Topic: I might start selling bitcoin for Paypal, call me crazy (Read 2796 times)

Maybe you can (or already have) test your methods with someone you know. I think including a physical product is a good idea. Good luck! 

How did you get scammed buying with Paypal? I thought Paypal were on the buyer's side?

Escrow may help, but the 6mth chargeback policy is the killer.

You need to get around that by accepting payments as gifts, which I believe cannot be done via Credit card, and therefore can't be charged-back even through a credit card company.
If I remember correctly, paypal gifts aren't able to be charged-back.

People use this method to sell accounts and other digital items without fees or the possibility of a chargeback.
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If you skirt the polices in place, you also enter the realm of breaching policy.

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Though what you're doing would be very useful if you have a good reputation/trust system and also lucrative, in volume transactions.

I would love to buy bitcoin with paypal & I've only just discovered shop.crowdcoin.biz and have been holding back, but now is the time to invest in coin...

not sure if this applies.


https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/acceptableuse-full

You may not use the PayPal service for activities that:

relate to transactions involving  ...(d) stolen goods including digital and virtual goods

relate to transactions that ... (h) involve currency exchanges or check cashing businesses

This was also being sent out to paypal member selling virtual currency back in may.

Hello ,

We have reviewed your PayPal account and found that you are operating as an
e-currency dealer/exchanger including the sale of electronic media of
exchange (such as electronic money or digital currency). Per our current
Acceptable Use Policy for Money Service Businesses, PayPal may not be used
to operate a currency exchange, bureau de change or check cashing business
including the sale of BitCoins.

To continue using your PayPal account, we need some additional information
from you. Keep in mind that we have placed a limitation on your PayPal
account, and this limitation will remain until we receive and review this
information. Please provide us with the following:

   • A brief affidavit stating that you understand and will comply with
PayPal's terms and conditions.
   • A listing of the products and services you offer.
   • A detailed explanation of your business model.
   • A list of all URLs or websites that will be used to receive payments.
   • The type of payments you will send and receive, including the type of
goods or services you will accept payments for.

Below you will find suggested affidavit language. Please make sure that the
requested affidavit is signed and notarized.

I the undersigned do affirm that I understand and will comply with PayPal's
policy regarding the use of PayPal Accounts to operate an e-currency
exchange business. I understand that PayPal may not be used to operate a
currency exchange, bureau de change or check cashing business. I further
affirm that any further detected violation of the policy may result in the
immediate closure of, or restriction to access to the account.

Please log in to your account and go to the Resolution Center to find out
what you need to do. Your account will remain limited until the issue is
resolved.

Additionally, in the future, if we find that your account is acting as a
dealer/exchanger, we will need to sever our business relationship with you.

We look forward to hearing from you and thank you for choosing PayPal as
your business partner.

Sincerely,
Robert
PayPal Compliance Department
PayPal, an eBay Company

Paypal may have changed their terms of services since the Presidents of both Paypal and Ebay have publicly expressed interest in bitcoin.

Skrill/Moneybookers has also been know to shut down account selling virtual currency.

This is me calling you crazy

Whenever I bought, I bought via eBay using Paypal, and I'm thinking to do the same, because you get paid very well over there, but reading here has just confused me.

Ok, how about selling via Skrill/Moneybookers, anyone has tried that?

Also, where does it say Paypal will ban your account, if you sell BTC? I searched the TOS and couldn't find anything, as it's not like Skrill or whatever.

I exchanged on Okay and they give you dirt cheap rates and will never use them again!

Looking forward to see how it works for you, so that I'll start doing so too 

I might even start by selling here with as small as 0.001, then I'll jump to 0.1 when I can build a list of trusted buyers.

Good luck everybody.

Paypal is one of the BEST ways to buy and sell bitcoin.  But as soon as paypal figures out what you are doing they will terminate your account and freeze any funds in your account and linked bank / card for up to 180 day.

If you could somehow guarantee not dealing with the ton of scammers you are definitely going to come into contact with, I think you could make quite a bit of money selling bitcoin with paypal. Just remember that you also have to worry about Paypal just as much as the scammers though.

Yes - that's the lapse in logic. People use bitcoin due to the semi-anonymity, yet sniffle when paypal has no choice but to kill accounts because a semi-anonymous currency is untrackable.


Think of it the other way, how would paypal ever decide who was right with a bitcoin transaction without requiring authentication of some sort, ie, knowing 2 addresses on both ends and being able to witness the transaction as well as an input "this is a deal of X$ for Y bitcoins" field?

They have every right to not support a currency/valuestore/method that undermines their business. In order for them to make it non-fraudulent they'd have to perform extensive credit check / audits beforehand (slowing down the process) and build an interface as I've mentioned to track the payment.

