Topic: I am very confused. - page 6. (Read 10235 times)

As a business owner, what makes me excited is increasing profits. You have to think from my point of view if you want me to use your system. I'm not some geek engineer whos excited by using a coolest tech. This is why visionary makes innovations succeed.

I like your chicken and egg thinking tho.

This pretty well sums it up.  Folks, let's not forget that we're trying to do something which has never been done before.  Is Bitcoin perfect in its present incarnation?  No, but I haven't seen anyone come forward with any other solution which maintains all of Bitcoin's positive attributes while addressing its major shortcomings (particularly the unstable exchange rate).  I'm sorry if some of you have lost real money in the past few months, but perhaps now is a good time to re-emphasize the "beta" nature of the Bitcoin software and ecosystem.

JoelKatz, Evorhees, and Gavin,

You got mad Bitcoin smarts. There are a bunch of rtards on this forum (anyone reading this is of course wicked brilliant, and beautiful if you are a lady, which you aren't...) so I'm glad to hear your well thought out and level-headed responses.

Aren't "THE SKY IS FALLING!" people annoying the crap out of you?

That's a good point. I don't think stable prices will ever be Bitcoin's strong point; however, this weakness is completly offset with its ease to take it to market and sell just as quick as you receive it. So, if I receive payment in bitcoin and choose to wait before selling. That loss is my fault and not neccessarily bitcoin as a currency.
The free market is already providing even better solutions than this. MtGox has a merchant service where you can receive payment in bitcoins that are immediatly converted to USD - there's no loss.

In my opionion, People tagging Bitcoin as dead comes from the continued decline in bitcoin prices.
For me, bitcoin prices comming back to reality is a huge win for Bitcoin.
It went way past its fundamental value. Now the market is more mature and you can short. hopefully, such a tragedy of super fast rising prices will never happen again.
Every one sees the failing pricess as the disease, but no one was complaining when prices were sky rocketing.
What goes up irrationally must come back down and speculators are punished.
Can't be too harsh though, I've lost a couple grand, but that was my expensive learning experience and I hold no anomosity towards this brilliant technology.

On second thought, maybe so many are tagging it as dead because they are too prideful to reconize they screwed up.
I know it took me a while.

This is the key, I've been doing everything I can to urge other leftist ideologues to adopt Bitcoin to create an egalitarian economy, it will take a few years to catch on but the ability of Bitcoin to ease redistribution of wealth will make it the inevitable choice once people tire of trying to work inside the same old broken system.

+1

So... what would convince you?  What if you could pay 10% of your expenses using bitcoin, and it cost you 1% less if you used bitcoin?

There are lots of chicken-and-egg problems that bitcoin has to overcome to compete with the dollars or euros we're all using now; I see two paths to bitcoin's success:

Maybe there are enough ideologically motivated people to form a self-sustaining economy. If even 1% of people find the idea of bitcoin attractive and started using it for 1% of their transactions that would still be huge.

Or maybe one or more 'killer apps' for bitcoin will emerge, giving it a foothold in certain markets. Maybe it will never expand beyond those markets, or maybe it'll slowly grow beyond them because of lower cost and higher tech.

If you're not excited by the idea of being an early adopter for what could be a massively influential idea, then you should probably come back in three or four years and either tell us "Told you it'd never work!" or join what should, by then, be a much more stable and easier-to-use system.

Sure you may be using to exchange goods or services online. That does not change the fact that in real life, you must use fiat currency to buy goods for living.

Like i said, convince me as a merchant to use your payment system while all my business expenses are in fiat currency.

Dude, I use it as a currency almost daily.

You seem to think that just because many receivers of the coins will desire dollars instead, that such will always be the case. You assume it's static, not realizing that as the economy matures the need to "convert back" lessens over time.

Bitcoin becomes a common currency gradually, and for some of us it is already very much a currency now. And no I'm not a large holder of coins, only about 200... I had more yesterday but I paid someone, and in fact I received most of them by doing work for other people. It's almost like... a currency! And no fees + transferable instantly around the world.

You cant be serious. Why do you refuse to see my point? Are you holding a large number of bitcoins? Yes we all know its usefulness, that is ability to send money anonymously. If you expect ppl to use bitcoin as a currency, you're dreaming.

Assume you have the payment system ready, convince me as a merchant to use your system without me exchange the coins back to fiat currency.

That was deep.

Yes.

BitMunchies.com

That doesn't prove anything though. Bitcoin's usefulness and value does not derive from it's proximity to the acquisition of food.

You know exactly what i meant, can you use bitcoin to put food on the table?

If not, you will have to fall back to fiat currency.

Bitcoin isnt a curreny, its a mean for transferring money which isnt gonna happen if the exchange is so volatile.

I would not say that at all.  Whoever believes someone who says that Bitcoin is dead may be.  Or not.  Time will tell.

how so if we cant even trade with such volatility? what does a payment system do without a transaction?
 

The people declaring it dead are (for the most part) the same people that have been declaring it dead for a long time. They declared it dead during the skyrocket bubble because it meant people will hoard it and never use it for currency. They declared it dead during large swings, because it was too volatile to use as currency. They've been declaring it dead every time it drops in price, because they assume it will drop forever.

Certainly, the falling price has shaken confidence. Those who are least confident in the technology have gotten scared. Some of us aren't so easily shaken. If you understand it as a payment system, instead of a speculative investment, then the price swings won't bother you as much.

Ragnar, don't mind them too much. It's a common reaction at the end of a speculative bubble.

Nobody knows whether Bitcoin will live, neither now nor did anyone five months ago. You will hear hundreds of short-sighted arguments why it "must fail". I'll name a few in the order they appeared.

"Deflation will make price rise over 9000 but then nobody can use it because everyone will only hoard"
"It was all a ponzi scheme, now the inventors are taking their money and running"
"Volatility is so high, nobody will ever use them for trade"

If you pay attention, you will see that these arguments aim at short time-scales. Nobody will hoard forever, initial distribution is unimportant once coins have moved around, and volatility is paid by bad speculators, which means it will decrease over time.

There are some problems with Bitcoin, but they can be fixed, and have nothing to do with the things the doomsayers name.

No isn't.  The price of the stock is a reflection of projected earnings and growth.

For example investors can have EXTREME confidence that a company will make $1 next year growing roughly 1% and the stock price will be very low.

The price of bitcoin is more like any other currency.  It's value is based on supply relative to demand.  Demand is based on transaction volume and supply is based on minting.  At the current rate of minting and transactions the market (which may be wrong) is saying that Bitcoin warrants a price ~$3.00 not $30.00.  If the block reward was 5 instead of 50 likely Bitcoin would be at $30.00.  Alternatively if transaction volume declines significantly (due to volatility making it too risky to use for exchange) then price of Bitcoin will fall (as supply is increasing and demand is falling).

Whoever says bitcoin is dead is an idiot

The price of a companies stock is investors confidence in future earnings.

Is the low price, and lowering of price, the Bitcoin's economy's confidence in the viability of it's future?