If bitcoin according to Satoshi is digital money then why call it investment. - page 3.

coolcoinz

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Quote from: PeRo on July 13, 2023, 08:12:24 AM

That's what happens when something starts to be used in a way that wasn't originally intended. You can read everywhere that Bitcoin is intended to be a digital currency with a decentralized system and to be used like that but the price fluctuations made it to be more of an asset to people who bought it and now it is mostly used as an investment asset. Even though that probably wasn't Satoshi's intention, I think it's better for Bitcoin to be used like that since it made Bitcoin have the price and value it has now.

Maybe we wouldn't get this far with Bitcoin and who knows if it would stick around, but anyway I think you should just call Bitcoin as however you see it in your eyes as everyone uses it differently and has their own opinion on it.

Satoshi tried to make a decentralized form of money, but you can't control free market price. This is not something Satoshi could have predicted.
He wanted people to use bitcoin the way they want and that's what happened, so I doubt that he'd be disappointed by the way things have turned out.

Bitcoin has a number of features and characteristics. If someone says it can be only money and a payment system, but not a store of value, or an investment, he makes no sense to me.

Japinat

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Quote from: OcTradism on July 11, 2023, 10:26:02 PM

The world has freedom of speech and you can call Bitcoin as anything you want in your vision.

You can call it as it is, Bitcoin but you can call it as a shitcoin, a virtual currency, digital currency or even a scam currency.
If you buy it and hold it as an asset, you will call it as a store of value, for your investment.
If you use it at a gambling site, you will call it as a gambling currency.
You use bitcoin in your own ways and other people use their bitcoins in their ways which can be different than yours.

It can be called as The Internet of money
or as a Bitcoin standard.

Whatever you call it, others call it, Bitcoin is Bitcoin.

You’re right mate. Bitcoin is Bitcoin no matter what people call it. However, for me bitcoin is also an investment because it grows its value and in return it will provide us profits or income that we can also used to invest aside from bitcoin. The fact that bitcoin is a store of value then people can freely call it as an investment. And despite of its highly volatile price, bitcoin remains a good and profitable investment as it is.

CryptSafe

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Quote from: BITCOIN4X on July 13, 2023, 12:44:21 PM

Quote from: CryptSafe on July 13, 2023, 08:52:09 AM

Quote from: aoluain on July 13, 2023, 03:24:45 AM

~Snip

No doubt bitcoin still remains a peer2peer electronic cash system and very much active as many individuals and businesses adopted the payment system into the routine. This has called for financial self custody as one does not really to go through the banks or involve a third party for transaction purposes. The issue of high fee transaction charges by the banking institutions have been wiped out. Monitoring of ones financial engagement been kept out of third party anonymously. One can comfortably exchange their fiat into bitcoin as a value for their wealth storage and measurement.

According to its basic idea, bitcoin is a currency. Bitcoin had no value when it was introduced, but when it started gaining use cases and demand it started gaining value. Its value has gotten higher over time due to increased demand and limited supply, but its price volatility has allowed many people to make it an investment and trading asset.

You are absolutely right mate. This is amongst other reasons why bitcoin became the investment option of holders. The constant growth from the very beginning made it worth sort after. The speed is insurmountable and notwithstanding, it took the world by surprise and here it is today. This far it has come, it has made millionaires and in that cause it is treasured as an asset and seen as digital gold because of it's limited supply, utility value and time of invention.

imamusma

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Satoshi created bitcoin as a very innovative money or means of payment, it is decentralized and secure. Bitcoin has also been used as a means of payment either legally or illegally by most of its users. Not all countries legalize bitcoin as a means of payment, but most legalize bitcoin for trading.

I can say that I don't consider bitcoin as a means of payment because I can't legally use it in my country, so bitcoin is an investment asset or a high-value and tradable asset.

