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Topic: If your games aren't provably fair, stop claiming they are. - page 2. (Read 717 times)

hero member
Activity: 2856
Merit: 644
https://duelbits.com/
Extremely useful thread op. Honestly, I have little knowledge regarding provably fair mechanics myself even though I have been playing in crypto gambling sites for the last couple of years. This thread needs to be stickied if you ask me. Also, betabit.casino is a scam site. I won decent amounts through their sign-up bonus and they deducted my entire balance stating that the sign-up bonus was void suddenly.
Many people including me never thought of this aspect of the gambling sites. I wonder how much money these sites make by not truly implementing the provably fair and taking advantage of the ignorance of the gamblers  Sad
Yep, cheating is an integral part of the gambling world,
it has been there since the very beginnings !
This part of the case has happened many times and the casinos always have nothing to deviate from because they are unfair but that's only part of it, and what I played on the casino site was totally fair I just believed it.
This case is usually at casinos that are not known by taking advantage of the ignorance of gamblers and then the casino becomes a scam. I think this has happened a lot.
But still, many casino enthusiasts including myself never give up on casino games.
sr. member
Activity: 2380
Merit: 454
At least in traditional games there are alternatives to finding casinos that are not cheating and that offer the game probably fair, but in PvP poker games the alternatives are limited and rng predominates.

Casinos whether it's an online casino that is crypto or even fiat based, they are cheating to maximize their profits, that's the truth. You only have to choose what kind of way you wanted to lose your money. Playing in a physical casino doesn't guarantee you that they are really playing fair, or if it's PvP in a certain casino, you wouldn't know if someone is with the house and all of you playing against to that someone believes that you are having a fair game but it's not.
hero member
Activity: 1596
Merit: 502
OP did the right thing to open this topic.  Indeed, many players do not even know about such a concept as "provable honesty".  And now they will read this topic and will know.  Although, of course, it is most likely that only a specialist who is well acquainted with this topic can figure out whether it is true that a casino uses provable honesty or not.  But, for example, if you doubt the results of the game, then you can ask the support a corresponding question and see what they answer to the claim "but you do not have a provable honesty algorithm !!!" or give it to me - I will check how honest it is.  Smiley  ...
We can ask for help from people who are familiar with the server code to prove the system is provably fair or not. He can ask that in here so some members can verify and show to us the result. If you only check the system without trying to enjoy the game, maybe you can become frustrated because that will need longer to find the truth. We as a gambler, don't have to bother to check that code but that will be up to you.
sr. member
Activity: 1498
Merit: 416
I don't think that not claiming your game isn't provably fair is a good thing in business perspective because if you don't declare that even if it's false, you're going to be losing a lot of potential clientele plus it's not new for businesses to lie about their services and products so I am not surprised that this is the case for some gambling sites.
newbie
Activity: 153
Merit: 0
legendary
Activity: 2520
Merit: 2853
Top Crypto Casino
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This description seems very credible to me (as for technical noob). Could it be the same cheating in both cases?
I found the same description here and it describes how the provably fair system works for a slot game.
For poker and card games, the server secret is used to determine the order of cards before cutting the deck which may impact the result of the game. For slots, the server secret is used to determine the initial position of reels which does not have the same impact (correct me if am wrong).
But the main question remains: why using the server secret alone, why don't they combine it with the client seed for better transparency?
legendary
Activity: 2702
Merit: 1465
OP did the right thing to open this topic.  Indeed, many players do not even know about such a concept as "provable honesty".  And now they will read this topic and will know.  Although, of course, it is most likely that only a specialist who is well acquainted with this topic can figure out whether it is true that a casino uses provable honesty or not.  But, for example, if you doubt the results of the game, then you can ask the support a corresponding question and see what they answer to the claim "but you do not have a provable honesty algorithm !!!" or give it to me - I will check how honest it is.  Smiley  ...
legendary
Activity: 3500
Merit: 6320
Crypto Swap Exchange
What I don't get, and it might just be me, but when you are offering games like this why bother cheating in such an obvious way?
I can tell you whatever I want on the front end of the slot machine say 95% payback. But if I set it to only payback 90% unless you play an impossible number of pulls you will never be able to see the true payback.

