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Topic: [HYP] HyperStake | Generous Reward Staking | Advanced Staking Controls & Wallet - page 215. (Read 679335 times)

legendary
Activity: 1610
Merit: 1000
Crackpot Idealist
Thanks everyone. Makes sense now.
Silly question but say I've got a number of ~1600 blocks staking right now. Do the staked coins join each block once either the 1000 limit hits or 30 day limit hits (whichever happens first)?

I guess I'm asking is it an instant addition of coins to the wallet and then I need to re-calculate new blocks and repeat?

In the newest version of the wallet you can tell it what to do. It is called "splitstakethreshold" and is in the RPC commands.  If you set the threshold to 1,000 (default setting in new wallet) it means that it will take your full reward and old block amount, and if it is over 2,000 HYP it will make them into two blocks. If the full amount was less than 2,000 it would combine them as one block.

So you think of the threshold number as the minimum block size it will make if it splits.

and it saves to the wallet!!!! man I LOVE that... one less thing for me to forget to do!
legendary
Activity: 1330
Merit: 1000
Blockchain Developer
Thanks everyone. Makes sense now.
Silly question but say I've got a number of ~1600 blocks staking right now. Do the staked coins join each block once either the 1000 limit hits or 30 day limit hits (whichever happens first)?

I guess I'm asking is it an instant addition of coins to the wallet and then I need to re-calculate new blocks and repeat?

In the newest version of the wallet you can tell it what to do. It is called "splitstakethreshold" and is in the RPC commands.  If you set the threshold to 1,000 (default setting in new wallet) it means that it will take your full reward and old block amount, and if it is over 2,000 HYP it will make them into two blocks. If the full amount was less than 2,000 it would combine them as one block.

So you think of the threshold number as the minimum block size it will make if it splits.
legendary
Activity: 1133
Merit: 1050

It is most likely that we never will hit a full 960k in one day, because everyone will size down there coin blocks so that they won't hit the 1k limit....  

What does this mean?
Should I resize my blocks BEFORE they hit 1000?
Just that people will create block of smaller and smaller size as time goes by. Earlier in the game, you could have blocksize of 4200 with no much risk of hitting the limit. Now, even 3600 hits the limit and 3300 is not safe anymore. Personally, I use 2400 but one day, even 2400 will be too high.
This also means more and more blocks - because there is more coins and also because there is a bigger difficulty, which encourages to create more blocks of smaller size (rather that less blocks of bigger size). The network is even more secure! See my long post about this, inflation control and network security.

Bottom line: keep yourself informed about the optimal size at a given moment, the size other HYPsters considered the best according to their feedback.

For the moment:
  • Agressive: 4000
  • Normal: 3300
  • Conservative: 2400


Thanks everyone. Makes sense now.
Silly question but say I've got a number of ~1600 blocks staking right now. Do the staked coins join each block once either the 1000 limit hits or 30 day limit hits (whichever happens first)?

I guess I'm asking is it an instant addition of coins to the wallet and then I need to re-calculate new blocks and repeat?
legendary
Activity: 1330
Merit: 1000
Blockchain Developer
I would like to thank iDunk for providing a vanity address for HyperLoan:  pHypLoanFPWT6awN1TYRQ4v3wD3yY1n8KT

Certainly, he could have kept the private key (I imported the private key in my wallet - yes, you can exchange addresses and their content that way, check the importprivkey and dumpprivkey commands in help > debug > console). I will just trust him to be honest - plus, since he is the only one except me to know the privkey, if money disappear, it will be easy to locate the thief Smiley Finally, there is not that much money on HyperLoan, even if everyone gives the money back and less people ask for the HyperLoan.

So, thank you iDunk!

AWESOME VANITY ADDRESS - sent a small amount over to it  Cool
member
Activity: 100
Merit: 10

It is most likely that we never will hit a full 960k in one day, because everyone will size down there coin blocks so that they won't hit the 1k limit....  

