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Topic: In the gun debate who do you think is the most stupid? - page 6. (Read 15506 times)

vip
Activity: 756
Merit: 503
This is hopeless.  You're not dealing with a rational post-enlightenment mind capable of being persuaded by facts and logic.

FirstAssScent is a superstitious primitive, living a demon-haunted world where inanimate objects possess intentions and control human behavior.

I believe you're right. I just hope another gun doesn't drag an innocent civilian out into a public place to shoot up a bunch of unarmed people again.

Wow... A delusional user agreeing with another very delusional user.

This is beyond stupid and it is quite funny!
vip
Activity: 756
Merit: 503
Just because you can't wrap your stunted mind around the concept that a tool is morally neutral and the user determines the use of it, doesn't make my arguments weak. Rather, it makes yours weak.

There is not such thing as 'morally neutral' tools as there is not such thing as "morally right" or "morally wrong" tools. This is a pathetic fallacy. You are assigning a human quality to an inanimate object. It is not the object itself which determines principles for proper conduct (or rather how principles for proper conduct should be), but the action performed with the object.

Moreover, no one is contesting that the final user do not determine the use of (or his purpose to use) the firearm. You are arguing that guns (which includes firearms) are not designed to kill and only the final user determines the main purpose of the design. The premise of your argument is false because you are denying the intent of the designer.

By the way, where is the reference for the statistics you published?
vip
Activity: 756
Merit: 503
and here they are folks, arguing over made up scenarios and fake or poorly thought out statistics blatantly designed to help one side or the other.

Way to piss off both myrkul and augustocroppo Wink

When I see complete stupidity I can't help myself, it's just too easy Tongue

Yes, I agree, it is too easy do not take part in the debate and then mock people without present any meaningful argument. I am inclined to think that 'in the gun debate' you are both more stupid than Myrkul. If you have anything substantial to debate rather than the thread question, you are welcome to present it as you wish.

No... No, I am not pissed off. If I did not enjoyed what I am doing, I would not participate in the debate or reply to you both.

hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
This is hopeless.  You're not dealing with a rational post-enlightenment mind capable of being persuaded by facts and logic.

FirstAssScent is a superstitious primitive, living a demon-haunted world where inanimate objects possess intentions and control human behavior.

I believe you're right. I just hope another gun doesn't drag an innocent civilian out into a public place to shoot up a bunch of unarmed people again.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
a tool is morally neutral and the user determines the use of it

Try to understand:
A gun shoots projectiles. That's all it does, that's all it's designed to do.
A club hits things. That's all it does, that's all it's designed to do.
A knife cuts things. That's all it does, that's all it's designed to do.

Some people use guns to kill people. Some people use guns to protect their families.
Some people use clubs to kill people. Some people use clubs to hit leather-wrapped balls.
Some people use knives to kill people. Some people use knives to cut their meat.

This is hopeless.  You're not dealing with a rational post-enlightenment mind capable of being persuaded by facts and logic.

FirstAssScent is a superstitious primitive, living a demon-haunted world where inanimate objects possess intentions and control human behavior.


hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
Sure. But if you didn't own a gun, you wouldn't feel safe. That's what that comes to mind when I read many posts.

Perhaps the gun nuts feel unsafe without a gun in America. I don't have a gun, nor do most people I know have a gun, and we feel very safe. And I mean, very very safe.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
Myrkul thinks drills are to spin a chuck. He thinks lamps are used as a stand for lampshades. He thinks monitors are used to emit light.

Close. Lamps are used as a stand for a lightbulb. They're also a convenient place to put a switch. That they also offer a way to hold a lampshade is an added bonus, since it makes a lamp a much nicer thing to have in your room, rather than just a bare bulb.

Drills are indeed used to spin things. Often drillbits, but not always. I have a bit that makes the drill into a saw. I have another whole set that turn it into a screwdriver. I don't have, but you can buy, "bits" that turn a drill into pretty much any power tool. It is, after all, just a motor attached to a chuck.

A monitor is indeed designed to emit light. Light of specific colors, in specific patterns. The light from my laptop often lights my way across my bedroom in the dark. More often, of course, I use it to look at those patterns of light and derive information from them.

Don't you just hate it when your attempt at ridicule backfires?
It didn't backfire. 

Maybe it didn't actually backfire, but you were definately shooting blanks.  It's not like Myrkul and I see things level, so I wish some of you guys would try harder.  I might be entertained if some of you were on his level, but so far I think that most of you guys are engaging in a battle of wits unarmed.

