will even take off. This is an exploratory experiment. It's exciting but no guarantees.

The only reason I even found your service was because it was flooding #Bitcoin-Watch to the point of crowding out the normal traffic.

Quote from: iamtheone on September 01, 2012, 03:04:32 AM

May I know which programs/service you blacklisted?

The only other one that has been as disruptive so far is SatoshiDice.

iamtheone

newbie

Activity: 28

Merit: 0

Quote from: iamtheone on September 01, 2012, 03:04:32 AM

Quote from: Luke-Jr on September 01, 2012, 02:55:17 AM

Quote from: iamtheone on September 01, 2012, 02:46:28 AM

Quote from: Luke-Jr on September 01, 2012, 02:30:27 AM

Please stop attacking Bitcoin. I don't really want to have to implement an address blacklist.

Seriously? Did you blacklist satoshidice and other lottery systems?

Yes, I've blacklisted other known attacks. (Edit: the blacklist is on the transaction relay/inclusion policy for the Eligius mining pool, #bitcoin-watch, and any other miners who have merged my patch, and not currently easily expanded to new addresses)

Quote from: iamtheone on September 01, 2012, 02:46:28 AM

I don't think that's the proper way to handle this technical issue.

It's the only way that can be done overnight. Continuing to attack the network, and building up more attacks is certainly not the way to handle it.

Quote from: iamtheone on September 01, 2012, 02:46:28 AM

Are you a bitcoin developer?

In fact, I'm the only developer so far (AFAIK) who has even tried to take a stab at fixing the problem you are exploiting (though I found it to be too complicated to fix than I have time for at the moment). But that's not really all that important: what matters is that this disrupts the network for everyone and has could trivially be done in a way that doesn't.

Help me out here, please. Are you telling me to stop all what I plan to do? Will you stop everyone trying to include bitcoin in their business? I'm not a threat I believe. At least not yet. I'm not even sure if this micro project will even take off. This is an exploratory experiment. It's exciting but no guarantees.
May I know which programs/services you blacklisted?

And how do you plan to stop those doing a custom receiving address and custom payout address per transaction? I can also do that.

iamtheone

newbie

Activity: 28

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Quote from: Luke-Jr on September 01, 2012, 02:55:17 AM

Quote from: iamtheone on September 01, 2012, 02:46:28 AM

Quote from: Luke-Jr on September 01, 2012, 02:30:27 AM

Please stop attacking Bitcoin. I don't really want to have to implement an address blacklist.

Seriously? Did you blacklist satoshidice and other lottery systems?

Yes, I've blacklisted other known attacks. (Edit: the blacklist is on the transaction relay/inclusion policy for the Eligius mining pool, #bitcoin-watch, and any other miners who have merged my patch, and not currently easily expanded to new addresses)

Quote from: iamtheone on September 01, 2012, 02:46:28 AM

I don't think that's the proper way to handle this technical issue.

It's the only way that can be done overnight. Continuing to attack the network, and building up more attacks is certainly not the way to handle it.

Quote from: iamtheone on September 01, 2012, 02:46:28 AM

Are you a bitcoin developer?

In fact, I'm the only developer so far (AFAIK) who has even tried to take a stab at fixing the problem you are exploiting (though I found it to be too complicated to fix than I have time for at the moment). But that's not really all that important: what matters is that this disrupts the network for everyone and has could trivially be done in a way that doesn't.

Help me out here, please. Are you telling me to stop all what I plan to do? Will you stop everyone trying to include bitcoin in their business? I'm not a threat I believe. At least not yet. I'm not even sure if this micro project will even take off. This is an exploratory experiment. It's exciting but no guarantees.
May I know which programs/service you blacklisted?

Luke-Jr

legendary

Activity: 2576

Merit: 1186

Quote from: iamtheone on September 01, 2012, 02:46:28 AM

Quote from: Luke-Jr on September 01, 2012, 02:30:27 AM

Please stop attacking Bitcoin. I don't really want to have to implement an address blacklist.

