I don’t think bitcoin is now decentralized

acener

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Quote from: itsmyfirstaccount on December 22, 2023, 07:36:55 PM

About 20+ days ago ,I sent a transaction with 5000sats fee.

20+ !

It hasn’t been confirmed yet!

Ok to pay more ,confirmed faster.

But isn’t it ok for pay less confirm slower?

The miners are too centralized,and a lot of dust trans was made every day.

From A to A with high fee rate! Why does this transaction exist?

I don’t think a normal man would make such a nonsense transaction.

Does transaction fee make crypto centralized?
Bitcoin is still decentralized the only thing that change is the price of crypto and the amount for a faster confirmation.
Before sending out your crypto make sure that the transaction fee is enough so that it wouldn't be delayed.
If you are in a rush to get your Bitcoin then you should be prepared to pay the amount that is needed, if you couldn't afford it then use other crypto for a smaller fee.

EarnOnVictor

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Quote from: Timbulance on February 06, 2024, 03:38:14 AM

BTC is still decentralized in my opinion

You have the same view as mine, Bitcoin is decentralised and what the OP is trying to explain is a different issue entirely. Bitcoin is and remains the most decentralised cryptocurrency in the world and has been able to preserve it for years. That is why people and developers are always careful of scaling it better like what other altcoins are doing for better purposes and functions. They believe that leaving it as it is in most cases is the best answer to preserve its decentralization nature which is one of the core goals of Satoshi in creating the coin.

If they could be determined this much despite all the flaws noticed and what altcoins are enjoying with their upgrades, I think it's rather worth celebrating and not ridiculed.

Timbulance

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BTC is still decentralized in my opinion

Hamza2424

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The meme pool has nothing to do with the decentralization buddy, you are on the wrong track, if you are encountering network fees & network congestion you should look for the scalability solution because decentralization has nothing to do with it In the first few moments I thought this is gonna be the joke of the day but seems like Op by misconception created this thread.

I can consider myself one of the people who learned about how the Bitcoin network works and how network congestion-related problems are taken into count this day with the help of senior fellows, a few weeks ago, I was supposed to ask a few questions which I was expecting has been already covered before but in the flow of discussion on that thread I did asked them and of one senior explained things out, that the solution's I was asking were removed due to the misuse of the system from the meme pool Moral of the story is buddy if you find it difficult to know about the base concepts just ask don't blame.

icebar

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Because little transactions incur higher fees, it is particularly tough for those of us who do them. Individuals who charge more often work earlier in the day, while those who charge less frequently work later. I think that in order to lower these costs, we should all strive for a little more stability. once we achieve this, the transaction fees will also be lowered. mempool congestion will go down as we decrease transactions, and high transaction costs will go down as well.

Wakate

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Quote from: fredericktaylor on December 24, 2023, 12:01:49 AM

For those of us who do small transactions, the difficulty is especially high as small transactions are charged more.Those who are charging more are working earlier and those who are charging less are doing it later. In my opinion, to reduce these charges, we all need to be a little more stable and if we are stable, the transaction fees will be reduced. As we reduce transactions the mempool congestion will decrease and as congestion decreases high transaction fees will decrease.

A lot had been happening in the Bitcoin Blockchain making many people to look for alternative ways to send money to their love ones and make transactions. Many people had recovered alternative tokens that has low network fee like Tron network and Binance smart Chain because of what is happening currently. I believe this problem was creative by miners so that they would make more money from network fees congesting the Blockchain network. Something need to be done to reduce the network fee or else people might start dumping Bitcoin for some other cryptocurrencies just like how it happens when the Ethereum fee was very high that made many investors to dump the Ethereum Blockchain for some other chains that has low fee.

fullhdpixel

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Quote from: beerlover on December 25, 2023, 02:14:34 PM

I am pretty sure that in his wildest dreams he didn't dream that it would get this big. I mean he did assume that "some" people would use it, and he was around when it got a little bit attention as well, but I do not think that he had any idea that it would be this big.

