Topic: In the gun debate who do you think is the most stupid? - page 5. (Read 15506 times)

You mean like this?

Myrkul, you should suggest this to yourself due your constantly subversion of established concepts. A dictionary was not designed to merely display words and numbers, but to inform readers of correct definitions. It main purpose is to preserve the meaning of the words, not to rest in a shelf. You should try one, it will not hurt you.

AugustoCroppo has lapsed past argumentation, and into comedy.

If you're going to debate the meaning of words, you might want to learn them, first.

No, 'they' do not because 'they' are not 'they', but "it". Like Myrkul, you are assigning a human quality to an inanimate object (pathetic fallacy)

You are trying to free yourself from criticism by transferring the moral conduct from yourself to the firearm. So, to avoid criticism, you typed 'the rest of the time, they are shooting at paper', which implies the intention to shoot at papers come from the firearm and not from you. Then, because you do not hunt (and therefore, you do not kill), you can safely transfer back to you the moral conduct and avoid any criticism. In other words, when your premise can become target of criticism you assign your conduct to the firearm, when your premise cannot become target of criticism you do not assign your conduct to the firearm.


A "sheep" society can exist without "sheepdogs". The "sheepdog" is not an essential element for the "sheep" society to exist. Your analogy is based on the false premise that without "sheepdogs", a "sheep" society would cease to exist. This is untrue and do not serve as argument to justify the right to own a gun for personal use.


That is the only part where you properly justify your right to own a gun.

It is reasonable to own a gun to enjoy shoot at papers?

Yes, its is quite reasonable.

It is reasonable to own a gun because a "sheep" society could not exist without a "sheepdog" shooting at papers?

No, it is quite unreasonable and fallacious.

Well, I don't want to derail this scintillating discussion, so I'll just state that AnCap was not my goal in stating that, though it certainly does make sense that you would go there.

In response to the "no path from here to there," we have that covered, and those that are content to be sheep are welcome to select their own sheepdogs, so long as they do not attempt to force that decision on others.

Now back to our regularly scheduled bickering.

I know where you want to go with this, and ancap is off-topic in this thread.  Still, I don't disagree with your conclusions, I just don't see a way to get there from where we are.

And I think that there would always be a percentage of the population that would simply prefer to be sheep.  Ignorance is truely bliss.

In support of my prior claims....

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9875875


Looking into the methods, misdemeanor traffic violations were generally excluded from the study, as some states consider moving violations to be misdemeanors and others do not.

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcgvmurd.html

This last one...

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/race.cfm

...focuses mostly upon the race of the victim and the assailant, but is also useful for pointing out a related stat.  That certain subcultures (I don't believe that the actual concentration of melatonin has anything to do with this) are more prone to produce violently inclined adults than others.  While race is a general indicator of sub-cultural background, it's certainly not absolute.

Still, if you exclude all minorities from these statistics, a white adult is less likely to be murdered, per capita, in the United States than in Europe.  That is not to say that either is at all likely, nor that either is actually more safe generally; but the argument that the gun culture in the US contributes to an increased risk for any particular person (of European decent or cultural background) is without any statistically significant merit.

As an aside, white people are much more likely to be murdered by poisoning in the United States than by firearm.

EDIT: I might be reading that last stat incorrectly, but it's certainly a lot more likely than I would have assumed, myself.

And if you knock the teeth out of every sheepdog except the ones in uniform, then the wolves won't be content to hide in sheep's clothing. They'll want sheepdog's clothing.

"A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves." - Edward R. Murrow.

Wonder what sort of government a nation of sheepdogs would engender.

I don't believe that is generally true.  It's certainly not true for myself.  I've never felt unsafe, before or after owning firearms.  That's simply statisticly untrue in general.  I'm much more likely to die in a auto accident, and I know it.  All my firearms spend the vast majority of their time locked in a rather large safe, because they are valuable.  The rest of the time, they are shooting at paper.  I don't hunt, myself.  I do have a concealed carry license, but rarely carry at all.  I have the weapons, and the license, in the event that I ever do feel that I should need to carry.  I've never seen civil unrest in this city, but my father has, and I strongly suspect that he participated.  My father is actually fairly anti-gun, being a product of the 60's peace/love culture.  I'm not anti-gun because I joined the USMC at 17, partialy out of rebellion to my childhood.  The military culture was not for me either, but I do enjoy shooting, and also understand that the judicious use of force is a cornerstone of civilization; and the rifle is the king of personal weapons.  I'm a sheepdog among a flock of sheep, and I'm fully aware of that.  Many of those here that defend the personal ownership of weaponry are also sheepdogs.  You might not like the idea that we are around, but we are necessary for your peaceful society to continue to exist; whether or not we may be wearing a uniform.

That said, you are no more "safe" in a society that prohibits you, as a common civilian, from owning or carrying personal weaponry than I am in a society with a long and deep gun culture.  However you might feel about that is actually quite irrelevant.

http://www.gleamingedge.com/mirrors/onsheepwolvesandsheepdogs.html