Topic: I'm surprised this hobby and genre of crypto collectibles isn't more popular (Read 1024 times)

I really just like having loaded items, though now they are starting to seem more of a liability. But definitely the reason I like them is because they ARE actually Bitcoin. Buyer-funded coins or peeled coins just never appealed to me, I still prefer to have funded coins. I think my initial thought was that if I was to ever sell the coins that we might get a bigger premium because it was funded (assuming other people desire funded coins as I do). Before when BTC wasn't too much, selling one of these coins wasn't such a big deal, but now its like you pretty much gotta fly the damn thing to the buyer. I had thought about Stacks Bowers, but if by some chance you didn't get what you were looking to get it would be a shame.

When you mentioned about a loaded item becoming "unspendable", why might that happen? Could you paint me a scenario. I know a bit about dust attacks, but never really thought how they might affect loaded coins.

I usually buy collectibles because I like them in some way.  They speak to me.  They mark the journey that I went through.  I do not expect them to gain value in any way vs holding bitcoin.  But I only have one life, and I do like to enjoy some physical things once in a while. Therefore each buy in carefully considered against just buying bitcoin instead.   

Recently, I've noticed that while some of the quality of some items has drastically improved, the premiums are just way too high.  On top of this, my concern is with loaded items.  Now that we know that the "dust" on main chain will keep going up due to fees, why are artist STILL making pieces with small amount of sats on mainchain on those physicals?  I'd much rather have an unloaded item that I like in hand, than having a loaded item that will become unspendable some day (and that i paid much higher for!)  The premiums are already through the roof... I just don't get it... Is the goal to ultimately have those traded like an opendime?   

You gotta be careful talking about that dirty bitcoin transactions called ordinals around here… Maxi’s hate it. Even tho one could argue it’s the only thing keeping miners in business and profitable. I can say that ordinals have paid for every physical crypto piece I have purchased for the last year and there’s a couple producers that I buy every release from. On top of that - it has made it fun again.

As collectibles go - I find it easy to trust the keys and the makers IF they exude confidence in themselves by the way they act, talk, and sell their products. They also need to demonstrate great organization and attention to detail.  It’s a basic trust that they are not keeping the keys AT ALL EVER and ALL keys are destroyed once printed. As we saw with Yogg, some lying piece of shits will keep keys with a plan to rug at some poin, but there were obvious warning signs (loans, unfilled orders, sketchy behavior). The longer a creator is in this space and doesn’t have issues - the more trustworthy they become. My current trust list is - Squirrelbits, MyBits, Lealana (although customer service sucks), Alpen, CypherHodl, CI if they ever put some more stuff out, Mopar Mining LLC (if I need keys made safely)—- probably a few others but these were easy to think of.

I see this market growing. I collected vintage silver/gold hand poured bars before this. I used to be able to pick them up near spot price or a few bucks over. Now some bars are 10x - 100x times spot or more. All it takes is time and new collectors. I imagine when these kids that have bitcoin get older, they will want to buy our bags. But hopefully sooner than that lol

If bitcoin hits $1m, I would imagine there would be a lot of peeling going on... at that price point, what is your level of trust to that maker who produced the keys?
I would think it would be hard to find a buyer who is willing to shill out that much fiat in the hopes that btc will still be there in 5-10-20 years.

I have peeled many good coins and have been duped a few times. Most recently were a few Microsouls that had missing characters in the private key making them unredeemable and the btc trapped forever.
Another user (rxalts) redeemed a Lealana XMR coin where the private key had started to fade and became worse at time passed.

Even at this price point, I have recommend to some to redeem their coins versus having to deal with the logistics of transfer.

Is the 1000 btc coin really worth 1 billion at that point?  not really...   the btc may be worth that, but what is the value of the coin itself?
That's like folding up a $100 bill and taping it to a $1 coin...  "Now this coin is worth $101" 

I have thought about all of this quite deeply. I come from a family of collectors, antique dealers. Grew up collecting coins, sports cards, and am quite knowledgeable in all types of collectibles.

