[Investment fund] Gamma Bitcoin Fund [Closed] - page 32.

OneEyed

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Quote from: LoweryCBS on August 13, 2012, 03:58:32 PM

Quote from: DeaDTerra on August 13, 2012, 03:40:56 PM

...
Really sorry about this, but it is the way things must go to keep the fund from getting even worse performance due to low amounts of liquid btc.

That's the correct action to protect your investors.

If someone wishes to withdraw funds, they must either (1) wait on liquid BTC to come available, or (2) bear the the losses incurred by liquidating assets to cover their withdrawal.

To do anything else would be unfair to your loyal investors.

You aren't running a bank; you haven't offered demand-deposit accounts. This is an investment fund.

As someone who hasn't requested a withdraw (even though I have had negative returns since I invested so far), I tend to agree with that.

However, the second post of this thread is misleading, as you write (and haven't modified it) that withdrawals are processed at the end of each week. Maybe you should make things clearer there too, even if I understand that people can get frustrated or angry when the rules are altered by the fund manager without prior warning.

unclescrooge

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+1

Take the time you need to hedge your investments

LoweryCBS

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firstbits 1LoCBS

Quote from: DeaDTerra on August 13, 2012, 03:40:56 PM

...
Really sorry about this, but it is the way things must go to keep the fund from getting even worse performance due to low amounts of liquid btc.

That's the correct action to protect your investors.

If someone wishes to withdraw funds, they must either (1) wait on liquid BTC to come available, or (2) bear the the losses incurred by liquidating assets to cover their withdrawal.

To do anything else would be unfair to your loyal investors.

You aren't running a bank; you haven't offered demand-deposit accounts. This is an investment fund.

DeaDTerra

donator

Activity: 1064

Merit: 1000

hello!
a little update

I meet BTCurious or Mqrius in Stockholm today we had a lot of fun chilling and hanging out. So I am sure he can now confirm my real ID, hopefully this will lead to a better trust with the investors. I am also open to meet any investor that wants to meet me, if you have your way around in Stockholm then sure Cheesy

On another note, I have gotten a lot of withdraw request, I currently have about 7 of them for a total of over 1000 Bitcoins. I am starting to get a bit annoyed of the nagging that's going on. I know it's frustrating having your funds locked down, but I am doing my best to liquidate as much as possible. I will keep the amount I need for normal business for the fund and enough to not disturb the investments of the fund. Any excess will be sent out each weekend, This will keep going until all the withdraws have been sent out and I am more comfortable with the liquidity of the fund.
Really sorry about this, but it is the way things must go to keep the fund from getting even worse performance due to low amounts of liquid btc.

//DeaDTerra

DeaDTerra

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Activity: 1064

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Quote from: labestiol on August 13, 2012, 05:38:03 AM

Quote from: DeaDTerra on August 13, 2012, 03:55:50 AM

Quote from: labestiol on August 12, 2012, 10:08:33 PM

Quote from: DeaDTerra on August 12, 2012, 01:03:33 PM

Okay let me explain a bit better

First of all quoting one sentence doesn't really explain the whole situation.
The reason why I am shutting down withdraws are not because I can't pay it out with the depositors money, but because I can't liquidate fast enough. Usually I keep a 500-1000 BTC in liquid btc in the trading bots and on the different exchanges. I use this buffer to buy shares and to pay withdraws. But when people withdraw faster then I can liquidate asset to refill this buffer then we get problems. This causes problems as it makes me incapable of manual trading and margin/flip trading. Which is one of our edges against only long holding funds. Also this prohibits us from bulk orders and such which is our edge against individual small investors.

Hence I decided to freeze the withdraws, long enough for me to liquidate enough on GLBSE to cover most of the withdraws and leave us with a big enough buffer. The root of the problem is the bad liquidity on GLBSE and our way to high exposure to it.
I hope that kind of answers your question?
//DeaDTerra

Be sure i wasn't trolling, only asking you about your strategy if things turns bad. Of course liquidity can be a problem on GLBSE, just not sure it's the only problem.
Wish you and your investors the best

You are hinting on another problem, please speak you mind.
//DeaDTerra

Basically being bullish on BTC makes me bearish on most glbse assets. Was just wondering how much of a loss can you accept.
Anyway, bitcoin.me is right, i don't have any reason to keep on bothering you, so i won't.

