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Topic: ion discussion - page 5. (Read 9675 times)

legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1016
September 09, 2015, 02:29:01 PM
#23
IMO there is too much focus on 100% anonymity (not just here, but crypto in general) and I don't believe it is needed for a crypto to become mainstream for a number of reasons.

I used to be of the same mindset, but came to a few conclusions that led to the realization that providing the anonymity was as good, or slightly better, than what Bitcoin offers, then there isn't any real point to spend large amounts of time chasing 100% it down.  Of course, if a solution should show up right in front of your nose, then take advantage of it by all means, but I think you should consider following

1.  There has to be a trade off at some point of anonymity vs some other factor.  Be it the size of the transactions, the speed which they can be processed, or functionality limitations later on.  

2.  TPTB will fight against any crypto that is truly anonymous, preventing it to gain any significant mass market adoption with the usual rhetoric of drugs etc....

3.  Nor will any infrastructure you need to build on allow you to use it to get it out there.

4.  The general public doesn't give 1 single thought to anonymity on a daily basis, most people don't care that the governments read their email/sms/web activities etc.

Anonymitys main purpose in a mass market targeted crypto IMO is to guard against criminals figuring out what you own and who you are, second to that is privacy.

If mass market adoption is your goal, I would seriously consider the above because it WILL come and bite you in the ass if you don't implement it wisely.  

On the other hand, if you simply want to take over the worlds black market, then full steam anon is the way to go  Cheesy

As for the other claims, some seem suspect but I'm going to hold off on those until later.  Despite your attitude around here sometimes you certainly do have some skill, so while I'm skeptical of some of them I'm not going to waste time "guessing" with no details.
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1865
September 09, 2015, 01:30:32 PM
#22
...

Following.  "Ion" name is good.  If you find something better, well OK.  It's your coin!

Keep us posted!
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
September 09, 2015, 01:13:23 PM
#21
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
September 09, 2015, 12:23:16 PM
#20
Of course there are confirmations but the confirmations are instant and decentralized. The key is to attain global 0-confirmation consensus on local instant confirmations.

Hashing your own transactions gives you local instant confirmation. But once you submit these into a chain of work, the selection rule means you can still get orphans.

Be sure I have considered orphaned chains. I mention it in the rough draft of the white paper. Yes please let's not dig into the details of this yet. I need to be further along in the implementation before giving any more hints. Sorry to put out a teaser when not ready to publish, but mainly I just needed to get some feedback on the name and also start showing some coding progress to build some confidence (and perhaps synergies with other developers) in the community. I wish I was ready to publish the design today. I am moving as fast as I can.
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1002
Strange, yet attractive.
September 09, 2015, 11:19:28 AM
#19
Of course there are confirmations but the confirmations are instant and decentralized. The key is to attain global 0-confirmation consensus on local instant confirmations.

Hashing your own transactions gives you local instant confirmation. But once you submit these into a chain of work, the selection rule means you can still get orphans.

You are assuming the design is essentially the same as Bitcoin etc. It should be obvious from the numbered items in the OP (and later comments from ion.cash) that it is not. I suggest waiting for further details rather than pointless debates on the basis of no detailed information about how it claims to achieve those.


More of these to be expected sooner than later. It's in the physis of human beings to question everything a-priori (ie: without first studying it). I'd propose a short synopsis of the project's basic aspects so that there are more participants involved and -hopefully- gain more attention from possible programmers. Of course there's a side-possibility:



Currently unreleased white papers will not be published until this coin is nearer to release to insure these designs are released first in our coin. Thus for the time being I may not be providing more details on how the above features are accomplished.



Just my 20c
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
September 09, 2015, 11:03:42 AM
#18
Of course there are confirmations but the confirmations are instant and decentralized. The key is to attain global 0-confirmation consensus on local instant confirmations.

Hashing your own transactions gives you local instant confirmation. But once you submit these into a chain of work, the selection rule means you can still get orphans.