Nobody knows anything about crypto, nobody has any idea about these crypto physical collectibles. I believe these collectibles will continue to rise in value, but it will be a niche market (just like it is now). So many people are already priced out on these things. The only people I see really buying these things is people who made some money on BTC/crypto and stumbled upon our forum or rich Boomers who sit at home and bid on auctions for things they don't need.

Unfortunately, the younger generations don't care for silver or gold or physical collectibles really. I wanted to gift my nephew and niece some Silver Morgans instead of giving them cash for Christmas and they couldn't have cared less. Last bull run, I absolutely loathed NFTs, but then I started to see how the younger generation absolutely vibed with it. So many of those kids spend countless hours on role playing games gaining xp and trying to get rare objects. So NFTs were kinda like a real world version of it.

Just this year I started following more about Ordinals/Inscriptions/etc. and I think that is going to be the ultra collectible item. Rare sats/early sats, sats from significant transactions,  maybe alot of you already know about this stuff. But these are the things normies can probably afford. But I can only imagine when BTC hits some incredible dollar values (i.e. 1 million per BTC) that sats will become some of the best and most liquid BTC memorabilia (and certainly nobody can scam or rob you on those and everything can be verified and stored away safely). And honestly, as much as I hated NFTs, because Ordinals/NFTs are on BTC, I kinda like some of them and even bought a couple "blue chips", hahaha. Perhaps I can accept it because i just see the opportunity to potentially gain more BTC. But I still feel like these kids that made it big on ETH NFTs last cycle are constantly searching for another win and Ordinals on BTC is something they can vibe with and we still more and more of that money cross over to the BTC/Ordinals NFT ecosystem.

I love my physical coin collection and I'd probably never even sell any of it, but I think only older rich folks are the ones who will "buy our bags", people with too much money looking to diversify their investments a bit. Last cycle a good buddy of mine was telling me how Steve Aoki (a famous DJ), just aped 10 million bucks worth of sports cards to put some money somewhere else. Our collectibles are way better than that garbage, and certainly much more rare and scarce. It still blows my mind people are paying Tens of thousands of dollars for such common baseball/collectible cards that flooded the market 1989 and onwards (i.e. pokemon card, Ken Griffey Jr rookie card, anything after 1990 for sure). But now that the BTC ETFs have been approved all these Boomers finally accept BTC as a real thing. I imagine that sentiment will carry over into the numismatics world and demand will grow amongst traditional coin collectors.

One concern of mine about the physical collectibles is if BTC does hit a million and I did want to sell the coin who is going to buy it? Not sure its ever happened, but has anyone ever peeled a perfectly good legitimate coin and something was wrong? Private key unreadable or just not there? Pretty big risk by the buyer at that price point. I would really hate to peel any of my coins.

Perhaps in the future a mainstream BTC/crypto physical collectible will catch on, something pretty well marketed and mass produced, then from there people will research earlier collectibles and these things will really become popular. If BTC hits 1 Million, then someone with a 1000 BTC Casascius will be hodling a billion dollar coin. That will be something the media might jump on and normies would have to take notice.

Anyway, just some thoughts.

I feel like for the bitcoin talk meet up group We should have those name tag stickers that says “hi my name is,” and let people write in their forum screen names. 1: it’ll help us identify people, and 2:  if people want to remain anonymous with their real name it gives them an option too.  (Just a thought)
[/quote]

Not a bad thought at all ^^ Yeah they are there for good, I guess I missed that very crucial detail I thought they were just experimenting but no, here it is: https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoin-conference-2024-goodbye-to-miami-say-hello-to-nashville/#:~:text=%E2%80%9CWe%20believe%20that%20Bitcoin%20Nashville,to%20thrive%2C%E2%80%9D%20said%20Bailey.

I'm not able to make it this year, but the conference will mature when I plan to go the next year Its a bit of a treck for me but I think it'll be worth it. Plus I have some pretty good friends in nashville actually. I have always wanted to go there.