Indeed our heavy investment on GLBSE makes the fund bearish, this is something I have mentioned several times and am aware of. I am currently working on liquidating and reducing out GLBSE exposure as well as hedge against the price increase

If you want to ask questions please do. I have nothing against it.
//DeaDTerra

labestiol

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Quote from: DeaDTerra on August 13, 2012, 03:55:50 AM

Quote from: labestiol on August 12, 2012, 10:08:33 PM

Quote from: DeaDTerra on August 12, 2012, 01:03:33 PM

Okay let me explain a bit better

First of all quoting one sentence doesn't really explain the whole situation.
The reason why I am shutting down withdraws are not because I can't pay it out with the depositors money, but because I can't liquidate fast enough. Usually I keep a 500-1000 BTC in liquid btc in the trading bots and on the different exchanges. I use this buffer to buy shares and to pay withdraws. But when people withdraw faster then I can liquidate asset to refill this buffer then we get problems. This causes problems as it makes me incapable of manual trading and margin/flip trading. Which is one of our edges against only long holding funds. Also this prohibits us from bulk orders and such which is our edge against individual small investors.

Hence I decided to freeze the withdraws, long enough for me to liquidate enough on GLBSE to cover most of the withdraws and leave us with a big enough buffer. The root of the problem is the bad liquidity on GLBSE and our way to high exposure to it.
I hope that kind of answers your question?
//DeaDTerra

Be sure i wasn't trolling, only asking you about your strategy if things turns bad. Of course liquidity can be a problem on GLBSE, just not sure it's the only problem.
Wish you and your investors the best

You are hinting on another problem, please speak you mind.
//DeaDTerra

Basically being bullish on BTC makes me bearish on most glbse assets. Was just wondering how much of a loss can you accept.
Anyway, bitcoin.me is right, i don't have any reason to keep on bothering you, so i won't.

Bitcoin Oz

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Activity: 686

Merit: 500

Wat

Quote from: labestiol on August 12, 2012, 10:08:33 PM

Quote from: DeaDTerra on August 12, 2012, 01:03:33 PM

Okay let me explain a bit better

First of all quoting one sentence doesn't really explain the whole situation.
The reason why I am shutting down withdraws are not because I can't pay it out with the depositors money, but because I can't liquidate fast enough. Usually I keep a 500-1000 BTC in liquid btc in the trading bots and on the different exchanges. I use this buffer to buy shares and to pay withdraws. But when people withdraw faster then I can liquidate asset to refill this buffer then we get problems. This causes problems as it makes me incapable of manual trading and margin/flip trading. Which is one of our edges against only long holding funds. Also this prohibits us from bulk orders and such which is our edge against individual small investors.

Hence I decided to freeze the withdraws, long enough for me to liquidate enough on GLBSE to cover most of the withdraws and leave us with a big enough buffer. The root of the problem is the bad liquidity on GLBSE and our way to high exposure to it.
I hope that kind of answers your question?
//DeaDTerra

Be sure i wasn't trolling, only asking you about your strategy if things turns bad. Of course liquidity can be a problem on GLBSE, just not sure it's the only problem.
Wish you and your investors the best

I wonder why you are asking questions when you dont have a dog in the hunt.