What does this mean?
Should I resize my blocks BEFORE they hit 1000?

there is a maximum stake reward of 1000HYP per block, therefore the higher difficulty goes the longer your block takes to stake, and the more age your block grows the more chance you have of hitting the reward cap.

so in answer to your question, block sizes of around 2-3k HYP each are good right now, any more and you will hit the cap more often than not and any less and you risk losing compounding. Do not resize blocks if you see them getting towards the max reward as it will reset the age of them and you will have to wait another 8.8 days for it to be eligible to begin competing to stake.

Nice work on that graph presstab, should help some of the naysayers see the concept behind the long term inflation control
legendary
Activity: 1330
Merit: 1000
Blockchain Developer

It is most likely that we never will hit a full 960k in one day, because everyone will size down there coin blocks so that they won't hit the 1k limit....  

What does this mean?
Should I resize my blocks BEFORE they hit 1000?

It means that you want to have small enough coin blocks that they have a reasonable amount of time to accumulate stake reward before they will hit the limit.  Try using the built in stake calculator.  A coin block of 1,600 HYP can go for 30 days without hitting 1k reward. A coin block of 2,500 HYP will hit the max if it doesn't stake within 20 days.

So you decide whats best for you. It is a play between "how fast do I want to stake" and "how much do I want to avoid the max reward".
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 503
Monero Core Team

It is most likely that we never will hit a full 960k in one day, because everyone will size down there coin blocks so that they won't hit the 1k limit....  

What does this mean?
Should I resize my blocks BEFORE they hit 1000?
Just that people will create block of smaller and smaller size as time goes by. Earlier in the game, you could have blocksize of 4200 with no much risk of hitting the limit. Now, even 3600 hits the limit and 3300 is not safe anymore. Personally, I use 2400 but one day, even 2400 will be too high.
This also means more and more blocks - because there is more coins and also because there is a bigger difficulty, which encourages to create more blocks of smaller size (rather that less blocks of bigger size). The network is even more secure! See my long post about this, inflation control and network security.

Bottom line: keep yourself informed about the optimal size at a given moment, the size other HYPsters considered the best according to their feedback.

For the moment:
  • Agressive: 4000
  • Normal: 3300
  • Conservative: 2400
legendary
Activity: 1133
Merit: 1050

It is most likely that we never will hit a full 960k in one day, because everyone will size down there coin blocks so that they won't hit the 1k limit....  

What does this mean?
Should I resize my blocks BEFORE they hit 1000?
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 503
Monero Core Team
I would like to thank iDunk for providing a vanity address for HyperLoan:  pHypLoanFPWT6awN1TYRQ4v3wD3yY1n8KT

Certainly, he could have kept the private key (I imported the private key in my wallet - yes, you can exchange addresses and their content that way, check the importprivkey and dumpprivkey commands in help > debug > console). I will just trust him to be honest - plus, since he is the only one except me to know the privkey, if money disappear, it will be easy to locate the thief Smiley Finally, there is not that much money on HyperLoan, even if everyone gives the money back and less people ask for the HyperLoan.

So, thank you iDunk!
legendary
Activity: 1330
Merit: 1000
Blockchain Developer
I had actually checked out the thread before, but never realized this. So I read the OP and am not sure I fully understand. The money supply increases 750% per year? I can't really see how inflation is controlled in that case.

There is a maximum reward of 1,000 HYP per stake. Difficulty targets 1 block/stake per 90 seconds, this translates to 960 blocks/stake per day.  This difficulty targets it quite well, as of this moment the last 960 blocks is 1.01 days. If there are 960 blocks in one day, this means that if everyone stakes the maximum amount in one day, it will be 960k HYP added per day.  That is what we call "max generation" around here.

It is most likely that we never will hit a full 960k in one day, because everyone will size down there coin blocks so that they won't hit the 1k limit.  As time goes on, the coin supply grows larger, yet the max reward stays the same.  This means that overtime the coin supply grows less % everyday after we approach the max generation.

