Topic: India makes ownership of Bitcoin criminal offense - How to respond? - page 4. (Read 1481 times)
February 06, 2021, 05:19:53 PM
Is bitcoin a private crypto currency? I think this are those altcoins created by projects led by people that might disrupt their future digital currency. I hope they would be educated about crypto currencies and I hope the best result for our users in this fight. If they could just learn and understand what it is.
February 06, 2021, 03:24:04 PM
India has been a factory churning out excellent software engineering talent to the world.
Banning Bitcoin wont hold good for this country's future.
Just like Venezuela tried to force its crypto to the people no one wanted it. This will be a similar fate.
They will just drive Bitcoin underground in India which is good thing because decentralized exchanges will flourish and India can be the brain child of Decentralized exchanges' success story.
To me it looks like the bankers in Davos convinced the PM of India to go this route. while other can watch if it works or not. The PM has been fooled again to experiment with his people first because other countries cant afford to destroy its people with experiments like this to keep people under control and in a despondent state.
Banning Bitcoin wont hold good for this country's future.
Just like Venezuela tried to force its crypto to the people no one wanted it. This will be a similar fate.
They will just drive Bitcoin underground in India which is good thing because decentralized exchanges will flourish and India can be the brain child of Decentralized exchanges' success story.
To me it looks like the bankers in Davos convinced the PM of India to go this route. while other can watch if it works or not. The PM has been fooled again to experiment with his people first because other countries cant afford to destroy its people with experiments like this to keep people under control and in a despondent state.
February 06, 2021, 02:52:55 PM
~
I snipped the rest of the discussion so that we can get back on the topic of Cryptocurrency.
The political ambitions and machinations of BJP are a different beast altogether and it is not our job to do anything about this juggernaut.
The topic is about the politics and how an elected government in a democracy could bring up laws and regulation without following democracy method. I am not involved in active politics but i am not a fan of right wing fascist politics as we already saw dictators like Hitler and Mussolini and you do not need another in the near future as the world is tired of these political regimes polarizing people with lies and propaganda. I snipped the rest of the discussion so that we can get back on the topic of Cryptocurrency.
The political ambitions and machinations of BJP are a different beast altogether and it is not our job to do anything about this juggernaut.
Lets follow the simple formula and leave the politics out of it.
(pun directed to you ) but i personally know people that are affected with the rules and regulation in the past several years and i know many that were forced to shut their business in the past couple of years. 
February 06, 2021, 04:44:05 AM
--INDIAN BITCOINERS ATTEMPTING HARA-KIRI THROUGH POLITICAL DISCUSSION SNIPPED--
Take a look at the history in which how the government always approach any protest, they try to make them anti national, if we set out to protest then they will make us the dark net drug suppliers and money laundering group and they can make our life a living hell in the name of investigation.
Take a look at the history in which how the government always approach any protest, they try to make them anti national, if we set out to protest then they will make us the dark net drug suppliers and money laundering group and they can make our life a living hell in the name of investigation.
The political ambitions and machinations of BJP are a different beast altogether and it is not our job to do anything about this juggernaut.
Crypto is for the young, tech-savvy population. It is also useful for those who are just beginning to see the benefits of Digital India. (Checkout TikTok stars making money on DOGE in west). It fits perfectly with the Digital India initiative. All crypto exchanges in India are KYC'd so there can be no ML issues with them. Those exchanges are also supporting several ERC-20 tokens which allow the quite, little programmers to contribute and earn from those projects. If those exchanges or holding such tokens is criminalized, it will be a big setback for all those people working on these new opportunities.
Repeat after me,
"Modiji does not want that"
"Modiji wants Digital India"
"Modiji wants to help the youth"
"Modiji loves youth"
"Youth love crypto"
Hence,
"Modiji Loves Crypto" #Modijilovescrypto
Tweet it, Trend it.
Lets follow the simple formula and leave the politics out of it.
February 06, 2021, 04:27:54 AM
It means they fear Bitcoin!
This proves Bitcoin is effective, as a competitor to their monetary systems.
Hail Bitcoin and stick with it
If they accuse you for holding Bitcoin,
what evidence do they have?
Maybe that you transferred BTC from an exchange?
Tell them you sent the coins to another person, not to yourself.
And when you spend Btc to make a purchase online , pretend that it was not you sending them, but you asked another person to do the transaction for you.