We are talking about something that has peaked at 68k dollars, and we are talking about a trillion dollars in market cap as well, that is quarter or a bit less than the gold marketcap, imagine being gold, exist for thousands of years for payments, from early age bronze/silver/gold coins to now, and then something gets created and in less than 15 years it reaches quarter of your thousand year progress. This is why the fee's are high, because there was no system built in to be ready for something like this.

He knew that if it got attention, it would become very popular. I once saw somewhere in the forum a user had quoted a line from Satoshi where he said that after 10 years or so from now, there will either be a lot of transactions or users or there will be none. I don't remember the exact words but I think that was it. So, it means that he knew, that if Bitcoin starts spreading around, anyone who learns about it will start using it which is why he made that kind of prediction.

I also think that this congestion is not because of normal blockchain transactions because the network isn't this weak to not be able to handle transactions of its users but all these new integrations such as ordinals and stuff, are making a very big mess and normal Bitcoin users are suffering because of it.

boyptc

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The fees should even make you believe that Bitcoin is decentralized because no one controls the network. With network spam, everything is still possible as long as it successfully congested by the ordis and other brc20 tokens.

The miners are doing their job and they just mine and confirm transactions. If you'll pay slower then you know what's gonna happen with your transaction and do you think it's worth it to wait longer?

DYING_S0UL

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You can't blame the miners for this. It's only because of the brc20 ordinals that made the network congestion temporary. I know I know it sucks. The high transaction fees are unbearable now. Even some days ago I had to pay high transaction fee in order to confirm a transaction. So just wait a little bit for the network to cool down.

jeraldskie11

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Quote from: itsmyfirstaccount on December 22, 2023, 07:36:55 PM

About 20+ days ago ,I sent a transaction with 5000sats fee.

20+ !

It hasn’t been confirmed yet!

Ok to pay more ,confirmed faster.

But isn’t it ok for pay less confirm slower?

Your transaction will not be verified as long as the transaction congestion persists. I can't take 20 days of waiting for my money. I will instantly increase the cost if the transaction is still waiting after 3 days. If you don't really need cash, it's fine to let the blockchain fee equal yours, but keep in mind that we don't know when the fee will return to normal, and while we wait, the price may drop impulsively.

NewRanger

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Quote from: itsmyfirstaccount on December 22, 2023, 07:36:55 PM

The miners are too centralized,and a lot of dust trans was made every day.

Prices can vary a lot but it felt like, it was pretty sketchy when we first did it, but I didn't really have a problem with it. As long as we make the right choice and buy the right coins, it will be a good decision, but when we get caught in the problem of increasing fees on the network, it may be another disaster for us.

Let's pay attention for now, many people already know how useful digital currencies like BTC are in many fields and this is not a threat, but we are also required to balance various factors including convenience and transaction costs but it is also a good idea to always update and learn about it. the gap too.

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Quote from: itsmyfirstaccount on December 22, 2023, 07:36:55 PM

About 20+ days ago ,I sent a transaction with 5000sats fee.

20+ !

It hasn’t been confirmed yet!

Ok to pay more ,confirmed faster.

But isn’t it ok for pay less confirm slower?

Of course it is not ideal how can we use a cryptocurrency in a much more regular basis if we can not even make transactions without having to wait this long or pay a much higher fee but it is this way because of how much activity there is currently lots of users are also waiting to get their transactions validated

Quote

The miners are too centralized,

I am having a hard time understanding what you mean by this to be centralized is to have a certain power centered or managed in one place i am trying to understand how it relates to miners when they also do not have a choice

Dunamisx

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Quote from: itsmyfirstaccount on December 22, 2023, 07:36:55 PM

Ok to pay more ,confirmed faster.

But isn’t it ok for pay less confirm slower?

It's as exactly as you've said, pay high and get confirmed quicker and pay lower and get delay in confirmation time, but it all doesn't end here, either of the part you choose has a remedy as well, you can choose to pump your fee, make adjustments, or use mining pool to accelerate your transaction.