In the last day we have added about 610k HYP, about 63% of the maximum generation.

So the entire inflation control mechanism is based around time (long term), and a constant (max reward) becoming less and less compared to a variable (coin supply).

If we suppose that everyday from now on that max generation will occur (again this is unlikely, we are only 63% there so far), this is what the schedule of daily inflation rate will look like over the next two years.

hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 503
Monero Core Team
Thanks David, I'm longing for the loan
Sent. Don't forget to post on HyperLoan logs.
sr. member
Activity: 588
Merit: 285
Great coin and this Hyperloan project is a very good idea. I have created my address and sent you a PM David.
legendary
Activity: 1212
Merit: 1052
Thanks David, I'm longing for the loan
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 503
Monero Core Team
HyperLoan round 6
What is HyperLoan?HyperLoan logs

How to increase your chances:
  • Every week, you get a +1
  • Contributions give you an edge. This is subjective, you could win above a +10 with an excellent contribution
  • Being recognized as active or worthy by the community
  • Dedicated address in the list (not necessary to populate it with faucet): priority
  • Other?

How to decrease your chances:
  • Having less than 100 posts at the time registering will get a -1

Candidates:
  • +4 eatthetree3 - p9qwRDJz8Rm7Xexfq4BiYJNqJJfKLwcPWA (42 posts)
  • +4 kronicblazer (on IRC)
  • +4 blitz78
  • +4 coinmaster222
  • +4 worhiper_-_
  • +3 semidead (56 posts)
  • +2 johan11 (via PM)
  • +3 Tpruvot (via Wikia, a first!)
  • +1 diabanhxeo - pAXaGf6oNNJevd6pnQGoJP4UFU7mXbpNG6 (45 posts)
  • m33 - pKNBvmDS3UMce4epLNB8vJnhUFkmugN5rD (94 posts)
  • +1 shadowmoon (via PM)
  • PryptoMontreal (via PM) - pFE1BUZRTVferkv1EZfU2gBLcQEqNL5Bmg

(delisted: kliown for begging; mailmansDOGE for account stolen)

What you, as a winner (not just a candidate) will have to do:

1. Create a dedicated address (if this is not already done) in your wallet and post it on the forum, so that anyone can track the progress. If you don't know how to do so, just ask on the forum Smiley
2 Once you have received the 4K HYP, you will start posting on HyperLoan logs about your feedback. It can be just one posts several posts tracking your increasing understanding of HyperStake, questions... and of course, everyone can post there too.
3. At the end of the 30 days, you will send the principal (4k) back to the originating address pHypLoanFPWT6awN1TYRQ4v3wD3yY1n8KT (courtesy of iDunk).

Happy loaning, happy stacking!
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 503
Monero Core Team
This is Monday (well, this was yesterday), this is HyperLoan time

Winners are:
  • +4 Butoeskor - pD3ME8QQTYTB2eFDzYSxUtJ5FB3jjzaSTE
  • +4 Prints_  - p6Zu6ZXy5tW9ojgdxhwGcGF8vnBV74bHVj
  • +3 checkpoints16 - pS9dSbvsgvgWd7bambmNwXDMw2jBtx7wtt
  • +2 foroplus - p5j7fqtr8rr3faYRsyqSnvrSVz1eczhigH


Why some +3 or +2 did not win? Because they either did not give me their address and in one case because the candidate did not keep a promise.

What you, as a winner (not just a candidate) will have to do:
1. If not already done, create a dedicated address in your wallet and post it on the forum, so that anyone can track the progress. If you don't know how to do so, just ask on the forum Smiley
2 Once you have received the 4K HYP, you will start posting on HyperLoan logs about your feedback. It can be just one posts several posts tracking your increasing understanding of HyperStake, questions... and of course, everyone can post there too.
3. At the end of the 30 days, you will send the principal (4K) back to the originating address pHypLoanFPWT6awN1TYRQ4v3wD3yY1n8KT (courtesy of iDunk).