How can they prove it's not true?
This proves Bitcoin is effective, as a competitor to their monetary systems.
Hail Bitcoin and stick with it
If they accuse you for holding Bitcoin,
what evidence do they have?
Maybe that you transferred BTC from an exchange?
Tell them you sent the coins to another person, not to yourself.
And when you spend Btc to make a purchase online , pretend that it was not you sending them, but you asked another person to do the transaction for you.
How can they prove it's not true?
February 06, 2021, 04:13:15 AM
Well.... follow the lesson learned from the Prohibition of Alcohol in the USA. the Prohibition in the United States was a nationwide constitutional ban on the production, importation, transportation, and sale of alcoholic beverages from 1920 to 1933 Source : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition_in_the_United_States
So, when they banned it, people started bootlegging (doing it illegally) and the government lost Millions in taxes. All smuggled goods evaded taxes... so the government eventually gave up and they lifted the ban.
A ban makes the use more appealing to a lot of people and the developers will cash in on this opportunity to develop more decentralized services to cater for this need, which is almost impossible to stop.
So, when they banned it, people started bootlegging (doing it illegally) and the government lost Millions in taxes. All smuggled goods evaded taxes... so the government eventually gave up and they lifted the ban.
A ban makes the use more appealing to a lot of people and the developers will cash in on this opportunity to develop more decentralized services to cater for this need, which is almost impossible to stop.
February 06, 2021, 03:40:58 AM
Response from the users
With a user base of at least 5 million, the cryptocurrency users in India are not some insignificant group. They are feeling helpless, because of the lack of unity. It is worthwhile to note that at least one opposition politician (Milind Deora of the Congress Party) has come out in support of Bitcoin. Cryptocurrency users in India needs to unite and take a political stance against those who are hostile to the idea of BTC. State elections are due in four crucial states in the next 2-3 months (West Bengal, Tamil Nadu, Kerala and Assam). Bitcoiners need to use their votes effectively, in order to defeat the political factions that are in favor of the Bitcoin ban. Tactical voting needs to be undertaken.
In my opinion the key moment in the fact that very often politicians uses lots of moot points in order to manipulate with votes and appreciations of voters. The situation with cryptocurrencies and Bitcoin in your country is not the exception. The saddest in all this that users are as always suffer from it the most. Hope the situation will change for the most suitable variant for users.
February 06, 2021, 03:21:19 AM
If you compare the WazirX BTC/INR chart with Binance's BTC/USDT chart, you will know why we get these kind of fear mongering statements or Ban statements happen in India from time to time.
Most of us knew that in the current situation of India(Covid), The finance minister and all the other high ranked politicians have better things to do. There was nothing of such regulations were going to come in the budget this year.
Personally, it was a great dump for me to buy BTC/ETH, and I did. And as soon as the minister started budget the price went up back to USDT rates.
Most of us knew that in the current situation of India(Covid), The finance minister and all the other high ranked politicians have better things to do. There was nothing of such regulations were going to come in the budget this year.
Personally, it was a great dump for me to buy BTC/ETH, and I did. And as soon as the minister started budget the price went up back to USDT rates.
February 06, 2021, 01:19:03 AM
When this draft was leaked couple years ago I panicked but now I have learned not to, we'll figure when it becomes a law, pretty sure they will give enough time dispose crypto if implemented.
Bill doesn't say about any criminal offenses tho.
Bill doesn't say about any criminal offenses tho.
A country-specific ban can never be implemented. Because cryptocurrency is easily transferrable from one country to another, since it is a digital asset. If Bitcoin is illegal in one country and legal in another, then the users will simply use markets in the other countries where it is legal. Also, cryptocurrency is decentralized and it is not possible to link a particular cryptocurrency wallet with a real identity.
If India bans the ownership of cryptocurrency, then most probably the users will ask their friends in other countries to claim the ownership of the wallet (the authorities don't have any way to find out whether a particular wallet is controlled by the Indian national or the foreigner). That will happen, even if the passwords are not shared with the other person. When there is a requirement to sell the coins, the foreign national would do that and send the proceedings as a gift to the Indian national. In the end, the Indian government will lose tax money that they could have received from the sale of Bitcoins.
