Topic: If there was no fiat where will BTC base its value? - page 3. (Read 2233 times)
if we study about the previous time when there was no paper money system and there was only barter system. so i think if there was not yet fiat currency introduced i think we will still using barter system, and if you are talking about a specific currency mean USD or Euro i think then we will compare bitcoin to some other currency. and it will then depend on the price an value of that currency ,
every bitcoiner wants a world without fiat, only bitcoins.
I am bitcoiner and I love this technology but I don't want world without fiat. If we are saying bitcoin is better we must understand that we are comparing it with something else. If you are removing one part of comparison then how can you fairly judge its advantages and disadvantages?
There is no exact scientific answer to your answer question as it’s totally depending on probability. If there was no fiat then the price of bitcoin would be based on demand and supply law and since users would be tremendously high for limited bitcoins then price of 1 bitcoin might touch current market capital.
If there's no fiat, people will back to use goods for trading
Let say that you have 1 cow that has $ 300 value
if 1 BTC = $ 600 so 1 BTC can be trade for 2 cows
Let say that you have 1 cow that has $ 300 value
if 1 BTC = $ 600 so 1 BTC can be trade for 2 cows
I was thinking that every bitcoiner wants a world without fiat, only bitcoins. Ok, if there was no fiat whatsoever, then where do you think will bitcoin base its value? Will it be in gold? But how much?
How do we determine the real value measure of bitcoin in an economy that has been very dependent on fiat?
How do we determine the real value measure of bitcoin in an economy that has been very dependent on fiat?
what is fiat?
- something that you base every thing else's value in the world on it. from a cup of coffee in the morning to the house you live in, is measured in value with fiat.
so if there were no fiat, then there were something else in its place that is being used to measure things values. most probably gold.
maybe we will use gold as main currency? 
1bitcoin = 1kg gold or maybe 1gram = 1bitcoin etc
i think without fiat we can't do trade with simple because fiat make each transaction easy and simple.
1bitcoin = 1kg gold or maybe 1gram = 1bitcoin etc
i think without fiat we can't do trade with simple because fiat make each transaction easy and simple.
the answer is quite simple actually. it will be gold. gold has been here for thousands of years, and it was, and still is being used as currency. how much would the value of 1 bitcoin in gold be? that question can nobody here answer. i think a certain weight of gold will be dedicated to give a bitcoin it's value. but then again, there is the question of will it be a fixed value, or are there any movements possible. these are questions with no answer.
+1 Bitcoin price would reflect precious metals or even raw materials. Btc itself has no proper value, its price is the pure reflection of confidence people put in it. If you want to express the value of it without fiat, just look at what you can buy with it. I was thinking that every bitcoiner wants a world without fiat, only bitcoins. Ok, if there was no fiat whatsoever, then where do you think will bitcoin base its value? Will it be in gold? But how much?
In theory, in a world without fiat, there would no point in basing Bitcoin's value on gold. Fiat's value is based on gold because the local governments possess gold reserves to back the value of fiat. Since Bitcoin is decentralized, there would be no gold reserves backing its value -- not unless some rich, altruistic investor provides a supply and insures everyone's Bitcoins with it. The only "thing" that can back Bitcoin's value are the products and services that people are willing to trade for it, and that's where its value would be based on. In the theoretical scenario, the market would initially look like a primitive type of barter system where values are skewed. However, as more services are rendered and more products are traded, the value will gradually stabilize.
Personally though, in a world without fiat, I would rather have a steady source of clean water and healthy food rather than any number of Bitcoins. A world without fiat can only be one of two things: an ideal utopian society where technology is absolute and Darwinian principles have culled most outliers, or a Mad Max type of world where a one-gunned man reigns king. The latter just seems 99.9999999% more likely to me.
I was thinking that every bitcoiner wants a world without fiat, only bitcoins. Ok, if there was no fiat whatsoever, then where do you think will bitcoin base its value? Will it be in gold? But how much?
How do we determine the real value measure of bitcoin in an economy that has been very dependent on fiat?
How do we determine the real value measure of bitcoin in an economy that has been very dependent on fiat?
How do we determine the real value of fiat money?Do you think that fiat money have real value?
They have value because people use them.
Bitcoin has value because people trust and use bitcoins,not because it costs X amount of dollars.
that fiat money is just a piece of paper while governments say it has value and most of the banks actually have no paper money but the promise of money and others trusting them, but bitcoin is not just promises but actually gives you the promise as codes which others then accept and with acceptance comes trust.
Bitcoin is just a sequence of codes that programmers made and say it has value, Ironic isn't it.
just a piece of advice, don't ever compare bitcoin and fiat about it's value, because both of them
has no value when both of them started, but trust gave them value.
Btc owes its existance to FIAT. That's why it will never replace FIAT in the future. If btc were a real currency, people wouldn't panic like that when the btc price drops right? (like the one we're having now)
I don't think that is a logical argument. Even the initial assumption ("Bitcoin owes its existence to fiat") is not generally true. As indicated by the message in the Genesis block, Satoshi launched Bitcoin to end the central banks reign that is directly tied to fiat money. So one could say that the fraudulent nature of fiat money was the reason for the invention of Bitcoin.
That however does in no way mean that Bitcoin depends on fiat or can't replace fiat. It's all a question of acceptance. If Bitcoin use spreads and it becomes a widely accepted currency, direct trade with native Bitcoin payments (without intermediate fiat conversion) will become more common. Eventually, fiat might become useless, because Bitcoin is easier and more secure (in terms of value stability) to use.
