Topic: Intersango exchange (formerly Britcoin) - page 5. (Read 75373 times)

: "Transfers made to our HSBC account on or after the 19th which have not been linked to your account will be delayed. HSBC has unexpectedly closed our account. They did so without any warning. We are working on alternative banking options, but of course are having trouble quickly opening a new account. Transfer made into the account after our records stop but before the account was actually closed will be delayed until we can obtain the records. "

Wow, that sounds bad. What's the latest? Obviously, I transferred a hundred pounds over on that day, and it isn't showing up at the intersango accounts page. :-O

This must all be very frustrating for you guys.

Thanks :-)

The terms and conditions have been updated.

An email was sent out notifying users.

Donald_Norman,

That looks better to me. I would go along with the Terms and Conditions if Term 12 was amended as you have suggested there.

Term 12 is currently :


You agree to indemnify, defend, and hold harmless Intersango Ltd, and its parent, affiliates, directors, officers and employees from and against any claim, liability, cost, damage or loss we may incur (including, without limitation, legal fees) as a result of the use of this website as well as but not limited to any violation by you of your obligations under these terms and conditions.


I guess we can tone it down to this :


You agree to indemnify and hold harmless Intersango Ltd, and its parent, affiliates, directors, officers and employees from and against any claim, liability, cost, damage or loss we may incur (including, without limitation, legal fees) as a result of any violation by you of your obligations under these terms and conditions. When in doubt, please obtain independent legal advice concerning the buying/selling/trading of Bitcoins under the local laws of your jurisdiction. 


What do you think ?

there are some functionality problems. i noticed last night that i could not cancel orders. I had orders that i was trying to cancel that i did not want to execute. i could not cancel them and they were executed.

today the orders are being held in a queue and i still cannot cancel them.

I have upgraded the market system to support two new order types.

Fill or Kill - the order will either by fulfilled completely or cancelled

Immediate or Cancel - the order will be filled as much as possible and then cancelled

These will be added to the API shortly.

Donald_Norman,

Sorry for the lateness of this reply.

As far as I can remember, there was no Terms and Conditions list to tick while setting up an account at bitmarket.eu. I just set the account straight up some number of months ago, and started trading. I have made loads of trades there and not had a problem with them yet.

In fact, based on my experience, I would say both bitmarket.eu and the old britcoin.co.uk are/were offering good services, regardless of the fact that--as the poster above has pointed out--their respective methods of moving btc and stirling around were/are different.

BTW, it occurs to me that maybe the *indemnify and defend* stuff was part of the Terms and Conditions list that had to be ticked in order to enable participation on the old britcoin website. If so, all I can say is I am a bit more careful/paranoid now than I was a few months ago! Back then, I might have not bothered reading the lawyer pages. Things are different now though.

Again, Thanks for all your efforts Donald_Norman :-)

I've used them for all my BTC purchases except the very first. The difference between them and exchanges are that they're only brokering¹ the trades - the buyer pays directly to the seller. They do escrow though, which means they could in theory do something funny once the BTC are released by the seller into your account. So far, as you state, I've heard of no such issues. I also like that there are no day traders, too small volume and there's a general price premium² above the popular exchanges.

I alway withdraw immediately though, there's simply no point in not doing it. I think it's good advice.

(There's also some basic persona verification being done when registering)

¹²) That's also why I wouldn't consider them to be a "competitor" to you.

alrite will do..thanks

I'm not sure I follow this correctly.

Admittedly I took only a cursory glance, but BitMarket.eu doesn't seem to have their identities up or a Terms of Service that I can find. The ToS we have is not just to protect us but also to protect user funds (ie we don't advocate illegal activity and if we find people using our services illegal we may have to report such things to protect not just our site but also our other users funds.)

I can't vouch for BitMarket.eu but relatively speaking I have not hear of them lying, stealing or being hacked or any combination thereof so that puts them at the head of the pack for most prominent bitcoin exchanges. However, I can't even see the company name behind BitMarket.eu (again maybe need to look a lot longer). I think they will be attending the European Bitcoin Conference, if so, that will add some credibility. However, they may simply just be a sponsor. I really cannot comment on BitMarket.eu. They may be amazing people. Logically however I'm uncertain why you would prefer them now unless there is a plethora of information about them which I have not been able to easily find.