February 05, 2021, 11:06:04 PM
When this draft was leaked couple years ago I panicked but now I have learned not to, we'll figure when it becomes a law, pretty sure they will give enough time dispose crypto if implemented.
Bill doesn't say about any criminal offenses tho.
Bill doesn't say about any criminal offenses tho.
February 05, 2021, 10:33:06 PM
Take a look at this article:
https://swarajyamag.com/economy/why-india-should-buy-bitcoin
Why India Should Buy Bitcoin
This was the topmost article in Swarajya, a news website that is run by a right-wing group that has close links to the ruling party. This may be an indication that at least some circles within the government are not comfortable with the proposed ban on cryptocurrency. And I believe that it is a good sign. And the article was one of the best I have ever read, which supports the legalization of cryptocurrency. And this figure caught my attention as well:
It claims that India is having some 2 million active cryptocurrency traders (don't ask me why figures for China are missing).
https://swarajyamag.com/economy/why-india-should-buy-bitcoin
Why India Should Buy Bitcoin
Quote
India should launch a digital rupee — and back it with digital gold. More broadly, India should champion decentralised cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin and Ethereum to safeguard national security, prevent deplatforming, attract international capital, strengthen monetary policy, deter financial fraud, accelerate technological development, and hasten India’s ascendance as a global power.
This was the topmost article in Swarajya, a news website that is run by a right-wing group that has close links to the ruling party. This may be an indication that at least some circles within the government are not comfortable with the proposed ban on cryptocurrency. And I believe that it is a good sign. And the article was one of the best I have ever read, which supports the legalization of cryptocurrency. And this figure caught my attention as well:
It claims that India is having some 2 million active cryptocurrency traders (don't ask me why figures for China are missing).
February 05, 2021, 11:30:15 AM
@ eaLiTy, they are winning elections after elections, and this proves that the ruling combination enjoys widespread support. In 2019, they won the states of Arunachal Pradesh and Haryana. Last year, they won Bihar by such thumping margin despite 15 years of anti-incumbency. During the 2019 parliament elections, BJP alone won 37.4% of the vote, which is a ground breaking achievement. So we need to admit that they are very capable of winning the elections on their own.
Reports are coming out regarding the Bihar elections, they did not manipulate the EVM but the accusation is coming out in regards to the Form 20 used by the returning officer when calculating the total votes. Usually the returning officer calculate them and then the observer monitors everything and then the results are announced but in the Form 20 uploaded in the website the some of the returning officers signed the document well after results are announced and that is not how elections are done.And one of the reasons for this rise is the poor performance of the opposition parties. They don't even have any capable leaders. And every time the BJP set up some trap, the opposition politicians just fall in to those traps.
I completely agree with you on this part, the opposition is not strong enough and they always fall for the trap the BJP set for them and they do not have a strong leader who can articulate things nor they are promoting people who are capable enough to take the leadership roles.So our primary concern is about the proposed bill against cryptocurrency and how to respond to it. amishmanish in one of his posts warned that if this thing gets political, then Bitcoiners will lose out. I have to partially agree with him. If Bitcoiners organize themselves politically, then the BJP and its supporters in the media will claim that those who are doing illegal activity have now decided to defeat them in the elections. These people are very expert in pushing fake propaganda. So whatever we need to do, it should be done discretely.
Take a look at the history in which how the government always approach any protest, they try to make them anti national, if we set out to protest then they will make us the dark net drug suppliers and money laundering group and they can make our life a living hell in the name of investigation. February 05, 2021, 06:06:01 AM
In my opinioin, soon we will see the same laws in other countries. Govs dont like money that they cant control
Too early to say that. There are a number of governments out there, which have taken a much more positive view about cryptocurrency. Japan is a prime example. They were the first country to fully legalize Bitcoin and the government attitudes haven't changed since then. The only issue is that the tax rates in Japan are a bit higher compared to the other territories and therefore we don't see a great deal of crypto-related businesses that are based there. Japan is having a very strong national currency and therefore the government doesn't have anything to worry from the usage of cryptocurrency. The same can't be said about third world nations such as China and India, where the national currency is heavily manipulated.
February 05, 2021, 01:02:30 AM
In my opinioin, soon we will see the same laws in other countries. Govs dont like money that they cant control
February 05, 2021, 12:35:43 AM
I think so too, it's mainly fear mongering just to open up capital and market to their own CBDC, but still the 10 year punishment still too harsh, as you mentioned it's even heavier punishment than rape WTF? I wonder how indian people respone to this kind of law.
