Topic: Idena is the first Proof-of-Person Blockchain - page 121. (Read 44019 times)

OK so I'm an official Idena newbie now, one epoch old 
Must say that initial process is quite fun and not all that hard to grasp.
I have this one concern though; what happens if some douchebag starts to create completely nonsensical captchas, on purpose of course? Is there any fail safe against this? Would be a shame if someone was surprised by impossible captcha from the day one. 

No, you don't have to watch ads to mine the coins.
Watching ads is the possible way to bring demand for the coin into the Sybil protected network.


Unfortunately it might not work. There is no way to prove the ads consumtion without establishing a trust. People may click ads without intention to consume it. Advertizer may also decline to pay for the ads consumption.

So you mine coins by watching ads and solving captchas?

And why would you democratize earnings by burning coins from advertisers rather than paying them to consumers of ads?

Invitation code sent. Please check your PM.
Invitation code itself doesn’t make your node unique. It allows you to take part in the online validation party.
If you manage to solve flips in time your node becomes validated as unique.

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Congrats!!


Bitcoin has a strong economic incentive to concentrate mining in the areas with cheap electricity. This makes other players leave.
Essentially there is no equal access to mining. The fact is the mining is the closed club both for PoW and PoS.

In contrast PoP allows for the equal access to minining.
Nothing else is needed to prove your humanness and uniqness.

You're right, there is no way to fight against fabric halls in China. But good news is the bad actors can only grow extensively. They have to coordinate more and more workers at the same place at the same time. Coordination costs might grow nonlineral.


Crypto UBI is one of the possible use cases for Idena since the list of validated participants is shared on the blockchain.
Any centralized service can use it for its purposes.

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Idena democritizes mining: any person on the planet (who able to solve flips) can mine the coins.

But what is the economy behind the coin?

Consider the use case of Sybil-protected maketing on the blockchain
1. Assume that Idena participants voluntarily agree to consume ads published on the blockchain by an advertiser.
2. However such an advertiser has to burn coins in order to reach a certain group of users attention.
3. Burnt coins are removed from the total supply. Thus multiple advertisers competing with each others will always have a shortage of coins.
4. Due to that assumption the newly minted coins which are equaly distributed amoung the people and can be sold to advertisers.

Is there anything the mined coins can be used for? What's the economy behind the coin? Why should anyone actually *use* Idena?

i am proud that i finally found the time to make it three times in a row to the validation time window without beeing terminated  


Sounds good, but... - how can you be sure that those new PoP-Accounts dont concentrate all in the same fabric halls in china again?  Or - more likely when it comes to cost of human work - this time in nigeria or other countries known for their strong "airdrop mafia", monopolizing multiple accounts which are keeped alive by random third world workers from the street?

Those kind of bad actors allready seem to have killed mannabase.com (a centralized so called cryptoubi-project of 2016/2017, lacking sybil restistance) with thousands of fake-accounts, even while mannabase was worth nearly nothing on fiat exchange.

Ubic.network has different interesting approach to avoid sybil attacks, using proof of e-passport and thereby proof of nationality - maybe you could distribute your idena-PoP more globaly, using something like UBIC as an optional second layer?

There's an error in the OP, I guess it should be flips  just saying.
Looks quite interesting, I think I will try this out, can have my invite code PM'ed here?
Are those invite codes, the only method for keeping nodes unique or the system is also looking at IP addresses, stuff like that?

Did you try to use lowpower parameter to run the node? This should help for you:
https://idena.io/?view=guide#guide-issues-1


You can close the wallet if you don't want to mine the coins all the time.
You need to appear online at the certain time and solve 5 flips in less than 2 minutes to validate yourself.
Just make sure your node is fully synchronized right before the validation.


No, unfortunately that's not enough. The invitation itself can not guarantee that one person has only one address.
If someone can send you multiple invitations then you can have multiple accounts. Then you can issue more invitations for yourself and thus grow millions of fake accounts.

Just look at the facebook struggling with billions of fake accounts:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2019/05/24/facebook-deleted-more-than-2-billion-fake-accounts-in-the-first-quarter-of-the-year-infographic/#7efd1f767e30


 

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Idena blockchain formalizes people so there might be use cases that we can not anticipate yet. But there are some issues that hopefully POP may address:
1. Fair voting and the governance. The hardest issue in the blockchain space is how to establish democratic decision making.
2. Concentration issue. There are 3 mining pools conrtol 51% of the Bitcoin hashrate. Bitcoin mining is concentrated in one area. 80% of the hashrate is located in China. Ethereum PoS will not change the game. The initial wealth of is in few hands. 70% of ETH was premined. 53% of ETH owned by 400 wallets.
3. Blockchain scalability issue. Running multiple shard-chains is not safe when the stake is concentrated.