MFahad

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Quote from: rat03gopoh on July 12, 2023, 12:18:58 AM

Because gradually people can't deny that bitcoin meets the criteria as an investment asset, and is proven by several success stories of bitcoiners in their investment journey. Even if you personally think otherwise, it's actually not a problem, basically bitcoin still doesn't violate the principle of being a payment instrument for anyone who thinks it's valuable.

Bitcoin is consider as an investment asset because of its volatile nature if it persists in a constant value then no body will consider it as an investment asset. Bitcoin is used both as a payment and investment asset but as a payment method it is only understandable by those who have some knowledge about it and in that area where there is a fast Internet.

Volatility is sometimes consider as risky but it is also beneficial in terms of buying and selling because at higher price one cannot buy it and at lower price no one will be in desire to sell it so both are beneficial and because of this unstability people demands more for bitcoin investment.

KiaKia

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Bitcoin as a medium of exchange makes it on par as digital currency and if you think it's wrong as an investment think about the halving and also the miners, you will understand that Bitcoin is designed to create value for itself with time, the lower it's number the more scarcity is introduce and normally the value will keeps growing, it's simple, I accept Bitcoin as 3 in 1 capable digital currency.

1. Store of value
2. Medium of exchange.
3. Decentralized.

BITCOIN4X

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Quote from: CryptSafe on July 13, 2023, 08:52:09 AM

Quote from: aoluain on July 13, 2023, 03:24:45 AM

~Snip

No doubt bitcoin still remains a peer2peer electronic cash system and very much active as many individuals and businesses adopted the payment system into the routine. This has called for financial self custody as one does not really to go through the banks or involve a third party for transaction purposes. The issue of high fee transaction charges by the banking institutions have been wiped out. Monitoring of ones financial engagement been kept out of third party anonymously. One can comfortably exchange their fiat into bitcoin as a value for their wealth storage and measurement.

According to its basic idea, bitcoin is a currency. Bitcoin had no value when it was introduced, but when it started gaining use cases and demand it started gaining value. Its value has gotten higher over time due to increased demand and limited supply, but its price volatility has allowed many people to make it an investment and trading asset.

It doesn't matter what someone uses bitcoin for, it is still a tender that shares the same characteristics as any other currency. It's just that bitcoin does not have a physical form and bitcoin is not controlled by anyone including the government.

Bananington

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Quote from: PeRo on July 13, 2023, 08:12:24 AM

Maybe we wouldn't get this far with Bitcoin and who knows if it would stick around, but anyway I think you should just call Bitcoin as however you see it in your eyes as everyone uses it differently and has their own opinion on it.

Because many people have no need for it as currency yet, they choose to use it for investment because that is the function that it can perform for them at the moment. It does not mean that tomorrow it will not be used as currency when it becomes more accepted. Had bitcoins not had the function of being able to serve as investment, Many people would not have been interested in it since it is very illegal in some places and they would have had nothing to benefit from risking breaking the law.

AicecreaME

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According to google

Quote

An asset is something that has value and can be sold for a profit. An investment, on the other hand, is something that you expect will generate a return in the future.

In short, Bitcoin is an asset, in my opinion since it has already a value and can be sold whenever you want. So let's make an example for an investment, a business is an investment because it doesn't have any value when you just started it, it doesn't give you any income unless you're managing it correctly which gives your business a value in the long term.

CryptSafe

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Quote from: aoluain on July 13, 2023, 03:24:45 AM

Quote from: CryptSafe on July 11, 2023, 10:20:28 PM

The sole reason why bitcoin was invented was to serve the purpose of digital money for which it was clearly stated on the white paper by Satoshi Nakamoto as captured below by quote;

Quote

Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System.

Bitcoin White Paper

Bitcoin still is a Peer-to-Peer electronic cash system!

Bitcoin offers the opportunity for self custody secure wealth storage.