But i bet majority of btc holders who uses it silently gonna be fine since no one know, and I doubt the government could fully detect all the people who uses BTC,other countries have tried but also seem to fail. I wonder what kind of method they gonna use.
But i bet majority of btc holders who uses it silently gonna be fine since no one know, and I doubt the government could fully detect all the people who uses BTC,other countries have tried but also seem to fail. I wonder what kind of method they gonna use.
They remained silent for so long. Only when the exchange rates shot up from $10,000 to $37,000 within 12 months time, they rose from their deep slumber. Now the government want a slice of the pie and they are attempting to do that with their CBDC shitcoin. The problem is that these guys don't have enough education or intelligence to understand the factors behind the rise of cryptocurrency. First, they need to understand that cryptocurrency became popular mostly because of its controlled supply principle and decentralized nature. The CBDC version of cryptocurrency won't be having any of these qualities and as a result it is doomed to fail.
February 04, 2021, 11:49:54 PM
The government itself knows that no matter what sort of laws they come up with, the complete eradication of cryptocurrency usage is not possible. That is why they want to terrorize the users with such harsh prison terms. Just imagine this. If this law is passed by the parliament, then anyone owning a particular code in his computer can be imprisoned for 10 years. On the other hand, the punishment for attempt to murder is also 10 years. Violent rape is punishable by a term of 7 years in jail. According to the Indian government, if you own cryptocurrency in your personal wallet, then you deserve more punishment compared to the rapists and murderers. So the intention is very clear. They are imposing disproportionate punishments, in order to create a feeling of fear in the mind of cryptocurrency users. And they believe that it will result in 99.99% of the cryptocurrency users selling their assets.
I think so too, it's mainly fear mongering just to open up capital and market to their own CBDC, but still the 10 year punishment still too harsh, as you mentioned it's even heavier punishment than rape WTF? I wonder how indian people respone to this kind of law.
But i bet majority of btc holders who uses it silently gonna be fine since no one know, and I doubt the government could fully detect all the people who uses BTC,other countries have tried but also seem to fail. I wonder what kind of method they gonna use.
February 04, 2021, 10:53:38 PM
If crypto has not yet been legalized in India it will take a long time for india to create ownership of bitcoin criminal offenses. Crypto and bitcoin are out of control although India wants to make bitcoin differently out of self-interest, it has not yet been legalized in the courts of their country. That's why you can't hide anything about crypto and I agree with you that if India wins a lawsuit it is one of the tools to spread social media news information about everything in their activity can be found.
February 04, 2021, 10:39:50 PM
Now what are the options that we have?
https://indiawantscrypto.net/
May be, update this in your OP.
Details: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/india-wants-bitcoin-5314760
This is a very good initiative launched by Nischal Shetty (CEO of the Wazir X exchange). I have emailed my MP explaining briefly why the usage of cryptocurrency should be encouraged and how India could lose out in the future with such regressive attitude (fortunately the parliamentarian who represents me is very well educated, unlike most of the illiterates in the government). Social media can be a very powerful tool, if we want to make our opinion heard. And from what I can see, it is already trending in Twitter:
February 04, 2021, 02:34:51 PM
Now what are the options that we have?
https://indiawantscrypto.net/
May be, update this in your OP.
Details: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/india-wants-bitcoin-5314760
February 04, 2021, 01:35:49 PM
WOW, that what I call harsh legislation!
Are you sure about making the ownership a criminal offense?! I read the news in Coindesk - https://www.coindesk.com/india-would-ban-private-cryptocurrencies-under-proposed-legislation, and they didn't mention anything about criminal offenses.
This is likely. If cryptocurrency or some of its types are outlawed, it will be on a par with drugs and other similar items that are withdrawn from civil circulation. You are not defending your ownership of drugs, are you?Are you sure about making the ownership a criminal offense?! I read the news in Coindesk - https://www.coindesk.com/india-would-ban-private-cryptocurrencies-under-proposed-legislation, and they didn't mention anything about criminal offenses.
I don't even know yet how the price of bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies will react if a law is passed in India banning cryptocurrency. On the one hand, without India, cryptocurrency may well exist and develop further, and on the other, this can be an example for other states.
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