You are assuming the design is essentially the same as Bitcoin etc. It should be obvious from the numbered items in the OP (and later comments from ion.cash) that it is not. I suggest waiting for further details rather than pointless debates on the basis of no detailed information about how it claims to achieve those.
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
September 09, 2015, 10:13:56 AM
#17
Thanks for the upbeat posts. Very inspiring. Today (and past days) I had my head deep in hash function research papers and it looks like the Cuckoo hash has the best properties for the global consensus aggregation. Not tromp's proof-of-work cuckoo hash, as I had already designed a CPU favorable hash in 2014, which generalized benchmarks seem to indicate it will be on par or exceed the CPU-only attributes of Cryptonite (no specific benchmarks yet and I have a significant innovation over the generalized benchmarks).

Wishing you all the best with ... your health!

The latest development is that apparently I was drinking some remnants of Kombucha tea when I drank the first batch that was misprepared with salt instead of sugar, because that batch started to grow another tiny SCOBY in the refrigerator! So the miraculous abatement of M.S. symptoms the past days appears to be due to something in that concoction that I drank which apparently corrected some of my gut dysbiosis. It doesn't yet feel certainly stable (little signs here and there) so I am eager to receive tomorrow by courier a replacement full-size SCOBY and pre-prepared batch of Kombucha tea. Soon I will know if this lack of headaches the past few days is going to be sustained. If my M.S. goes into remission, that will be an especially important achievement for assuring I can do this coding fast.

When is release date?

We are months away, but I will try to release some of the code progress open source, at least the parts that don't reveal the secrets that need to be held until testnet. And I will try to be more specific about target dates as the coding progresses and deadlines become more realistic to estimate.

The question is how do you ensure instantaneous transactions with NO confirmation. <----seems like a paradox to me.

Of course there are confirmations but the confirmations are instant and decentralized. The key is to attain global 0-confirmation consensus on local instant confirmations. And that is already revealing too much because some of you are clever enough to reinvent what I did given enough hints, but there are a lot of details to work through to attain holistic soundness. So if anyone asks for further clarification on this, I will have to decline to comment until we get closer to testnet.

Again another hint was the white paper written by Vitalik about an abstract partitioning the network, which is conceptually similar. I as TPTB_need_war posted about that some weeks ago. You can find that post and quote it in this thread so everyone can have the link to that paper. I don't have time to go dig my archives for it. It appears he published that white paper about the same time (maybe a month after) I had discovered this scheme.

Vanilla coin already did this......no prizes for second. Move along nothing to see,

Afaik, VNL claims to do nothing about network fragmentation, nor anything significant about the scaling issue that is causing the Gavincoin war. Also I think it will be clear when the details are published that VNL hasn't come close to achieving this very significant overhaul of Satoshi's design, but let's reserve judgement on that until both VNL and ION have released more detailed white papers (than the one VNL already released). So how about we both hold our tongue and reserve this aspect of the discussion until after we publish our details.

Don't worry, we will apply the same level of scrutiny and analysis to this proposal as well as the many others.

Please do. We don't want to waste our time on anything which can't stand up to peer review. As I said, we'll try to do it in a communication format where nothing is censored but in such a paradigm that we can get the conclusions, caveats, and rational objections from discussions summarized for new readers. Hopefully a custom designed/configured Wiki.

When I write "we" there is really only me as a developer (and two angel investors that have put up some meager funds and several more potentially interested if we need more funding) at the moment but there are at least two others devs that might join in soon. And potentially more perhaps if we offer some bounties, though I've heard the experience with bounty work hasn't been spectacular.

Will you have any Ethereum like features? I am extremely interested in a decentralised exchange for assets where people could trade anything in any way possible (spot, margin, futures, cfd, etc) without the DAMN centralised gvt manipulation (see how at summer Greek, Chinese and US markets were closed, banned short selling, etc).

Good luck!

EDIT: The reason I am interested for this feature especially in your platform is for the anonymity that would be a priori build into the coin

I am very interested in decentralized features. As much as possible I liked features such as these (including anonymity) to be bolt on and orthogonal, so that we can develop on them after getting the basic block chain network solidified. This overhaul of Satoshi's design appears to be able to make for example the transaction data format orthogonal to the block chain, but I need to work through some more of the pedantic details before I can be absolutely sure of that.