Happy loaning, happy stacking!
member
Activity: 91
Merit: 10
This coin has 750% annual interest??? That does not bode well for price stability. What's the idea here?

HYP is a very complex coin. As a full member im suprised your just hearing about it now. It has inflation control mechanisms so that inflation does not get out of control. As more coins are being minted the pos difficulty rises to slow inflation. Larger coin blocks are required to stake in the least time possible. Because larger coin blocks are required to stake in the least amount of time, this raises the demand and thus raises the price. Still keeping the 750% annual true. This is the short version. Youll find thousands of satisfied investors here, and the best devs in cryptoland. Youll find it VERY hard to find someone who actually holds Hyperstake that is disappointed. Read the thread, youll see.

Damn, I actually did a good job of explaining that well. hmm.. @presstab you have my permission to post this to the op. It might be an easy way for people to understand.

Vegas

I had actually checked out the thread before, but never realized this. So I read the OP and am not sure I fully understand. The money supply increases 750% per year? I can't really see how inflation is controlled in that case.

To make a long story short, inflation is controlled by a 1000 HYP max reward.
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
This coin has 750% annual interest??? That does not bode well for price stability. What's the idea here?

HYP is a very complex coin. As a full member im suprised your just hearing about it now. It has inflation control mechanisms so that inflation does not get out of control. As more coins are being minted the pos difficulty rises to slow inflation. Larger coin blocks are required to stake in the least time possible. Because larger coin blocks are required to stake in the least amount of time, this raises the demand and thus raises the price. Still keeping the 750% annual true. This is the short version. Youll find thousands of satisfied investors here, and the best devs in cryptoland. Youll find it VERY hard to find someone who actually holds Hyperstake that is disappointed. Read the thread, youll see.

Damn, I actually did a good job of explaining that well. hmm.. @presstab you have my permission to post this to the op. It might be an easy way for people to understand.

Vegas

I had actually checked out the thread before, but never realized this. So I read the OP and am not sure I fully understand. The money supply increases 750% per year? I can't really see how inflation is controlled in that case.
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 503
Monero Core Team
This coin has 750% annual interest??? That does not bode well for price stability. What's the idea here?

HYP is a very complex coin. As a full member im suprised your just hearing about it now. It has inflation control mechanisms so that inflation does not get out of control. As more coins are being minted the pos difficulty rises to slow inflation. Larger coin blocks are required to stake in the least time possible. Because larger coin blocks are required to stake in the least amount of time, this raises the demand and thus raises the price. Still keeping the 750% annual true. This is the short version. Youll find thousands of satisfied investors here, and the best devs in cryptoland. Youll find it VERY hard to find someone who actually holds Hyperstake that is disappointed. Read the thread, youll see.

Damn, I actually did a good job of explaining that well. hmm.. @presstab you have my permission to post this to the op. It might be an easy way for people to understand.

Vegas

What you are describing is closer to NVCS ("As more coins are being minted the pos difficulty rises to slow inflation"), although NVCS doesn't care about blocksize at all.

HyperStake works differently.

HyperStake gets away with the usual inflation control mechanism found in all pre-HYP high-PoS coin, a mechanism called NVCS (NoVaCoin Stake, after the coin which created it). Instead, it use two inflation control mechanisms: max subsidy (no more than 1000 HYP of reward per block, whatever the blocksize) and max generation (maximum of 960K HYP per day, whatever the amount of HYP staking).

The most dramatic inflation control is max generation but it had not kicked in yet (and the wiki page on max generation has a quote by Presstab on why it might not kick in for quite some time). max subsidy also controls inflation, mostly by lowering compounded interest (since it takes more time for you to get your reward), but it is mostly good for ensuring security of the network. The rest of my post will deal with max subsidy and so not that much with inflation control.