It didn't backfire because myrkul was serious. And he needs to be serious to back up his claims about what he thinks guns are for. Myrkul's response is exactly what I expected and predicted. His strange views are, well strange. And that makes his arguments weak, especially about the usage of guns.
Just because you can't wrap your stunted mind around the concept that a tool is morally neutral and the user determines the use of it, doesn't make my arguments weak. Rather, it makes yours weak.

Try to understand:
A gun shoots projectiles. That's all it does, that's all it's designed to do.
A club hits things. That's all it does, that's all it's designed to do.
A knife cuts things. That's all it does, that's all it's designed to do.

Some people use guns to kill people. Some people use guns to protect their families.
Some people use clubs to kill people. Some people use clubs to hit leather-wrapped balls.
Some people use knives to kill people. Some people use knives to cut their meat.
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
Myrkul thinks drills are to spin a chuck. He thinks lamps are used as a stand for lampshades. He thinks monitors are used to emit light.

Close. Lamps are used as a stand for a lightbulb. They're also a convenient place to put a switch. That they also offer a way to hold a lampshade is an added bonus, since it makes a lamp a much nicer thing to have in your room, rather than just a bare bulb.

Drills are indeed used to spin things. Often drillbits, but not always. I have a bit that makes the drill into a saw. I have another whole set that turn it into a screwdriver. I don't have, but you can buy, "bits" that turn a drill into pretty much any power tool. It is, after all, just a motor attached to a chuck.

A monitor is indeed designed to emit light. Light of specific colors, in specific patterns. The light from my laptop often lights my way across my bedroom in the dark. More often, of course, I use it to look at those patterns of light and derive information from them.

Don't you just hate it when your attempt at ridicule backfires?
It didn't backfire. 

Maybe it didn't actually backfire, but you were definately shooting blanks.  It's not like Myrkul and I see things level, so I wish some of you guys would try harder.  I might be entertained if some of you were on his level, but so far I think that most of you guys are engaging in a battle of wits unarmed.

It didn't backfire because myrkul was serious. And he needs to be serious to back up his claims about what he thinks guns are for. Myrkul's response is exactly what I expected and predicted. His strange views are, well strange. And that makes his arguments weak, especially about the usage of guns.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
.... I admit... Girls with weapons I actually find quite hot Tongue I can't help myself.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=352596&stc=1&d=1333127166

FAPFAPFAPFAPFPAPFAPFPAPP
You should see the videos of them actually shooting the things.

Much jigglage.

I spent many teenage hours watching "Bikini girls and machine guns" ,"Bikini girls and machine guns2" etc (apologies if I got the name wrong).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6e6n1ODDth4

Quality entertainment, right there. They kept nearly falling over. Maybe they should have been firing from the hip. It's not like they're going to hit anything anyway.
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1005

The debate should be about what makes the US such an intrinsically unsafe and fear ridden society, and how that could be alleviated.

http://cogitansiuvenis.blogspot.com/2012/07/is-america-really-more-violent-than.html

Taken as a whole, the United States is safer than Europe.  Although this article doesn't touch it, this is also true for murder unless you are someone who has first hand contact with criminal elements, as roughly 80% of murders in this country can still be connected to people with a prior criminal history; and that stat is actually much lower in Europe.  (I admit, I do not have access to those stats right now)  This is not to say this is acceptable, since many of those people are simply drug addicts or family members and not otherwise inclined toward criminal activity themselves, but it does put the murder rate into perspective.  Furthermore, as is true in Europe, some individual states (and particular cities) are safer than others.  Generally speaking, those US states with lower crime rates also have lower legal barriers for a citizen to obtain a firearms license.  This may not be cause & effect, admittedly, as states with higher crime rates might be more inclined to pass weapons restrictions as a result.  However, in every case wherein gun laws were relaxed for the law abiding, crime rates have decreased.  There is one city in Georgia that famously passed a law compelling all households to buy and keep a weapon, due to a very high local crime rate in 1982.  That law is still in effect, and that city has the lowest crime rate in Georgia today.

I live in Australia and feel safe. We have twice as many assaults but only one-fifth the murders that occur in the US. Our fights tend to be non-lethal.

Regardless, why is it that so many Americans feel unsafe? If you read the "gun control" threads, you'd think all US citizens were under constant threat of annihilation from their fellow citizens or their government. If the average law abiding US citizen is as safe as I am, why don't they think they are?
Where do you get the idea that Americans feel unsafe?  I feel much safer than I would if I lived in a country where I was not allowed to own a gun.