Quote from: itsmyfirstaccount on December 22, 2023, 07:36:55 PM

The miners are too centralized,and a lot of dust trans was made every day.

I think in life everything has time and season, maybe this could just be their own peak time, they have to enjoy it while it last.

kentrolla

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Quote from: bluebit25 on December 24, 2023, 12:41:12 AM

Quote from: itsmyfirstaccount on December 22, 2023, 07:36:55 PM

About 20+ days ago ,I sent a transaction with 5000sats fee.

20+ !

It hasn’t been confirmed yet!

Ok to pay more ,confirmed faster.

But isn’t it ok for pay less confirm slower?

The miners are too centralized,and a lot of dust trans was made every day.

From A to A with high fee rate! Why does this transaction exist?

I don’t think a normal man would make such a nonsense transaction.

So what do you think is decentralization? Bitcoin does not exist just to serve you, you should understand that first and are you willing to learn more about transactions that you are not willing to pay more fees to speed up? I've seen the "fee" issue brought up a lot recently and people keep blaming it for being expensive and slow... Let's better understand the appeal of bitcoin that many people are still willing and trusting in it. I have no intention of using bitcoin in all daily activities at the moment, but these problems will be solved if acceptance becomes more widespread. That in itself is decentralization, so if you can't accept it then you are probably moving towards centralization.

How is here a correlation between higher fees and decentralization? If we don't accept the higher fee that doesn't mean we are rejecting decentralization but it just means that these charges are atrocious and unacceptable and cannot be justified. Bitcoin is for everyone and not just for those who make large transactions and I find it really odd why people don't accept the pain point over here and start lecturing on how we can avoid transactions when the network is congested, etc. Instead of diverting from this issue there should be steps taken to reduce these charges.

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Quote from: Twentyonepaylots on December 25, 2023, 02:02:25 PM

Quote from: fredericktaylor on December 24, 2023, 12:01:49 AM

For those of us who do small transactions, the difficulty is especially high as small transactions are charged more.Those who are charging more are working earlier and those who are charging less are doing it later. In my opinion, to reduce these charges, we all need to be a little more stable and if we are stable, the transaction fees will be reduced.

The problem with decentralized system is that it cannot attain stability, you cannot control anything so you just go with how the system/network flow. It doesn't matter how huge or small the amount is, if depends on the miners who create blocks for the next one, and as a decentralized network you cannot control the miner to go first with your transaction, and if you were in their shoes you would go with higher payment typically with huge amount of money.

Quote from: fredericktaylor on December 24, 2023, 12:01:49 AM

As we reduce transactions the mempool congestion will decrease and as congestion decreases high transaction fees will decrease.

I mean how do we reduce the transactions? we are decentralized. You cannot just tell anyone to stop doing transaction for a moment.

Everything has their cons and pros. One of the disadvantages of a decentralized system is control. Let's assume that bitcoin is a centralized system, it will be very easy to stop incoming transactions for few days, confirm all pending transactions, ban the ordinance and clear all dust in the network. But with the decentralized nature of bitcoin, we do nothing than to wish untill it comes to pass. I know that mempool congestion is part of the ecosystem. It is not a new thing to us, but this time around it is persisting and if the situation doesn't calm before halving, it will be so disastrous when the bitcoin price booms.

How sure are we that a very big misunderstanding will not happen in the bitcoin network that will lead to a hard fork. Just check out the SEC and ETF approval, halving and bull run. We should be expecting the worse

KiaKia

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This has nothing to do with decentralized part of Bitcoin, out of the box Bitcoin is created decentralized and to protect the decentralized part it's on the adopters, well unfortunately people don't care, keeping your Bitcoin on any exchange means it's not a decentralize practice, and it's the same if you keep your private key online.

Bitcoin is decentralized and the way you use it will either keep it decentralized or centralized, that's in your hands, the problem you are talking about is high transaction fee and that's not about the decentralisation of Bitcoin.