What is this "security of the network" thing? To understand it and why it matters, a bit of background in necessary here.
Contrary to proof-of-work, where the security of the network comes from miners using electricity to solve complex algorithms (like SHA256 for bitcoin, scrypt for Litecoin, X11 for Truckoin, the mother coin of HyperStake...), proof-of-stake only simulates these calculations. It requires much less electricity and can be done on a regular computer, which is much better for the planet (one of the main selling point of Peercoin, the first proof-of-stake) and is also better for fighting "mining centralisation" (where basically miners are more and more professionals and less and less ordinary citizens - the opposite of the dream of Satoshi in 2009).
Both PoW and PoS are meant to ensure the security of the network. A common misconception is that mining (and its PoS equivalent, staking) is meant to give you more money. This is not the case and the confusion is understandable, since the real-world mining (mining ore like gold and silver) is really meant for just for that - moar munnies. Instead, the real goal of PoW and PoS is to secure the network, to be sure that the network is reliable and can be trusted. The reward (block) is really only an economical incentive to encourage people to secure the network. Once again: goal is security; reward is just an incentive. When you mine a bitcoin (or stake a hyperstake), this is only the network telling you "thank you for securing me". That's all. Satoshi solved the Byzantine Generals problem by introducing an economic incentive to cryptography.
In cryptocurrency, security comes from... greed.

So, now, you shall have understood the network security. So, how does it relates to max subsidy?
The HyperStake network is as secure as its number of blocks. At the very beginning of HyperStake, in June, the network was so insecure that Presstab even considered hard forking for a shorter minimal generation - for 8.73 days, the network was pretty much insecure, because only stacking blocks secure the network, not all blocks.
The bigger the block, the faster you stake (minimum is 8.73 days, whatever the size of the block, though). So, the best strategy should be to have one huge block, to leave the wallet closed for a bit more than one week, to open it, to have the massive block stake in minutes, and to shut the wallet down again - or even worse, to merge the new coin with the oldest one (to have an even faster staking block) before shutting it down.
But there would be a problem here. Each address would have only one block. That means the network as a whole would have almost no block at all (remember, the size of the block doesn't matter, only the number of them does). The network would be bloody insecure (even less than in June 2014, at inception). Particularly considering that, contrary to hybrid PoW/PoS, there is no PoW to protect the network (but a much better carbon footprint than a PoW/PoS).
The is were max subsidy comes into play. Remember what I said on the aparté about network security: security comes from greed or, to put it in a more neutral way, security is achieved through an economic incentive.
max subsidy states that, whatever the size of your block, you won't get more than 1000 HYP as a reward. Suddenly, the best strategy is not anymore to have One Big Block™, but the opposite: to have blocks that won't "waste" potential. If your block is so large that, by the time of reward, it should have given you 1200 HYP, then you potentially lost 200 HYP. But if you instead split your block into two smaller blocks of half the size, then you get two times 600 HYP (which is below 1000 HYP per block). So you get your 1200 HYP.
The beauty of max subsidy is that it offers a win-win situation, for both the network (more block = more security) and for the user (more HYP).

Other coins, like BottleCaps and soon HoboNickels, use max subsidy. But as far as we know, HyperStake is the only coin to use max generation. HyperStake from the start is meant to be an experiment in economics and you can be sure we are very serious about experimenting. And this is far from the only experimentation we are running now - without even considering that HyperStake has the most advanced coin control wallet to date, read Endowment and HyperPool for instance.
legendary
Activity: 1610
Merit: 1003
"Yobit pump alert software" Link in my signature!
Its the truth. Simple as that. The fact im in the top 30 on the rich list does NOT make me biased  Tongue

Vegas
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 503
Monero Core Team
Just posted on my website a nice article about HYP to try to get the word out. I stole some graphics from  the op, hopefully Presstab wont mind : http://bitcoinlasvegas.net/hyperstake-hyp-750-annual-interest/
I like how your article on HyperStake is the most laudative of all the 5 coins you presented Smiley
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