Now explain why they'd do all that, if support and adoption of bitcoin threatens their livelihood in the market? To take an extra cut off bitcoin sales, perhaps?


Paypal is clearly anti-bitcoin, until it can monetize it and then it will be pro-bitcoin very fast when it adds an authentication layer on top of it that people opt-in to, just like they've opted in to these other exchanges. The problem there isn't paypal, its the credit card companies and banks that bitcoin would kill off if paypal adopted this strategy.

You're crazy. Nah not really, I commend you for having a go! I'm sorry, not read all the thread as too tired and about to hit the sack. But just posting so I can come back easy and read how you got on!

Thanks

Thank you for criticism, it is always good to keep feet on the ground. I have to charge high premiums for first purchases, because unfortunately newcomers are more probably to be scammers. Returning customers and perhaps trusted members are getting discounted premiums (8, 6, 4, 2, 1)%. I will probably start with 10% and then lower the premium every time. My fee policy is open for suggestions.

1. I sell bitcoins for PayPal balance money and this experiment might scale in the future, if I have the time and resources.
2. I hope not since most PayPal sellers offer higher premium.
3. Paypal is instant, therefore attractive way to buy bitcoins. I start with small amounts building the trust.
4. My precautions are theoretically bulletproof, but as said I will test this with small amounts. "1 in 4" is a rough estimate: every scammer costs me 20$ and with average new purchases of 50$ it will be covered.
5. Adjusting the fee with amount of scammers and identifying reliable people among the community is essential.

This is a good point, thank you. I had to further develop my model, but now things look even better. I implemented a trust level system and fees are calculated using the system.

I agree with this, people are demonizing PayPal as an anti-bitcoin, but they are just doing their job.

You're not being very logical.

1. You create a crappy deal to sell through PayPal.
2. This only filters out legitimate purchasers, as ...
3. at that point they would be safer going with a legit exchange versus using paypal. one dispute and your paypal is locked and if you had anything pending going on they're screwed.
4. on your end paypal fees are to "eat fraud" that's why its more expensive. Except 10-20% will come nowhere near the costs you'd likely take on. Another logical flaw... it's not "1 in 4" to be profitable. You're on the winning end with the bitcoin holding. Its the person giving you money that don't know if they'll ever see the bitcoin, and they can't protest it. without losing their account / locking it because it was for bitcoin. Oops. I give you paypal, you never send, I can't report it. You can send, I can report it if I have a throwaway account. That's not a "rate" that's a "once it happens the first time you lose the account."
5. in the end you will only end up with people who don't care what your fee is because they're scamming you.


There are others on this board who have done paypal businesses with no problems. But their fees were nearly zero. And they were huge presences on this board and in various other channels that other huge presences would vouch for.


The problem isn't paypal. They have no way of knowing what you're doing. I send money for rent to my friend at zero fee. They don't know what I'm renting or that it's not a gift, etc. The problem is when someone scams you paypal will cut you off no questions asked if you're honest regarding what its about.

The position the other sellers were in was "I'll use paypal until they fuck up, and then it is done."

Their volume was so large that it was paypal's loss to not use them, essentially.

Yeah, they're a bit bipolar about it.

This is the weirdest coincidence I've faced for awhile.

I have read pretty much half the threads about PayPal's risks and my method is something that either forces PayPal to accept blockchain as a verification method or costs them a lot of money. If every fourth customer is a scammer then the business is not profitable. Only problem is, that the amount of work to make one transaction is humongous.

EDIT: Currently I just need to know, if the seller is somehow capable of seeing how the buyer paid for the item. I could accept only payments paid by PayPal balance.

That's about stupid. Electronic proof of delivery is a cursory requirement to seller protection, but PayPal can unilaterally decide to refund when the seller returns the "item" with their own proof of delivery. Or refund whenever they want. Or pull money out of your account because payment was "unauthorized" or charged back. Or close your account and freeze your funds.

Your PayPal adversary is fallen-state cybercriminals who have stolen PayPal account credentials and are looking for suckers to send them something irreversible like Bitcoin.

Click the NEWBIE README sticky, and go to the linked PayPal thread. You're gonna have a bad time.

This mean you should not use Paypal, you can loose your money anytime

One would say it cant happen - but it can

Maybe I confused it... is this not your site? https://bitp.al/ 

I have traded a couple of times with BTC and paypal. There were times, when paypal approwed chargeback, i had lost a lot of money. Too bad this community has a lot of scamers. Paypal has a strange attitude to anything related to BTC aswell.

Advertised? I'm not up and running yet, this is currently not my n:o one priority.

Yeah, I probably implement shipping of a postcard -method, too. Thank you for pointing out deep web, didn't know the market has expanded that much.