I’m quite shocked that only 3 people owned any. Very surprising. Hopefully a few were lying to you, as Andreas says it best “never talk about your bitcoin” or something like “no need to discuss bitcoin amongst, that what I’m here for”. Essentially just speaking the importance of keeping your finances private, as well as helping keep your bitcoin potentially pseudonymous.

I’ve done a little “study” of my own. I’m an FA by trade so I’m speaking with people about their finances all day long, and of all the people who’ve told me they own bitcoin, NOT ONE had theirs in cold storage or even knew what a hot wallet was/is. More of a lack of investor intelligence and laziness than necessarily being early IMHO. However no doubt that plays a sizable role.



Always good to see new faces on the forum, especially when it has to do with collectibles (same reason I signed up 8 some years ago). As glad to see you’re planning to make one yourself. I would be happy to help guide you down the “right path”. At least my version of it.  Please feel free to DM me.

And that's just the space. You need to bring everything else. Tables, chairs, banners, etc.
On top of that you have insurance and labor costs and......

Booths at shows are not cheap.

-Dave

BTC  Media the host of the conference is based in Nashville, so I am guessing the conference will be in Nashville for coming years...   just a guess
[/quote]


I feel like for the bitcoin talk meet up group We should have those name tag stickers that says “hi my name is,” and let people write in their forum screen names. 1: it’ll help us identify people, and 2:  if people want to remain anonymous with their real name it gives them an option too.  (Just a thought)

I was told the booths ranged from 15k to 25k - mad crazy expensive.

Thanks m8!



I feel like James and the team would definitely welcome the idea! I am curious if they will keep the conference in Tennessee next year as well? Man I hope they bring it back to Miami! I am pretty sure they will after they hear all the folks flying internationally & hear of all the hassle they had to go through just to make it this year they might consider it. But who knows. I am so down to either try and partner up for something like that. I know one thing is for sure that if i'm going next year I sure won't miss the Btalk physical crypto collectors meet up  Last years was so dope, although it was a little crammed and didn't really ideally get to meet every single person there and get to figure out exactly who they were on here but hey we will all eventually meet each other as long as we keep up over the years
[/quote]

BTC  Media the host of the conference is based in Nashville, so I am guessing the conference will be in Nashville for coming years...   just a guess

Good thread tread! lots of good discussion


[/quote]

Thanks m8!



I feel like James and the team would definitely welcome the idea! I am curious if they will keep the conference in Tennessee next year as well? Man I hope they bring it back to Miami! I am pretty sure they will after they hear all the folks flying internationally & hear of all the hassle they had to go through just to make it this year they might consider it. But who knows. I am so down to either try and partner up for something like that. I know one thing is for sure that if i'm going next year I sure won't miss the Btalk physical crypto collectors meet up   Last years was so dope, although it was a little crammed and didn't really ideally get to meet every single person there and get to figure out exactly who they were on here but hey we will all eventually meet each other as long as we keep up over the years

Booths aint cheap... pretty sure Mopar told me normal cost was around $25k ?? not 100% sure though.....
Maybe something partnering with James at Stacks and Bowers would be pretty cool.

Good idea!
I know my paintings aren't your classic collectables, but I'd participate with a print or two, especially Bitcollector seems appropriate for this kind of occasion.

I’m probably not the first one to propose this idea, but what if we got a Headstart for next years 2025 bitcoin conference and we all chipped in to have a booth that’s strictly for the bitcoin talk collectible section? it would give us enough time to raise funds for a couple security guards and We’re logistical planning and tables and banners. I would be willing to donate the first $500 in Btc, we could have MJ Escrow the fund.

Would love to know everyone thoughts 🤠

Altogether and overall a very positive discussion about crypto collectibles. Another
question I want to ask based on the above points about the space being in its infancy,
has the activity on the "Collectibles" board increased over the years?