Although it is not in the set of features I want to accomplish before a testnet on the block chain network, I believe my design solves the scaling problem of Ethereum-style programmable contracts that afaics Ethereum never did solve. But again devil is in the details, and I am not studying that right now. I have to stay focused on one area of the problem set of crypto at a time. The feature space is large and there are a lot of things that need to be done. Everything can move faster if we can launch a novel consensus network, raise more money with that live, and then invest in developers. Developers will be more keen to hop on the train if they see something significant launched.

The name sounds neutral and it doesn't refer to money so I assume it is not a coin? Is it Etherium type of platform or what is it?
Please explain what is Ion like I am 5 years old.  Grin

I hear you that Ion or ion doesn't connotate money. Let me address that issue where I discuss naming below...

The first goal is to solve the fundamental problems in Satoshi's design that revolve around scaling, maintaining permission-less commerce via decentralization, attaining instant transactions without needing to centralized the network (which is where Bitcoin is headed otherwise), attain network fragmentation tolerance that Bitcoin doesn't have, etc.. Did you ever realize that if the internet fragmented, everyone could spend their Bitcoins multiple times (once on each network fragment). These are major fundamental problems in Satoshi's otherwise excellent design.

After that, the innovations won't stop. As I wrote, I already have better than Zerocash anonymity designed, but need to turn that over to other developers to implement, because I don't want to be culpable for the features that might bring on the ire of authorities, since I have decided to be the public developer on the coin.

As my reply to klee hints, many other innovations appear they may spawn from the fundamental restructuring of Satoshi's design.

Again I will try to get some code published soon, so it is clear I am a real coder.

After hearing all kinds of names in crypto, Ion did not wow like Monero did. But i hope it grows on me

I somewhat like the name, though I'd prefer to have more name choices.

Truth is the more I think about the name, the more I like it Wink

It is normal most people would prefer the name that is already more well known. Takes some time for a name to become branded in the minds.

I also wish there were more choices and I am open to suggestions, but please let's not litter the thread will silly ones. If there are any well thought out suggestions, please share. If anyone provides a winning name suggestion, I assume some coins will come your way (but I don't have a specific offer).

Monero name's positives:

  • sounding like an existing monetary unit (the Euro)
  • very unlike any other name for a crypto-coin
  • having nearly the literal word "money" in the name
  • even it is longer than 3 letters, very difficult to misspell it, money+ero, how else could you misspell it.

Monero name's negatives:

  • it doesn't connote electronic currency nor high-tech money (my opinion it connotes old world aristocratic money or money for a Monopoly board).
  • the name of the currency unit isn't ideal, and I can't remember which currency unit name the community wants me to use, "moneros", "moneroj"
  • the ISO currency abbreviation XMR is not the same as the name

My PERSONAL OPINION is the negative attributes are it is pronounced like "moanero", it is associated with a failing currency union (Euro), and it doesn't sound very cool to say "pay me 15 moneros". For me it sounds like I am ordering egg omelet tacos in Mexico ("rancheros").

Ion name's positives:

  • connotes something high-tech that can be zapped or lives in the electronic cloud
  • memorable catchy currency unit name, "zap me 15 ions"
  • potentially creates a new terminology for real-time electronic commerce, i.e. unproven potentially huge new markets of instant 0-conf microtransactions ("zap me 2 ions")
  • the ISO currency abbreviation ION can be the same as the name (yeah I read about preference for X as first letter in standard, but this doesn't have to be strictly followed, e.g. BTC and BBR)
  • three letters concise a la "Nxt" (people prefer to write short names and easier fit into web page cart screen space layouts, less opportunities to misspell it)
  • is generic enough to also connote the general decentralized cloud block chain technology as capabilities extend beyond currency

Ion name's negatives:

  • doesn't connote currency inherently, instead it must redefine what electronic currency is by making crypto-currency scale to millions of instant microtransactions per second globally, something no other crypto-currency can do yet.
  • similar to another crypto-coin, e.g. Aeon (but likely only one or a few crypto-coins will win big in the end so it probably doesn't matter and Aeon is easily misspelled)
  • first letter when capitalized is indistinguishable is some fonts between a lowercase L or an uppercase i

Note we are considering making the money supply billions or trillions of coins, so that instead of "mIon" you would use "ion". I think it is preferable for people to use large numbers for big box purchases, e.g. 127,000 ions for that television instead of using fractional numbers for microtransactions. We are moving to a Knowledge Age economy wherein people are paid for every Like they click and every action they do.