Other games like video poker, blackjack, and such you need a much smaller sample size. But slots, you can show one par table and actually run another. So why scam?

-Dave
sr. member
Activity: 2268
Merit: 275
At least in traditional games there are alternatives to finding casinos that are not cheating and that offer the game probably fair, but in PvP poker games the alternatives are limited and rng predominates.

Now because most online based gambling dominates and is not difficult to find, then don't expect it to be completely fair. Casinos also need the profits they build in running their business. If we talk about traditional gambling, we can still talk about when there is a fraud that can be corrected directly. As for now, we only rely on casino ratings that have a fairness level of above 85%.
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 1248
Extremely useful thread op. Honestly, I have little knowledge regarding provably fair mechanics myself even though I have been playing in crypto gambling sites for the last couple of years. This thread needs to be stickied if you ask me. Also, betabit.casino is a scam site. I won decent amounts through their sign-up bonus and they deducted my entire balance stating that the sign-up bonus was void suddenly.

Many people including me never thought of this aspect of the gambling sites. I wonder how much money these sites make by not truly implementing the provably fair and taking advantage of the ignorance of the gamblers  Sad
Yep, cheating is an integral part of the gambling world,
it has been there since the very beginnings !
hero member
Activity: 2660
Merit: 614
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
Extremely useful thread op. Honestly, I have little knowledge regarding provably fair mechanics myself even though I have been playing in crypto gambling sites for the last couple of years. This thread needs to be stickied if you ask me. Also, betabit.casino is a scam site. I won decent amounts through their sign-up bonus and they deducted my entire balance stating that the sign-up bonus was void suddenly.

Many people including me never thought of this aspect of the gambling sites. I wonder how much money these sites make by not truly implementing the provably fair and taking advantage of the ignorance of the gamblers  Sad
hero member
Activity: 2604
Merit: 816
🐺Spinarium.com🐺 - iGaming casino
Before people play in the casino, they need to search by themselves and not depend on others' opinions so they can prevent the bad things that can come to them. Related to provably fair or not, we need to search by ourselves or do not have to think much about that because we assume that they will not cheat us. If we can play on the casino that has reputations, I think they will not try to do that thing because if their members find they are not fair, they can leave them. In this way, we really need to be careful playing gambling because the responsibilities will be on ourselves.
legendary
Activity: 1792
Merit: 2848
LE ☮︎ Halving es la purga
At least in traditional games there are alternatives to finding casinos that are not cheating and that offer the game probably fair, but in PvP poker games the alternatives are limited and rng predominates.
legendary
Activity: 2702
Merit: 1465
The problem is most of the gambler don't know or lazy to verify if the casino is really probably fair. The thread you share is very helpful and this is the first time to know that. Typically gamblers just trust the casino based on its reputation and not because of it's probably fair system.Using the word "Probably Fair" in the website details is a must for all casino since that's the only players need to know so that they can trust it. So we can't imply it to shady casino or casino that not using it since that is a norm on online casino business..
I think that in general, rarely any of the players will thoroughly understand the algorithms of provable fairness of the game.  It is difficult and you need to have the appropriate mindset and knowledge that most players do not have.  But I must note that here in BTT "gambling" section it is quite possible to find out how honestly certain casinos work.  It is enough to read a few pages of the relevant topics and you will definitely begin to understand if there are any claims.  And how serious and numerous they are.  For an initial study of the question of casino fairness, I think this will be enough.  After that, you can already read all the reviews on other forums, or even figure out the algorithm, if knowledge allows you to do this.
member
Activity: 199
Merit: 10
That's best way to avoid gambling in a site that you are not sure if it's provably fair or not. I would suggest what you said as it is much safer especially those who don't know how to verify it themselves. I find some threads that help how to verify gambling sites helpful so i agree that threads like this should be discussed when shared to those who don't know about it.
member
Activity: 148
Merit: 10
Extremely useful thread op. Honestly, I have little knowledge regarding provably fair mechanics myself even though I have been playing in crypto gambling sites for the last couple of years. This thread needs to be stickied if you ask me. Also, betabit.casino is a scam site. I won decent amounts through their sign-up bonus and they deducted my entire balance stating that the sign-up bonus was void suddenly.
legendary
Activity: 1323
Merit: 1000

I found this provably fair game description on the internet. I'm not technically good, but in these two cases the use of the word "seed" seemed similar to me.