No doubt bitcoin still remains a peer2peer electronic cash system and very much active as many individuals and businesses adopted the payment system into the routine. This has called for financial self custody as one does not really to go through the banks or involve a third party for transaction purposes. The issue of high fee transaction charges by the banking institutions have been wiped out. Monitoring of ones financial engagement been kept out of third party anonymously. One can comfortably exchange their fiat into bitcoin as a value for their wealth storage and measurement.

PeRo

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That's what happens when something starts to be used in a way that wasn't originally intended. You can read everywhere that Bitcoin is intended to be a digital currency with a decentralized system and to be used like that but the price fluctuations made it to be more of an asset to people who bought it and now it is mostly used as an investment asset. Even though that probably wasn't Satoshi's intention, I think it's better for Bitcoin to be used like that since it made Bitcoin have the price and value it has now.

Maybe we wouldn't get this far with Bitcoin and who knows if it would stick around, but anyway I think you should just call Bitcoin as however you see it in your eyes as everyone uses it differently and has their own opinion on it.

Hispo

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I think that what has happened is quite similar from we see in countries and societies which suffer from high inflation. People when see their currency starts to decline, they move their money onto more stable assets or even assets which can earn value through time against the currency who is expected to decline in value.

People still see Bitcoin as a medium to transfer value, but the expectation of decreasing circulating coins and the way FIAT has behaved this latest years has led people to speculate against the value of USD and other currencies against the BTC. It is a matter of greed vs fear, I am almost sure satoshi knew something like this would happen because of the floating nature of the price, but perhaps he did not realize how big the volume of transactions was going to be.

aoluain

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Quote from: CryptSafe on July 11, 2023, 10:20:28 PM

The sole reason why bitcoin was invented was to serve the purpose of digital money for which it was clearly stated on the white paper by Satoshi Nakamoto as captured below by quote;

Quote

Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System.

Bitcoin White Paper

Bitcoin still is a Peer-to-Peer electronic cash system!

It is also an investment, a store of value, a borderless and permissionless transfer of wealth!

I'm sure Satoshi knew what the possible future would be for Bitcoin purely based
on the fact that it had limited supply and was essentially deflationary.

There are also a lot of people who are quite happy to ignore the main reason Bitcoin was
invented and are happy to use Bitcoin as an investment while letting a third party hold the
Bitcoin they think they own.

Bitcoin offers the opportunity for self custody secure wealth storage.

Iranus

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Quote from: el kaka22 on July 13, 2023, 12:33:18 AM

... and at the same time if you ever want to then you could pay stuff with crypto as well. This makes it like the greatest investment ever, you can't buy stuff with stocks or gold, it's rare and very very unique situation, usually you can't, and you can't invest into dollar because it loses value over time. So, bitcoin is far better than any of them.

I don't think this is true, I don't think you can buy anything with cryptocurrencies, specifically bitcoin. So far, not many countries or many stores accept bitcoin as a payment method, and that is unlikely to become widespread in the future. Governments are accepting bitcoin, but they are treating it as a commodity, an asset, it is tough to accept a volatile asset as a method of payment.

I know that bitcoin has not gone the way Satoshi had planned, but it is a good thing that it is becoming an investment. Since it is still bringing so many benefits to us, many people have changed their lives thanks to bitcoin. So I don't see anything wrong with it being an investment.

Blitzboy

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Philosophically, the public's understanding of an invention typically trumps the inventor's. It's not just Bitcoin. Social media was meant to connect people, but it also spreads misinformation and political propaganda. When managed for a few, this divergence from the original aim produces anger and envy. Bitcoin's transformation from currency to investment illustrates this. Satoshi Nakamoto's peer-to-peer electronic payment system has been overshadowed by speculation and "get rich quick" schemes. Don't rush to judgement. Bitcoin investment has increased adoption, worldwide awareness, and technology. Participating in these market dynamics is fun. Who knows, Satoshi's vision may be closer in the future. The Bitcoin community can influence that future.