DeaDTerra

donator

Activity: 1064

Merit: 1000

Quote from: labestiol on August 12, 2012, 10:08:33 PM

Quote from: DeaDTerra on August 12, 2012, 01:03:33 PM

Okay let me explain a bit better

First of all quoting one sentence doesn't really explain the whole situation.
The reason why I am shutting down withdraws are not because I can't pay it out with the depositors money, but because I can't liquidate fast enough. Usually I keep a 500-1000 BTC in liquid btc in the trading bots and on the different exchanges. I use this buffer to buy shares and to pay withdraws. But when people withdraw faster then I can liquidate asset to refill this buffer then we get problems. This causes problems as it makes me incapable of manual trading and margin/flip trading. Which is one of our edges against only long holding funds. Also this prohibits us from bulk orders and such which is our edge against individual small investors.

Hence I decided to freeze the withdraws, long enough for me to liquidate enough on GLBSE to cover most of the withdraws and leave us with a big enough buffer. The root of the problem is the bad liquidity on GLBSE and our way to high exposure to it.
I hope that kind of answers your question?
//DeaDTerra

Be sure i wasn't trolling, only asking you about your strategy if things turns bad. Of course liquidity can be a problem on GLBSE, just not sure it's the only problem.
Wish you and your investors the best

You are hinting on another problem, please speak you mind.
//DeaDTerra

labestiol

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 251

Quote from: DeaDTerra on August 12, 2012, 01:03:33 PM

Okay let me explain a bit better

First of all quoting one sentence doesn't really explain the whole situation.
The reason why I am shutting down withdraws are not because I can't pay it out with the depositors money, but because I can't liquidate fast enough. Usually I keep a 500-1000 BTC in liquid btc in the trading bots and on the different exchanges. I use this buffer to buy shares and to pay withdraws. But when people withdraw faster then I can liquidate asset to refill this buffer then we get problems. This causes problems as it makes me incapable of manual trading and margin/flip trading. Which is one of our edges against only long holding funds. Also this prohibits us from bulk orders and such which is our edge against individual small investors.

Hence I decided to freeze the withdraws, long enough for me to liquidate enough on GLBSE to cover most of the withdraws and leave us with a big enough buffer. The root of the problem is the bad liquidity on GLBSE and our way to high exposure to it.
I hope that kind of answers your question?
//DeaDTerra

Be sure i wasn't trolling, only asking you about your strategy if things turns bad. Of course liquidity can be a problem on GLBSE, just not sure it's the only problem.
Wish you and your investors the best

DeaDTerra

donator

Activity: 1064

Merit: 1000

Hello guys

This week the profit landed at -0.413 which I think is still pretty good taking into consideration that the price has increased by 12% since the start of the week.
We have done some nice deals this week, liquidation trades with Usagi, purchase of GIPPT shares and a bulk order from ASICMINER, which hopefully will result in some nice profit as time goes on.
Full report will be given out tomorrow.

I am seen mqrius or BTCurious as he's know by on the forums, tomorrow. As he's on holiday in Sweden and is taking a trip up to Stockholm

If anyone else that lives close to Stockholm wants to arrange a meeting with me please do, it's always fun to put faces on the names on the forums.
//DeaDTerra

DeaDTerra

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Activity: 1064

Merit: 1000

Quote from: LoweryCBS on August 12, 2012, 01:14:16 PM

Quote from: labestiol on August 12, 2012, 12:20:12 PM

I also would like to disclose that i'm not an investor, nor do I plan to...

Then, as an investor, I'd like to disclose that I didn't ask for your input, nor do I plan to. Get lost.

DeaDTerra, don't feed the trolls.

It's fine, I like people questioning my logical and thought as long as they don't judge. To discuss and talk about is fine to judge and accuse now that's when it turns into a ponzi witch hunt.
//DeaDTerra

LoweryCBS

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Activity: 364

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firstbits 1LoCBS

Quote from: labestiol on August 12, 2012, 12:20:12 PM

I also would like to disclose that i'm not an investor, nor do I plan to...

Then, as an investor, I'd like to disclose that I didn't ask for your input, nor do I plan to. Get lost.

DeaDTerra, don't feed the trolls.