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Validation is starting. Get ready!

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Validation report is available

85 identities are validated: https://scan.idena.io/validation?epoch=16

192 flips where created before the validation: https://scan.idena.io/validation?epoch=16#flips
- 180 flips are qualified
- 7 flips did not reach consensus about the right answer and were disqualified
- 5 flips reached a weak consensus about the right answer

Validation rewards paid to participants: https://scan.idena.io/rewards?epoch=16

Interesting. Watching to see how the POP plays out.

USE CASE is necessary. You are at the point of a truly fair distribution IF this ends up working, but even if successful at distribution of coins, and keeping the network running, what is it all for?

What am I missing here??

Very interesting start. We need new ideas in the space really bad

i been trying to get validated for a week+, never seems to work and just eats way too much bandwidth sitting open fully synced
im just gonna uninstall this, i cant just sit and watch a wallet 24 hours a day for a captcha to pop up, someone sent me an invite code, why is that not enough?
you guys really should have thought this through...

Sorry, we don't release builds of Idena Client for the Linux yet.
In order to build the client from source code you'd need the following:
1. install npm
2. get the source code from the github release
3. npm install
4. npm run start


There are 51,840 DNA coins are minted per day maximum. 50% is mined while producing the blocks. The rest of the coins are minted during validation sessions. The coins are distributed between all validated participants.
https://idena.io/?view=faq#faq-economy-2

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Hopefully this will answer the question:
https://medium.com/idena/ai-resistant-captchas-are-they-really-possible-760ac5065bae

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Announcement
Please doublecheck the time of next validation in Idena app
If you had the clocks change to the winter time this weekend in your country then the validation time for you will be shifted for 1 hour

⏰The validation time is always fixed at 13:30 UTC
✅Idena app displays the proper validation time for your local time zone


Idena Node version 0.13.2 is available
Changes:
- Validation session critical bug fix (false late submission)
The update is highly recommended for the successful validation:
https://idena.io/?view=download

Proof of person 🤔 sounds weird. That's how gym reward a crappie project, came up with proof of exercise (POE). I hope this one won't be a total mess also. Well, we keep learning so I will like to know more about this proof of person algorithm. POW and POS are the algorithms I'm used to.

Thanks for the link. This particular one makes the whole cheating with multiple accounts question clear:
If this becomes valuable, I imagine that a user will find it profitable to hire multiple people to solve captcha.

It is also possible that thousands/millions of sophisticated AI will be used to solve captcha?

Can you release a deb package for your Linux client? Looks like I have to compile it myself which I have to go all the stuff again that i completely forgotten how to find its dependencies but  I am interested to run a node with my old machine, maybe I can make this run the whole time while it still lives.

How much coins can we mine a day being a node?

Individual must validate themself in order to mine coins.

The uniqueness of participants is proven by the fact that they must solve and provide the answers for flip-puzzles synchronously. A single person is not able to validate herself multiple times because of the very limited timeframe for the submission of the answers.

https://idena.io/?view=faq#faq-pop-1

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Please check PM

Don't you think that single individual could run multiple idena nodes in order to cheat or something? This is a potential problem... you think it doesn't matter or has it been solve?

Will download the node later and see how the whole thing works. I already bookmarked your site.
This looks very interesting.

Yes, I have downloaded it but I did not see the progress bar on the client. It is normal? my network speed is 10 Mbps.
I am currently at blocks 405121 and it stopped. What should I do next?
do you have a video tutorial or something like that to help us run the node?

Yeah, it felt strange for a while, but now when i've had time to think about it, it makes sense. It was just a new approach and hard to get my head around it first. Luckily i live in a timezone that allows me to participate without any problems.

It depends on your computer and the network speed. You can see the synchronization progress in the Idena Client user interface. Did you downloaded it?


Yes you can move the full copy of the /datadir/ folder which is created in the same directory where the node is located.

You should have told us in the first place, I thought something wrong happened with my computer. How long it will take?
I have waited for 15 minutes and it kept showing 90%+


Can I download the blockchain locally and then move the data to VPS and using it?