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Topic: Incoming Avalon News 8/9/2013 - page 34. (Read 186720 times)

legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 1083
Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile
August 28, 2013, 05:18:59 AM
I don't think ASIC mining scales to suit big farms. I think it is best for home users with no staff or rent overheads, I might be wrong, but so far none of the big projects make sense on paper unless BTC/USD starts doubling in price every few months.

+1  

You are very right about this.  Bitcoin mining does not make any business sense.  Only when projections of ever increasing BTC/USD exchange rate are included a business plan, the numbers add up.

Big farms have big capital expenditures, operating costs AND ever decreasing profits.  How is it attractive from a business perspective?  It is extremely risky, needs lots of capital and profits are decreasing every two weeks.  You need to add more capital to invest in more hardware and infrastructure to maintain the same profit level.  But even then the the actual profit/capital invested is decreasing as time goes on.

If you build 14M data center, the capacity of that center might be reached within first few months, then what? You build another one?  Another 14M?



Its not correct that a rising bitcoin exchange price is good for anything. If you await that the bitcoin price is rising then it would be smarter to simply buy bitcoins.
sr. member
Activity: 540
Merit: 250
BestRate.org
August 28, 2013, 04:11:12 AM
Yifu ripped us, day by day by day. Day by day lies.  The men must in court.
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 1001
August 28, 2013, 01:06:03 AM
Prison? Jeez.. I'm as upset with the delays as anyone, but this seems a little harsh.

I do agree though that Avalon are basically scammers at this point.

intentional fraud,if proven, should be punishable by jail especially if there is no restitution to the victims. we can't have people arbitrarily held accountable.

Could not agree more.  As I said before, to hurt the gangsta is to take his money, that seems what he
craves.  His actions are criminal, by any legal standard, that is besides the  civil  liabilities  incurred.
Well played, a good legal team can bury him financially for the  rest of his life, besides the time he will
have to serve.  We are talking about several Million $ - that is no chickenfeed, not by any standard.
When you get caught embezzling Millions, you usually end up doing time in the US.

Sonny V. from BFL got away with it(slap on the wrist only),so will Y I FU   Roll Eyes
eve
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
August 28, 2013, 12:43:08 AM
So where did that Avalon chip shipment that was tracked to Hong Kong end up, at Bitmine?



A possibility Bitmine have to pay extra to shipped the chips maybe another $2k or so to Yifu, so he can ship his batch a head of others,.
newbie
Activity: 52
Merit: 0
August 28, 2013, 12:31:33 AM
Prison? Jeez.. I'm as upset with the delays as anyone, but this seems a little harsh.

I do agree though that Avalon are basically scammers at this point.

intentional fraud,if proven, should be punishable by jail especially if there is no restitution to the victims. we can't have people arbitrarily held accountable.

Could not agree more.  As I said before, to hurt the gangsta is to take his money, that seems what he
craves.  His actions are criminal, by any legal standard, that is besides the  civil  liabilities  incurred.
Well played, a good legal team can bury him financially for the  rest of his life, besides the time he will
have to serve.  We are talking about several Million $ - that is no chickenfeed, not by any standard.
When you get caught embezzling Millions, you usually end up doing time in the US.
erk
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 500
August 28, 2013, 12:23:47 AM
So where did that Avalon chip shipment that was tracked to Hong Kong end up, at Bitmine?

hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 500
August 28, 2013, 12:12:46 AM
Prison? Jeez.. I'm as upset with the delays as anyone, but this seems a little harsh.

I do agree though that Avalon are basically scammers at this point.

intentional fraud,if proven, should be punishable by jail especially if there is no restitution to the victims. we can't have people arbitrarily held accountable.
legendary
Activity: 896
Merit: 1006
First 100% Liquid Stablecoin Backed by Gold
August 28, 2013, 12:09:55 AM
I don't think ASIC mining scales to suit big farms. I think it is best for home users with no staff or rent overheads, I might be wrong, but so far none of the big projects make sense on paper unless BTC/USD starts doubling in price every few months.

+1  

You are very right about this.  Bitcoin mining does not make any business sense.  Only when projections of ever increasing BTC/USD exchange rate are included a business plan, the numbers add up.

Big farms have big capital expenditures, operating costs AND ever decreasing profits.  How is it attractive from a business perspective?  It is extremely risky, needs lots of capital and profits are decreasing every two weeks.  You need to add more capital to invest in more hardware and infrastructure to maintain the same profit level.  But even then the the actual profit/capital invested is decreasing as time goes on.

If you build 14M data center, the capacity of that center might be reached within first few months, then what? You build another one?  Another 14M?


Don't forget to double your electricity costs to allow for the air conditioning.  If you have to hire even a single staff member to run the show, their wages would buy a lot of electricity. Data center space is not cheap either.

Good point on the AC. 
I got an interesting idea regarding this.  Looking for trusted hero members to partner up.  If any are interested PM me plz.
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
August 27, 2013, 11:27:55 PM
Don't forget to double your electricity costs to allow for the air conditioning.  If you have to hire even a single staff member to run the show, their wages would buy a lot of electricity. Data center space is not cheap either.

Good point on the AC. 
erk
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 500
August 27, 2013, 11:11:25 PM
It's quite laughable, 4PH/s of obsolete 110nm Avalon chips with no chance of ROI, probably wont even cover power costs.