DeaDTerra

donator

Activity: 1064

Merit: 1000

Quote from: labestiol on August 12, 2012, 12:20:12 PM

First i would say that i really don't think you're a ponzi. You are most likely an investment fund. So what i want to say is not at all a way to accuse you of running a ponzi.
I also would like to disclose that i'm not an investor, nor do I plan to, nor do I have any interest to spread fud.
But this sentence is a bit worrying to me :

Quote from: DeaDTerra on August 08, 2012, 02:56:44 AM

Quote from: Sukrim on August 08, 2012, 02:29:22 AM

Wouldn't it be better to allow for new investors again instead of shutting down withdrawals? Huh

New investors are currently open due to the many withdraws and yes that would be the most optimal way to do it, but unfortunately the amount of new investors are lower then the amount of old investors leaving.
//DeaDTerra

This mechanism (being able to pay for withdraws with money from fresh investors) IS what a ponzi is all about. Lots of ponzi schemes are investment schemes turned bad.
I understand that your fund is being affected by the recent BTCUSD move, it's normal. Most of glbse assets (for example mining bonds) are shorts BTC, long the assets of the issuer.
So my question would be what will you do if the market keep on going against you ? Will you keep on waiting ?

To me you should ALWAYS allow withdraws, but you should find a mechanism were people who withdraw take some part of the loss.
Hope everything will turn out ok for your fund and your investors.

Okay let me explain a bit better

First of all quoting one sentence doesn't really explain the whole situation.
The reason why I am shutting down withdraws are not because I can't pay it out with the depositors money, but because I can't liquidate fast enough. Usually I keep a 500-1000 BTC in liquid btc in the trading bots and on the different exchanges. I use this buffer to buy shares and to pay withdraws. But when people withdraw faster then I can liquidate asset to refill this buffer then we get problems. This causes problems as it makes me incapable of manual trading and margin/flip trading. Which is one of our edges against only long holding funds. Also this prohibits us from bulk orders and such which is our edge against individual small investors.

Hence I decided to freeze the withdraws, long enough for me to liquidate enough on GLBSE to cover most of the withdraws and leave us with a big enough buffer. The root of the problem is the bad liquidity on GLBSE and our way to high exposure to it.
I hope that kind of answers your question?
//DeaDTerra

labestiol

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 251

First i would say that i really don't think you're a ponzi. You are most likely an investment fund. So what i want to say is not at all a way to accuse you of running a ponzi.
I also would like to disclose that i'm not an investor, nor do I plan to, nor do I have any interest to spread fud.
But this sentence is a bit worrying to me :

Quote from: DeaDTerra on August 08, 2012, 02:56:44 AM

Quote from: Sukrim on August 08, 2012, 02:29:22 AM

Wouldn't it be better to allow for new investors again instead of shutting down withdrawals? Huh

New investors are currently open due to the many withdraws and yes that would be the most optimal way to do it, but unfortunately the amount of new investors are lower then the amount of old investors leaving.
//DeaDTerra

This mechanism (being able to pay for withdraws with money from fresh investors) IS what a ponzi is all about. Lots of ponzi schemes are investment schemes turned bad.
I understand that your fund is being affected by the recent BTCUSD move, it's normal. Most of glbse assets (for example mining bonds) are shorts BTC, long the assets of the issuer.
So my question would be what will you do if the market keep on going against you ? Will you keep on waiting ?

To me you should ALWAYS allow withdraws, but you should find a mechanism were people who withdraw take some part of the loss.
Hope everything will turn out ok for your fund and your investors.

Ignatius

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Activity: 409

Merit: 250

I am sorry to hear about the withdrawals and various factors making things more difficult for you DT.

I very recently withdrew my deposit after about 4 weeks time, but it was small compared to the totals referred to above. Communications with DT during that time were great, always prompt responses. I opted to rollover profits and not take any payouts, and successfully received my deposit plus profits once requested.

I hope things begin to go a little more smoothly for you DT, if I can come up with some spare coin I'll have no problem depositing again.

DeaDTerra

donator

Activity: 1064

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Sukrim on August 08, 2012, 07:41:53 AM

Yes, however I rather like focussed funds, not "we cover all markets/jack-of-all-trades" funds. It seems at least people with ~10k BTC in total think differently, so the idea certainly is also worth something...