Seriously? Did you blacklist satoshidice and other lottery systems?

Yes, I've blacklisted other known attacks. (Edit: the blacklist is on the transaction relay/inclusion policy for the Eligius mining pool, #bitcoin-watch, and any other miners who have merged my patch, and not currently easily expanded to new addresses)

Quote from: iamtheone on September 01, 2012, 02:46:28 AM

I don't think that's the proper way to handle this technical issue.

It's the only way that can be done overnight. Continuing to attack the network, and building up more attacks is certainly not the way to handle it.

Quote from: iamtheone on September 01, 2012, 02:46:28 AM

Are you a bitcoin developer?

In fact, I'm the only developer so far (AFAIK) who has even tried to take a stab at fixing the problem you are exploiting (though I found it to be too complicated to fix than I have time for at the moment). But that's not really all that important: what matters is that this disrupts the network for everyone and has could trivially be done in a way that doesn't.

iamtheone

newbie

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Quote from: AndyRossy on September 01, 2012, 02:34:51 AM

Why not make it support either 0.25, or 1, 2 or 5 or something, with same %'s?

This is the plan. Different receiving addresses for different amounts/confirmations.

Currently finishing up the programs and we will be offering 3 different products:
HungerCoins Lottery
HungerCoins Invest
HungerCoins Lending

It will be individually rolled out as soon as each is ready.
This specific beta test will be used for HC Lottery and HC Invest. For HC Invest, the interests will just start on the conservative side (low interest payments per 24hours or 144 confirmations) then gradually increase it (effective interest) as the market becomes competitive.

iamtheone

newbie

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Quote from: Luke-Jr on September 01, 2012, 02:30:27 AM

Please stop attacking Bitcoin. I don't really want to have to implement an address blacklist.

Seriously? Did you blacklist satoshidice and other lottery systems? I'm currently preparing HungerCoins Lottery, HungerCoins Invest, and HungerCoins Lending programs based on this beta test since I want it rolled out and announced this weekend and I have to stop to answer you and ask you if you are seriously asking me that? And what would stop me from using custom receiving address and custom payout address for each bettor or for each transaction? I don't think that's the proper way to handle this technical issue. Are you a bitcoin developer? Let us hear from Gavin since I thought I heard him he does not have a problem with the technical side of it. I know he is worried with the intentions of HungerCoins and that is understandable. As I said it will take time.

AndyRossy

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Why not make it support either 0.25, or 1, 2 or 5 or something, with same %'s?

Luke-Jr

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Please stop attacking Bitcoin. I don't really want to have to implement an address blacklist.

iamtheone

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Quote from: VelvetLeaf on August 31, 2012, 10:59:14 PM

You recently raise the waiting time to be 7 confirmations.
So, the waiting time will be longer and longer.
I'd imagine later people will have to wait until 500 - 1000 confirmations before they receive their money back.

It will be increased until 144 or less in a gradual way. Maybe an additional 1 to 4 confirmations per day. 144 confirmations is about 24 hours.

Also, soon a new receiving address will be announced where the confirmations will be fixed to 2. Details will be announced in a new thread. It is a new lottery system slightly different than this.

VelvetLeaf

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You recently raise the waiting time to be 7 confirmations.
So, the waiting time will be longer and longer.
I'd imagine later people will have to wait until 500 - 1000 confirmations before they receive their money back.

iamtheone

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Quote from: Gavin Andresen on August 31, 2012, 12:37:56 PM

Quote from: iamtheone on August 31, 2012, 10:00:06 AM

I hope my explanation is clear and simple enough. Thanks.

No, I don't understand.

To whom are you lending the bitcoins you receive?

To those willing to borrow it. A lot of them in lending subforum. Besides, playing satoshi dice is an equivalent of borrowing at 1% interest or more every 10 seconds or less. And they just hit 1 million bets recently. That just means there is no problem on the lending side. There is no short supply of people who are willing to borrow. Visa and Mastercard proves that.

Topic: HungerCoins Invest: The odds are ever in your favor. - page 7. (Read 14613 times)