What you don't know is, to keep the work on going miners need to be happy and that's what we are getting now with ordinals, I hope some solution comes that will make bitcoin a little bit easier to accumulate.

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Quote from: yhiaali3 on December 25, 2023, 01:04:33 PM

Quote from: redsun114 on December 25, 2023, 11:33:43 AM

Satoshi probably created the chain and the whole system this way because he wanted to give users the freedom to choose how much they want to pay as the fees for each transaction so that if a person wants to pay less and wait longer can let those who are willing to pay higher to get it done quickly go first.

Yes, I agree with you that the system created by Satoshi has very good features, but when it comes to paying fees to the point of madness, this must stop.

I mean, it's okay to pay more fees if you don't want to wait long, but when there is a crazy race to increase fees to speed up transactions and transactions with lower fees stand in a long and boring waiting line, this wonderful system turns into chaos and this freedom to increase fees becomes a nightmare for others (who They do not want to increase fees).

I am pretty sure that in his wildest dreams he didn't dream that it would get this big. I mean he did assume that "some" people would use it, and he was around when it got a little bit attention as well, but I do not think that he had any idea that it would be this big.

We are talking about something that has peaked at 68k dollars, and we are talking about a trillion dollars in market cap as well, that is quarter or a bit less than the gold marketcap, imagine being gold, exist for thousands of years for payments, from early age bronze/silver/gold coins to now, and then something gets created and in less than 15 years it reaches quarter of your thousand year progress. This is why the fee's are high, because there was no system built in to be ready for something like this.

Twentyonepaylots

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Quote from: fredericktaylor on December 24, 2023, 12:01:49 AM

For those of us who do small transactions, the difficulty is especially high as small transactions are charged more.Those who are charging more are working earlier and those who are charging less are doing it later. In my opinion, to reduce these charges, we all need to be a little more stable and if we are stable, the transaction fees will be reduced.

The problem with decentralized system is that it cannot attain stability, you cannot control anything so you just go with how the system/network flow. It doesn't matter how huge or small the amount is, if depends on the miners who create blocks for the next one, and as a decentralized network you cannot control the miner to go first with your transaction, and if you were in their shoes you would go with higher payment typically with huge amount of money.

Quote from: fredericktaylor on December 24, 2023, 12:01:49 AM

As we reduce transactions the mempool congestion will decrease and as congestion decreases high transaction fees will decrease.

I mean how do we reduce the transactions? we are decentralized. You cannot just tell anyone to stop doing transaction for a moment.

GeorgeJohn

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This issues of unconfirmed transmission has been an issue of bitcoin transaction over two weeks now, even I have come across of people complaining of dust error, and the reason such happened is because of mempool, so since it's congested I believe that bitcoin transaction fee will be higher, sometimes when you experience dust error in your bitcoin transaction it's topically mean that bitcoin that is the wallet you want to transfer is very low to be transferred to another wallet, so that is while something of that nature manifest, so it's the developers that should be blame concerning difficulties experience of bitcoin transaction.

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Quote from: redsun114 on December 25, 2023, 11:33:43 AM

Quote from: yhiaali3 on December 22, 2023, 10:24:08 PM

In my opinion, this protocol should be changed so that miners are not able to choose the transactions with the highest fees, but rather have to execute transactions in their chronological order. This can reduce the mad race to raise fees to speed up the confirmation of transactions.

Satoshi probably created the chain and the whole system this way because he wanted to give users the freedom to choose how much they want to pay as the fees for each transaction so that if a person wants to pay less and wait longer can let those who are willing to pay higher to get it done quickly go first.

Yes, I agree with you that the system created by Satoshi has very good features, but when it comes to paying fees to the point of madness, this must stop.

I mean, it's okay to pay more fees if you don't want to wait long, but when there is a crazy race to increase fees to speed up transactions and transactions with lower fees stand in a long and boring waiting line, this wonderful system turns into chaos and this freedom to increase fees becomes a nightmare for others (who They do not want to increase fees).

Topic: I don’t think bitcoin is now decentralized (Read 522 times)