A prominent member of Bitcoin once told me he did not want to promote Britcoin (he was promoting other exchanges which had lied to their users). His reason was because Britcoin used to say something to the effect of "Once you have bought your Bitcoins please withdraw them from the site and into your personal wallet." Perhaps we are overly paranoid about security to the degree that it hurts our marketing. It is pretty ironic. We also have a running joke that having your exchange hacked and riddled in other controversies might really help your SEO which may sadly be true.

As we're running a free service we must be patient with our legal advice. The man who is helping us (and in turn our users) is doing so pro bono. It is not that I am being slow on this, I simply cannot demand the lawyer's time unless there was something urgent.

I think I know what the problem is. Would you mind sending me your account login to [email protected]? The front-end of the site is simply display, but internally everything should be fine.

Thanks.

: "Give me a couple days."

Take your time, I'm in no rush whatsoever. BitMarket.eu is just fine for me in the meantime. Take it easy :-)

Id like to report a problem...i filled out a withdraw request,and now when i click on the request id # it says : Requested withdrawal of  GBP to
thats it..nothing after to..its not reporting the name of the beneficiary account details etc like it used to on britcoin

looking into this and seeing if I can get it worded in a way that is more specific. Give me a couple days. In the mean time note that the site is only owned and operated by 3 people. Myself, Amir (genjix) and Patrick (phantomcircuit). I do not have access to the funds, and would not want to. We have measures set up if something were to happen to patrick (god forbid) but he is the one securing the funds and processing the transfers.

Term 12 was the only thing that stopped me signing up. Allow me to have another go at that paraphrasing:

'You agree to defend Intersango['s] parent, affiliates and employees from any cost we may incur as a result of (x) as well as but not limited to (y).'

It's really that "as well as but not limited to" that seems a bit dangerous. It looks like a punter at Intersango gets landed with the responsibility to defend anything anyone connected with Intersango does that could land Intersango in the shit. Including the parent company! That seems a bit of a weird catch-all.

Again, Thanks Donald_Norman for bearing with me on this. And max respect for the coders at Intersango. I've never had any problem with them.

When it comes to legalize. I trust the lawyer way more than myself. The same goes for Amir and Patrick. I will ask and find out if I can get clarification as to the extent and definition of this exact condition.

Perhaps we can reword it because now I see your concern. I will ask about number 12 and update it to be less ambiguous to laymen if possible.

Is there any other point you find problematic. If so, say so so that I can ask everything at once.

It isn't the coders I'm worrying about at all. It's the lawyers. To paraphrase:

'You agree to defend Intersango['s] affiliates from any cost we may incur [blah blah]'

I agree to "defend" some random affiliate? What's that all about? I'm not trying to be awkward here, or stir any ill will. And I definitely would recommend Intersango if user experience and interaction with Intersango coders were the be all and end all. But either I'm paranoid, or stupid, or else that term 12 ought to be reworded. IANAL, otherwise I would make a suggestion as to exactly what that wording should look like.

EDIT: forgot to say Thank You for your earlier reply Donald_Norman :-)

Actions speak louder then words. The biggest budget financial services have problems and we recently had a multi withdrawal. We paid out of our pockets (despite running a free service). The reason we could afford to do so is because we planned ahead and knew how exposed we were if such a problem were to occur.

The ToC is not a guarantee that we will not guarantee funds. As in that instance we did. While other services may not have these ToC. Both MtGox and Tradehill didn't pay clients of theirs on occasions while we have not a single instance of that. Bitomat and B7 have had troubles that there is no need to mention.

Our site is designed and run by programmers. Our lead programmer and operator of the site is an expert at security. The security of the site and how it is designed maximize not just the immediate safety but the chance that a problem if it does occur will be manageable. I would say we are magnitudes more secure than any other site but you can just look at the long track record instead of taking my word for it.

I used Britcoin ages ago and found it an agreeable experience. But on looking at the Terms and Conditions at the new Intersango, I notice at term 12:

You agree to indemnify, defend, and hold harmless Intersango Ltd, and its parent, affiliates, directors, officers and employees from and against any claim, liability, cost, damage or loss we may incur (including, without limitation, legal fees) as a result of the use of this website as well as but not limited to any violation by you of your obligations under these terms and conditions.

(https://britcoin.co.uk/terms.php)

That seems a bit scary! So much so, I just didn't go any further with the new registration. I hope some intersango punter isn't going to get screwed over by the lawyers there.