I think it has become more streamlined towards crypto collectibles, I think I remember
a good few years ago that Lesbian Cow was selling a lot of FIAT collectibles for example
but FIAT collectibles rarely come up now.

In terms of new makers, I think the preference generally would be for the items they make
to be buyer funded, if they would be pre funded I'm playing it safe and hold'ing off.

I think physcal crypto coins have barely broken the surface.  I can tell you that of the 30 or so 25 - 45 aged people I have worked with over the past few years, only a handful even owned cryptocurrency (I'm counting dogecoin to or it would be only 2-3). Even those that know about and own crypto - have no clue about physical crypto coins. They don't understand how you can have bitcoin on a wallet or how you could redeem it. I would say we are early. Stacks auctions are bringing some attention, but it could be better.  Maybe have James do a direct link to the collectibles section instead of just mentioning the forum (I could reach out but I'm sure there are others who have a lengthy relationship with him... I just buy and converse on whatever issues I see with their listings... he's a good dude tho) - I can tell you, the collectibles section is hard to find if you are a newbie and just stumble your way to the forum homepage.

At this point in time, it would be very hard for me to trust new makers.  I'm talking people who just come out of the woodwork and want to produce coins.  Besides the trust in the maker, you also have to trust that the maker knows how to safely and securely make keys. Mopar has like a 10 step process that is very involved and very safe... I need to know they produce keys to that level of security. There are just too many shady people in this space.  And you can tell it by the way they talk, sound like some lying leviathans always talking in circles and can never be straight forth and honest.

Either way - this space is still early. When btc skyrockets up and people (collectors like ourselves... most people I know in this space also collected something else before) start to see themselves being priced out of certain makers, they will fomo in and buy.  - I know cuz I was there, and I did it.

Good thread tread! lots of good discussion

I definitely would have to agree with you here, if it wasn't for folks like Alpencoin and Polymerbit & so many others keeping this hobby alive then eventually all this section would be is only a place to find some of the few remaining Casascius or BTCC coins left that at some point will become too expensive for most to aquire unless they are already peeled.

I think that having variety and especially coins that keep up with the times & portraying relevant current events help to frame those events in history in our unique space and also represent the lifeblood of our hobby.

Surely you will come across the scum of the hobby who steal the coins and appear to be good people but then stab you in the back. That is unfortunate but that is the sheer nature of cryptocurrency and frankly the sheer nature of this world unfortunately.

I am very bullish on the outlook of this space and I for one am very excited for what new makers and new coins will bring, a fresh perspective and hopefully new and innovative designs & types of coins.

I think right now we are in a fragile state with recent current events but I think we are not far from having a lot more demand and interest flooding in, especially when Bitcoin strikes fresh new ATHs & some of the original makers and even new makers break records in auctions sales and the press & other celebs bring attention to it.

Stay vigilant my friends! Have a positive outlook on this hobby because the best may have already come but we sure have a heck of a lot more to look forward to in my book.

I think a lot of people do collect but a lot of them don't talk about it.

Personally I used to do more but realized that a lot of what I was collecting was just going to wind up in boxes or in storage and never get displayed so I have been sell off a lot and cutting back on what I buy.
When I posted this: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/the-why-is-davef-selling-all-this-stuff-all-of-a-sudden-post-5455887  a year ago I had a few people reach out to me for some items that I have never seen in the collectables section of the forum.

I have also had a couple of non crypto people reach out asking for other things that they knew I had when I was selling off some other stuff for items they wanted to collect. BUT, they were not and still are not known as collectors. So there it probably a lot more out there that just value their privacy and unless they reach out to you about it you would never know.

-Dave

Thats an interesting view C, my thinking is that there should be constantly new makers
making themselves known in order to help progress. Maybe a new Alpencoin will be
born tomorrow, who knows?

If we were all just hunting Casascius and BTCC there would be no Alpen, Cypher, Polymerbit etc.

I would like to hear more about why new makers will be a think of the past?

I like to see new makers appearing but I like it more when they expand and continue
to create rather than a one off offering.