Don't be ridiculous. It's going to be quite some time before Avalon chips can't cover power costs.

17.9 PH @ $100 exchange rate & $0.10 per kWh.  It could happen mid next year.  If you believe some of the "exponential growth forever" kids it will happen in 10 weeks or some nonsense.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/break-even-difficulty-by-hardware-efficiency-power-cost-value-of-btc-281279
Don't forget to double your electricity costs to allow for the air conditioning.  If you have to hire even a single staff member to run the show, their wages would buy a lot of electricity. Data center space is not cheap either.

The article also said Bitmine were in Hong Kong where the electricity is way more than $0.10 per kWh.
http://www.hkelectric.com/web/CommercialAndIndustrialServices/BillingPaymentAndElectricityTariff/TariffTable/Index_en.htm
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
August 27, 2013, 10:52:57 PM
It's quite laughable, 4PH/s of obsolete 110nm Avalon chips with no chance of ROI, probably wont even cover power costs.

Don't be ridiculous. It's going to be quite some time before Avalon chips can't cover power costs.

17.9 PH @ $100 exchange rate & $0.10 per kWh.  It could happen mid next year.  If you believe some of the "exponential growth forever" kids it will happen in 10 weeks or some nonsense.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/break-even-difficulty-by-hardware-efficiency-power-cost-value-of-btc-281279
erk
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 500
August 27, 2013, 10:43:51 PM
The other chips (bitfury and their own 28nm) mentioned in the article make more sense for long term mining (as stated).

I don't think they were planning on getting to 4PH on Avalon chips.... you would need your own power station.
The part of the article that didn't make sense to me was the "supercomputer"?  A super computer would be crappy as a hasher compared to an asic.

Maybe the whole article is full of crap... /shrug

Even if they get better chips, the hash rate is rising faster than Moore's Law, which works on hardware performance doubling every 18mths. I don't think ASIC mining scales to suit big farms. I think it is best for home users with no staff or rent overheads, I might be wrong, but so far none of the big projects make sense on paper unless BTC/USD starts doubling in price every few months.

I bet when the big farms made their plans, they didn't know about KNCminer, Hashfast, Cointerra, BFL 28nm etc.



legendary
Activity: 3878
Merit: 1193
August 27, 2013, 10:40:23 PM
It's quite laughable, 4PH/s of obsolete 110nm Avalon chips with no chance of ROI, probably wont even cover power costs.

Don't be ridiculous. It's going to be quite some time before Avalon chips can't cover power costs.
sr. member
Activity: 490
Merit: 255
August 27, 2013, 10:38:56 PM
The other chips (bitfury and their own 28nm) mentioned in the article make more sense for long term mining (as stated).

I don't think they were planning on getting to 4PH on Avalon chips.... you would need your own power station.
The part of the article that didn't make sense to me was the "supercomputer"?  A super computer would be crappy as a hasher compared to an asic.

Maybe the whole article is full of crap... /shrug
erk
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 500
August 27, 2013, 10:34:45 PM
I am sure everyone has seen it already... but BigTimeCoin has received his 4/17 bulk chip purchase.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3021324

There was also a rumor that Zefir received 4 batches over the weekend.
http://www.coindesk.com/bitmine-to-drop-4phs-of-asic-power-onto-bitcoin-network-before-april/

Maybe like rip van winkle... Yifu has awoke from his slumber to see that world has changed (and maybe unlike Rip, Yify has started to do something about it).

It's quite laughable, 4PH/s of obsolete 110nm Avalon chips with no chance of ROI, probably wont even cover power costs. What were they thinking? What sort of a business plan is that? I know, more must be better!

newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
August 27, 2013, 10:28:48 PM
I am sure everyone has seen it already... but BigTimeCoin has received his 4/17 bulk chip purchase.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3021324

There was also a rumor that Zefir received 4 batches over the weekend.
http://www.coindesk.com/bitmine-to-drop-4phs-of-asic-power-onto-bitcoin-network-before-april/

Maybe like rip van winkle... Yifu has awoke from his slumber to see that world has changed (and maybe unlike Rip, Yify has started to do something about it).
newbie
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
August 27, 2013, 06:37:19 PM
the "i'm not dead thread."

Just got off the plane, expect lots of news tomorrow.



People who believe in this fool deserve what's coming to them!
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1026
In Cryptocoins I Trust
August 27, 2013, 06:36:18 PM
Prison? Jeez.. I'm as upset with the delays as anyone, but this seems a little harsh.

I do agree though that Avalon are basically scammers at this point.
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
August 27, 2013, 06:33:35 PM
I want Yifu's head on a stick.

Its bad to fall of the earth. It's for a small kid to say i'm not death after no communicatio to people who gave you millions. The worst part is to lie / scam and still not doing anything the third time.


+1

I just want to see Avalon top managers in prison. Don't really care about chips or refund. They can have it back.

+1
hero member
Activity: 746
Merit: 502
Looking for advertising deal
August 27, 2013, 06:29:50 PM
I'd buy all 500 at $10 USD per chip.  Not interested at $31 per chip...

lol who cares how much you are willing to pay
The point is that it's 90% confirmed that those chips are widely available in china.
Still waiting for photo with timestamp from that seller tho.
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