Sure. But if you didn't own a gun, you wouldn't feel safe. That's what that comes to mind when I read many posts.

This is the point I suppose, and I'll be the first to admit it's not a very good one. I'm not attempting to prove anything, I just want more (sensible) explanations of how you think about your freedoms, guns and so forth.
Na, I'd still feel plenty safe without a gun as well.  The stats MoonShadow has posted (and admittedly not verified) above only further prove my point, assuming their validity: criminals with guns generally leave the average US citizen alone moreso that criminals in other countries (who know that those average citizens do not carry weaponry).  So, I feel safer in the knowledge that a criminal might think that I have a gun, even if I do not, and will leave me alone for that reason.
legendary
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1000
I want one LOL Tongue
donator
Activity: 2058
Merit: 1007
Poor impulse control.
.... I admit... Girls with weapons I actually find quite hot Tongue I can't help myself.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=352596&stc=1&d=1333127166

FAPFAPFAPFAPFPAPFAPFPAPP
You should see the videos of them actually shooting the things.

Much jigglage.

I spent many teenage hours watching "Bikini girls and machine guns" ,"Bikini girls and machine guns2" etc (apologies if I got the name wrong).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6e6n1ODDth4
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
.... I admit... Girls with weapons I actually find quite hot Tongue I can't help myself.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=352596&stc=1&d=1333127166

FAPFAPFAPFAPFPAPFAPFPAPP
You should see the videos of them actually shooting the things.

Much jigglage.
donator
Activity: 2058
Merit: 1007
Poor impulse control.

The debate should be about what makes the US such an intrinsically unsafe and fear ridden society, and how that could be alleviated.

http://cogitansiuvenis.blogspot.com/2012/07/is-america-really-more-violent-than.html

Taken as a whole, the United States is safer than Europe.  Although this article doesn't touch it, this is also true for murder unless you are someone who has first hand contact with criminal elements, as roughly 80% of murders in this country can still be connected to people with a prior criminal history; and that stat is actually much lower in Europe.  (I admit, I do not have access to those stats right now)  This is not to say this is acceptable, since many of those people are simply drug addicts or family members and not otherwise inclined toward criminal activity themselves, but it does put the murder rate into perspective.  Furthermore, as is true in Europe, some individual states (and particular cities) are safer than others.  Generally speaking, those US states with lower crime rates also have lower legal barriers for a citizen to obtain a firearms license.  This may not be cause & effect, admittedly, as states with higher crime rates might be more inclined to pass weapons restrictions as a result.  However, in every case wherein gun laws were relaxed for the law abiding, crime rates have decreased.  There is one city in Georgia that famously passed a law compelling all households to buy and keep a weapon, due to a very high local crime rate in 1982.  That law is still in effect, and that city has the lowest crime rate in Georgia today.

I live in Australia and feel safe. We have twice as many assaults but only one-fifth the murders that occur in the US. Our fights tend to be non-lethal.

Regardless, why is it that so many Americans feel unsafe? If you read the "gun control" threads, you'd think all US citizens were under constant threat of annihilation from their fellow citizens or their government. If the average law abiding US citizen is as safe as I am, why don't they think they are?
Where do you get the idea that Americans feel unsafe?  I feel much safer than I would if I lived in a country where I was not allowed to own a gun.

Sure. But if you didn't own a gun, you wouldn't feel safe. That's what that comes to mind when I read many posts.

This is the point I suppose, and I'll be the first to admit it's not a very good one. I'm not attempting to prove anything, I just want more (sensible) explanations of how you think about your freedoms, guns and so forth.

legendary
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1000
.... I admit... Girls with weapons I actually find quite hot Tongue I can't help myself.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=352596&stc=1&d=1333127166

FAPFAPFAPFAPFPAPFAPFPAPP
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
......
/enjoy your gun fetish

Hey, that's rude! I dont think anyone here actually has sex with guns, no matter how much they fancy them.

You are confusing the word "fetish" with the word "kink."  Don't feel too bad, it's a common mistake.  Even the smarty-pants liberals on DailyKos do it all the time.

But once you know the actual, completely non-sexual, definition of fetish (an power object imbued with mystical substances) you start to realize how foolish (and perverse) misuse of the term makes one appear to those with error-free vocabularies.