Razmirraz

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The main purpose of creating Bitcoin as a medium of exchange for transactions carried out online, so in general Bitcoin is a digital currency, people consider Bitcoin as an Investment tool because of the speculative belief that Bitcoin will rise in the future. The presence of Bitcoin has made it easy to make transactions with anyone without a third party managing their circulation. That's right, as explained in the Bitcoin White Paper, Satoshi introduced Bitcoin as a decentralized digital currency. Then after all people accept Bitcoin on various digital platforms, it finally opens the way to be used as an investment asset because the price will increase in the future.

Ever-young

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Because money could also be considered as investment, and as a digital money this made it qualified to be called an investment, since it has the ability to increase wealth, and could be purchased and hold as a property, which could be used as money to buy anything and pay for some services between parties who knows about in a country were it's been accepted.

el kaka22

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It is both a money and an investment at the same time. I know this is hard to understand for some people but that is how it is. I believe that the best thing to do right now is to keep getting as much bitcoin as you possibly could get. I believe that if we do the right thing then we are going to end up with a profit one way or another.

It may not be an easy decision to buy and invest into bitcoin but at least you could do that, and at the same time if you ever want to then you could pay stuff with crypto as well. This makes it like the greatest investment ever, you can't buy stuff with stocks or gold, it's rare and very very unique situation, usually you can't, and you can't invest into dollar because it loses value over time. So, bitcoin is far better than any of them.

peter0425

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Quote from: GreatArkansas on July 12, 2023, 08:38:55 PM

Quote from: Yatsan on July 12, 2023, 07:53:21 PM

(....)
Gold and other minerals awere even used before as a mode of payment when currencies were not yet used as a system of payment. And same thing goes with Bitcoin.
(...)

Exactly, Bitcoin is the best example of Gold in the early days when gold before in intended as used for payment and later on become an investment.
Gold became an investment for most people because what they know is the gold price just keeps increasing.
Then now, it's the same thing happening with Bitcoin. That's why I can say we are still in early days on Bitcoin same before with Gold.

OP is just looking to what is the initial reason why Satoshi Nakamoto created bitcoin but not for the long term effect , Even Fiat is being Held by others as investment when the government wanted us to use this for circulation.

and also what is the difference from the banks that Holds your money when you deposit it there? why not call also the bankers for Fiats use?

kro55

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*STOP NOWHERE*

Quote from: CryptSafe on July 12, 2023, 12:25:24 AM

Quote from: kro55 on July 11, 2023, 11:03:27 PM

Quote from: CryptSafe on July 11, 2023, 10:20:28 PM

Now I ask how come it deviated to being an investment?.

People didn't call it an investment, they turned it into an investment property. Right, bitcoin was initially created to be a decentralized currency not controlled by anyone. But it is we investors who have turned bitcoin into a speculative asset, all because of our behavior and usage. But honestly, if bitcoin is not an investment, it is not volatile and not profitable. I wonder how many people will use it? Are you sure you are getting into bitcoin because you need privacy, not profit?

Privacy is one of the key features of bitcoin if I am not mistaken. Sole ownership without third party interference was the sole aim where by one can have access to his or her fund and do what ever he or she wants to do with it without any trace or mingling with government or any third party organizations. You have control over you funds.
Everyone individual loves profiting so therefore would utilize every opportunity they have to make more profits. No one is exempted from that even you too would want to use every little avenue to make profit.

You answered your own question, everyone likes to make a profit, even the smallest profit, so we should not wonder why bitcoin is not considered as a payment method but instead into an investment. People are always talking about bitcoin features like privacy, anonymity, and giving us complete control over our assets. All of this undeniably sets bitcoin apart from all other assets, but like I said, is that attractive enough for everyone if bitcoin isn't profitable? Our society is putting money first, so I don't think we should be surprised when everything is turned into an investment.

Topic: If bitcoin according to Satoshi is digital money then why call it investment. - page 3. (Read 610 times)