For example instead of filling up those tedious captchas, wouldn't you prefer to pay 1/100 of a penny and click straight through without the hassles. Microtransactions can be used for anti-spamming control and also for business models that weren't possible before (and you really must click that link and read the lack of permission-less commerce saga that I described as my former user name iamback).

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.12368247

Quote
virtual work sites - future of work now

humanatic.com
scribie.com
mturk.com
microworkers.com
bitcoinget.com
slicethepie.com
usertesting.com
clickworker.com
clixsense.com
speechpad.com
upwork.com
freelancer.com

https://monerobase.com/Crypto_Kingdom

Look for affiliate offers such as the following on all such sites:

https://www.gambit.com/affiliate (this one has chess too)

https://www.google.com/search?q=Bitcoin+gambling+sites
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1002
Strange, yet attractive.
September 09, 2015, 10:00:43 AM
#16
Being back home I followed your recent activity of the last 5 days. I say that no matter what name this coin has, it has some pretty heavy momentum to make it already a winner. I voted "yes" for Ion (it's a Physics term anyways, so how couldn't I dig it? Wink).

My best wishes and good luck!
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 1141
September 09, 2015, 09:41:27 AM
#15
Following and I wish you all the best of luck!
legendary
Activity: 952
Merit: 1000
Stagnation is Death
September 09, 2015, 09:39:01 AM
#14
After hearing all kinds of names in crypto, Ion did not wow like Monero did. But i hope it grows on me
hero member
Activity: 665
Merit: 500
September 09, 2015, 07:50:06 AM
#13
Following. Like the name. Wishing you all the best with this project and your health!
legendary
Activity: 1442
Merit: 1001
September 09, 2015, 07:27:07 AM
#12
Following - reserved. I'd keep the name, assuming there aren't any existing name collisions.
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
September 09, 2015, 04:33:13 AM
#11
Good luck with ion!
I am following your work and previous posts for some time and I really wish you to succeed to deliver what you intended with this coin. It will be revolutionary if you do.
legendary
Activity: 1848
Merit: 1000
September 09, 2015, 03:38:44 AM
#10
I like Ion, wish you luck with developing and releasing this coin.
legendary
Activity: 1008
Merit: 1007
September 09, 2015, 03:33:41 AM
#9
Vanilla coin already did this......no prizes for second. Move along nothing to see,



Now I see why you attacked Vanialla coin, I hope you are ready for the same treatment you dealt out.

Don't worry, we will apply the same level of scrutiny and analysis to this proposal as well as the many others.

Btw - dash was the first to claim this feature, not VNL. Instant-x is only slightly less rubbish than zero time.
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1000
Reality is stranger than fiction
September 09, 2015, 03:19:42 AM
#8
I somewhat like the name, though I'd prefer to have more name choices.

Truth is the more I think about the name, the more I like it Wink

Fixing Satoshi's design flaws is huge, the entire cryptocurrency scene needs this,

Wish you all the luck!
Following Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 400
Merit: 263
September 09, 2015, 03:05:19 AM
#7
following. Name is ok, catchy.

best of luck with your endeavor Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1016
September 09, 2015, 03:02:35 AM
#6
Reserving this spot for initial thoughts/comments once more information is available.
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1000
September 09, 2015, 02:43:55 AM
#5
The name is okay.
At least it is better than Vanillacoin's name.
The name sounds neutral and it doesn't refer to money so I assume it is not a coin? Is it Etherium type of platform or what is it?
Please explain what is Ion like I am 5 years old.  Grin
legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1000
September 09, 2015, 02:16:26 AM
#4
Name is cool & trendy.

Will you have any Ethereum like features? I am extremely interested in a decentralised exchange for assets where people could trade anything in any way possible (spot, margin, futures, cfd, etc) without the DAMN centralised gvt manipulation (see how at summer Greek, Chinese and US markets were closed, banned short selling, etc).

Good luck!

EDIT: The reason I am interested for this feature especially in your platform is for the anonymity that would be a priori build into the coin
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