Now stay off those naughty websites before they further corrupt and degrade your powers of articulation.   Wink
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1005

The debate should be about what makes the US such an intrinsically unsafe and fear ridden society, and how that could be alleviated.

http://cogitansiuvenis.blogspot.com/2012/07/is-america-really-more-violent-than.html

Taken as a whole, the United States is safer than Europe.  Although this article doesn't touch it, this is also true for murder unless you are someone who has first hand contact with criminal elements, as roughly 80% of murders in this country can still be connected to people with a prior criminal history; and that stat is actually much lower in Europe.  (I admit, I do not have access to those stats right now)  This is not to say this is acceptable, since many of those people are simply drug addicts or family members and not otherwise inclined toward criminal activity themselves, but it does put the murder rate into perspective.  Furthermore, as is true in Europe, some individual states (and particular cities) are safer than others.  Generally speaking, those US states with lower crime rates also have lower legal barriers for a citizen to obtain a firearms license.  This may not be cause & effect, admittedly, as states with higher crime rates might be more inclined to pass weapons restrictions as a result.  However, in every case wherein gun laws were relaxed for the law abiding, crime rates have decreased.  There is one city in Georgia that famously passed a law compelling all households to buy and keep a weapon, due to a very high local crime rate in 1982.  That law is still in effect, and that city has the lowest crime rate in Georgia today.

I live in Australia and feel safe. We have twice as many assaults but only one-fifth the murders that occur in the US. Our fights tend to be non-lethal.

Regardless, why is it that so many Americans feel unsafe? If you read the "gun control" threads, you'd think all US citizens were under constant threat of annihilation from their fellow citizens or their government. If the average law abiding US citizen is as safe as I am, why don't they think they are?
Where do you get the idea that Americans feel unsafe?  I feel much safer than I would if I lived in a country where I was not allowed to own a gun.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

The debate should be about what makes the US such an intrinsically unsafe and fear ridden society, and how that could be alleviated.

http://cogitansiuvenis.blogspot.com/2012/07/is-america-really-more-violent-than.html

Taken as a whole, the United States is safer than Europe. 

I live in Australia and feel safe.

Regardless, why is it that so many Americans feel unsafe? If you read the "gun control" threads, you'd think all US citizens were under constant threat of annihilation from their fellow citizens or their government. If the average law abiding US citizen is as safe as I am, why don't they think they are?

The threat of annihilation or oppression needn't be "constant" (that's merely your strawman).

Life is intrinsically unsafe, and the price of liberty is eternal vigilance. 

In America, we are willing to pay that price because we are free and sovereign individuals.

In Europe and Australia, the slavish rabble have never risen up to secure their liberty and are unwilling to be eternally vigilant. 

Magna Carta was a good start but unfortunately there was no real follow through.  The French Revolution was admirable but they bungled it with Egalitarian Statism.

Enjoy your child-like feelings of safety, all warm and snuggly and resonsibility-free, protected by your benevolent owner, the Queen. 

Wasn't her Christmas speech lovely?   Cheesy

I prefer Freedom and its concomitant responsibility, danger, and stress.



hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
and here they are folks, arguing over made up scenarios and fake or poorly thought out statistics blatantly designed to help one side or the other.

Way to piss off both myrkul and augustocroppo Wink

When I see complete stupidity I can't help myself, it's just too easy Tongue

I'm not pro guns. I'm anti-gun control. I'm just pointing out that these things are tools. Guns are rarely used to shoot someone. Much more often, they are used to prevent crime. This doesn't make the news, though, because it's much less exciting than when a gun is used to commit a crime. Often, a gun doesn't even need to be fired to be used in defense, and even more often, it doesn't even need to be drawn. Criminals avoid armed citizens. That's a fact. If guns are made illegal, by definition, only criminals will have guns.

The gun control argument isn't anti-guns, As has been pointed out, they'll need guns to take them from the average Joe. They just want the guns concentrated in the hands of government agents. I even heard one proponent say that "Government employees don't go on rampages with their guns." Which is patently false. Even discounting the "going postal" phenomenon, there is a specific group of government employees whose job it is to go on murderous rampages with their guns. At the moment, they are being primarily used overseas, but historically, once the citizenry is disarmed at home, this group is turned upon them:
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
Quote
In the gun debate who do you think is the most stupid?

That's an easy one.  FirstAssScent is obviously the most stupid in the gun debate.

The poor thing doesn't even realized that only individuals have rights.  It's very sad, so I ignore it.
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