Using GLBSE for far over 1 year now I a fairly confident that Nefario won't pull a Bitcoinica anytime soon.

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on August 08, 2012, 05:46:38 AM

Quote from: Sukrim on August 08, 2012, 04:01:29 AM

I thought about investing, however I am unhappy with the move away from GLBSE and into ventures like ziggystar (a badly paying PPT imho) - but good luck with your fund nevertheless!

Its not good to have all your eggs in the one basket in case something happens to glbse.

Quote from: LoweryCBS on August 08, 2012, 08:29:54 AM

Quote from: Sukrim on August 08, 2012, 07:41:53 AM

Yes, however I rather like focussed funds, not "we cover all markets/jack-of-all-trades" funds. It seems at least people with ~10k BTC in total think differently, so the idea certainly is also worth something...

Using GLBSE for far over 1 year now I a fairly confident that Nefario won't pull a Bitcoinica anytime soon.

One reason I like this fund is it's limited exposure to GLBSE.

I'm not worried about Nefario, I'm concerned about some regulatory agency getting involved.

I've got the bulk of my own at-work coins on GLBSE, and don't personally have the off-GLBSE connections that a large fund manager has access to.

I think once the BTCST matter settles (Ponzi or not, it can't go on much longer: the math just ain't there) there will be people with coins looking for investments. I'm sure that the current withdrawls from GAMMA are pirateat40-rate-seekers.

Gamma Bitcoin Funds strength is that it's diversified, too lower risk of high loses from defaults and such. Hence one of the things I wish to do is to reduce out GLBSE exposure, but this doesn't mean that we shouldn't invest in GLBSE, we should there are tons of good deals on there. But maybe in smaller volumes and only a select amount of share/bonds

I trust Nefario, he is one of the most public person in the bitcoin community. The chance of him running away is slime to non.

I am currently working on a deal that might help us liquidate some of our assets

//DeaDTerra

LoweryCBS

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firstbits 1LoCBS

Quote from: Sukrim on August 08, 2012, 07:41:53 AM

Yes, however I rather like focussed funds, not "we cover all markets/jack-of-all-trades" funds. It seems at least people with ~10k BTC in total think differently, so the idea certainly is also worth something...

Using GLBSE for far over 1 year now I a fairly confident that Nefario won't pull a Bitcoinica anytime soon.

One reason I like this fund is it's limited exposure to GLBSE.

I'm not worried about Nefario, I'm concerned about some regulatory agency getting involved.

I've got the bulk of my own at-work coins on GLBSE, and don't personally have the off-GLBSE connections that a large fund manager has access to.

I think once the BTCST matter settles (Ponzi or not, it can't go on much longer: the math just ain't there) there will be people with coins looking for investments. I'm sure that the current withdrawls from GAMMA are pirateat40-rate-seekers.

Sukrim

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Yes, however I rather like focussed funds, not "we cover all markets/jack-of-all-trades" funds. It seems at least people with ~10k BTC in total think differently, so the idea certainly is also worth something...

Using GLBSE for far over 1 year now I a fairly confident that Nefario won't pull a Bitcoinica anytime soon.

Bitcoin Oz

hero member

Activity: 686

Merit: 500

Wat

Quote from: Sukrim on August 08, 2012, 04:01:29 AM

I thought about investing, however I am unhappy with the move away from GLBSE and into ventures like ziggystar (a badly paying PPT imho) - but good luck with your fund nevertheless!

Its not good to have all your eggs in the one basket in case something happens to glbse.

Sukrim

legendary

Activity: 2618

Merit: 1007

I thought about investing, however I am unhappy with the move away from GLBSE and into ventures like ziggystar (a badly paying PPT imho) - but good luck with your fund nevertheless!

Topic: [Investment fund] Gamma Bitcoin Fund [Closed] - page 32. (Read 84436 times)