Currently we are far from this point. Fiat still dominates the world, hence it is used as a reference point for value by most people. But Bitcoin use is constantly increasing, so it is not impossible that Bitcoin might someday become a new reference point for value in the future. For today, Bitcoin is at least used as reference to express the value of the various altcoins...
ya.ya.yo!
None of the currency need any other currency to show its value, but it want itself to be a standard for worldwide currencies, we measure the value of bitcoin only because our normal currency currently is our local currency and so we want to know that how much it reach according to our fiat,
just think when you get your salary in your own local currency hw you measure it? do you measure it with other currencies? no, you just count them and know well its value.
just think when you get your salary in your own local currency hw you measure it? do you measure it with other currencies? no, you just count them and know well its value.
Very good question indeed.
Btc owes its existance to FIAT. That's why it will never replace FIAT in the future. If btc were a real currency, people wouldn't panic like that when the btc price drops right? (like the one we're having now)
Gold is nice but you can't carry gold blocks in your pocket and make your daily shopping with them, too damn dangerous. That's why FIAT is invented. But somehow, FIAT became the real gold
Btc owes its existance to FIAT. That's why it will never replace FIAT in the future. If btc were a real currency, people wouldn't panic like that when the btc price drops right? (like the one we're having now)
Gold is nice but you can't carry gold blocks in your pocket and make your daily shopping with them, too damn dangerous. That's why FIAT is invented. But somehow, FIAT became the real gold
I was thinking that every bitcoiner wants a world without fiat, only bitcoins. Ok, if there was no fiat whatsoever, then where do you think will bitcoin base its value? Will it be in gold? But how much?
How do we determine the real value measure of bitcoin in an economy that has been very dependent on fiat?
How do we determine the real value measure of bitcoin in an economy that has been very dependent on fiat?
If there is no fiat then you should compare bitcoin with something that most of the people are using(now the fiat is the first one) so you have to give a value to bitcoin like 0.5XAU(14gram of Gold) and then this should be as a reference when people make question on how much does a bitcoin worth.
During the initial distribution of any fiat currency the same question was asked. Markets and transactions essentially create what we see as the value of an object. You asked how much a desktop computer would cost, and the answer for bitcoin is the same as it is for fiat : After calculating in Manufacturing/Production & Advertisement costs, add on a little/lot of profit depending on the demographic of people you're trying to attract and bam you have your price.
Whatever somebody will buy/sell something for is it's value at that given time.
Whatever somebody will buy/sell something for is it's value at that given time.
the answer is quite simple actually. it will be gold. gold has been here for thousands of years, and it was, and still is being used as currency. how much would the value of 1 bitcoin in gold be? that question can nobody here answer. i think a certain weight of gold will be dedicated to give a bitcoin it's value. but then again, there is the question of will it be a fixed value, or are there any movements possible. these are questions with no answer.
question is quite strange, and you make it into a confused, with basing the price on gold, fiat is everything. you do not think about anything without fiat.
I was thinking that every bitcoiner wants a world without fiat, only bitcoins. Ok, if there was no fiat whatsoever, then where do you think will bitcoin base its value? Will it be in gold? But how much?
How do we determine the real value measure of bitcoin in an economy that has been very dependent on fiat?
i'm bitcoiners and still want fiat from world but if there is no fiat and only bitcoin exist in this world maybe bitcoin will more value than gold because bitcoin will automatically used as the payment of worldwide and it would be more worth from goldHow do we determine the real value measure of bitcoin in an economy that has been very dependent on fiat?
@op, i will try to answer your simple questions one by one.
That is where my question lies. If the value is 1:1 then how much will I pay in bitcoins for example a desktop computer?
you can simply see the btc rates at preev.com at the time of purchase and then calculate the actual amount of btc that you have to pay with those rates. this is called 1:1. it means that you dont have to pay any extra btc to purchase the item. Also how much bitcons will the merchant accept as payment?
merchant can accept any amount depending on your purchase. If I pay 1 BTC, will the merchant accept it?
yes but dont send any amount. btw, almost all the merchants convert usd into btc with 1:1 rate so that you can directly pay the given amount.How will we know if we use 1:1 as basis?
cross-verify the rates that your merchant is asking, with preev.com. if the conversion rates matches then it is ok, if it dont match then you should ask the seller about it. btw, you should also note that btc price always keeps fluctuating. 
I was thinking that every bitcoiner wants a world without fiat, only bitcoins. Ok, if there was no fiat whatsoever, then where do you think will bitcoin base its value? Will it be in gold? But how much?
How do we determine the real value measure of bitcoin in an economy that has been very dependent on fiat?
How do we determine the real value measure of bitcoin in an economy that has been very dependent on fiat?
If every bitcoiner wants a world without fiat then no sense to have it an exchange value to other money system.
Just use the usual bitcoin transactions where value is 1:1.
That is where my question lies. If the value is 1:1 then how much will I pay in bitcoins for example a desktop computer? Also how much bitcons will the merchant accept as payment? If I pay 1 BTC, will the merchant accept it? How will we know if we use 1:1 as basis?
that fiat money is just a piece of paper while governments say it has value and most of the banks actually have no paper money but the promise of money and others trusting them, but bitcoin is not just promises but actually gives you the promise as codes which others then accept and with acceptance comes trust.
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