Quote
PROVABLY FAIR
When you open the game page the server generates a secret and a seed and reveals its hash (using HMAC SHA256 algorithm). The server secret represents initial reels positions. The server seed is a cryptographically secure random alpha-numeric string. The hash of these 2 strings helps to ensure that the initial reels positions are not altered after you choose the number of lines and bet amount. After the game is finished the server secret and the server seed are revealed, so you can easily calculate and verify the hash.

When you play a game you can pass an extra custom string – client seed (if it’s not specified a random number is automatically generated by your browser). The server will then calculate another hash using the server secret, the server seed and the client seed. The last 5 chars of this hash (representing a hexadecimal value) will be converted to an integer. Each digit in this number will result in an extra number of spins on the corresponding reel (from left to right). Because the client seed can not be predicted by the server the number of extra spins is completely random and hence you can be sure that the game result is fair.

This description seems very credible to me (as for technical noob). Could it be the same cheating in both cases?
hero member
Activity: 2660
Merit: 651
Want top-notch marketing for your project, Hire me
Let just hope the newbies will try to do some search on gambling before using it because we still have a lot of them complaining about being scammed by 1xbit despite all the negative trust and the accusation raised about them
Having said that, I won't trust reviews to do the job cause some of the cheated casinos still find a way to manipulate it.
Not all will do a research first before gambling. There are some newbies posting new thread regarding to the site they accessed to gamble and most of them experience being not paid for breaking the rules as what most said.
Not doing diligent research about a gambling site before using it is the major problem newbies have and the sad part is that they will come to this forum for an assistant after the damage is done already when there's no way the forum could help.

Well, 1xbit is the most famous in my opinion. Even a review sites included 1xbit and it's sister company then give a review that is why many newbies are complaining about 1xbit because of bias reviews that shouldn't be included in a review sites except paid ones. We can't force them since they are paid to shill.
Review sites not being honest about the service is the major problem we have when it comes to gambling but trust is an expensive material in the crypto ecosystem so newbies should not rely on reviews site opinions only cause they mostly focus on their paycheck.

The reason why they lied to be provably fair is simple, just to get the attention of newbies and to indirectly steal from their users. These are the reason why I don't choose new gambling or casino site except those I have to know for at least a year.
Well, if you're not careful and not taking time to make a research first on where casino to gamble, you might really end up in this kind of site. Claiming their games are provably fair but the truth is not, especially those to good to be true offer to lure the gamblers.

One of the reason why I rarely trust a new sites because I still prefer the old casinos with good reputation.
I agreed with what you said but we have also experienced some old gambling sites which also gone bad either and I think it is better to understand a gambling owner's dedication and enthusiasm before using a gambling site.
hero member
Activity: 2338
Merit: 750
Let just hope the newbies will try to do some search on gambling before using it because we still have a lot of them complaining about being scammed by 1xbit despite all the negative trust and the accusation raised about them
Having said that, I won't trust reviews to do the job cause some of the cheated casinos still find a way to manipulate it.
Newbies don`t do research. They mostly wants easy money. In such a way they are choosing the most attractive casinos - more bonuses, more discounts. Often changes casinos for getting "welcome bonus". It will continue until newbie willn`t get his own set of mistakes. After that he usually ceases to be a newbie.
hero member
Activity: 2912
Merit: 629
The reason why they lied to be provably fair is simple, just to get the attention of newbies and to indirectly steal from their users. These are the reason why I don't choose new gambling or casino site except those I have to know for at least a year.
Well, if you're not careful and not taking time to make a research first on where casino to gamble, you might really end up in this kind of site. Claiming their games are provably fair but the truth is not, especially those to good to be true offer to lure the gamblers.

One of the reason why I rarely trust a new sites because I still prefer the old casinos with good reputation.
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