IOTA - Permissioned ledger Russian extortion scheme - page 14.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: cryptohunter on March 29, 2016, 01:56:22 PM

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on March 29, 2016, 01:47:05 PM

Quote from: r0ach on March 29, 2016, 01:43:15 PM

I did not receive payment for this one yet.

Playing stupid won't add credibility to your posts. You accept the bet or I add this thread into favorites and remind it every time I meet you in threads to show that your words are worth nothing. You have 24 hours to save your face.

Well, after you said of tptb's thread that BTT does not matter and you will find others to sell iota to who are unaware of the sock puppet ICO ...then I guess whatever you show people on here will not hold much influence.

It makes you wonder if BTT "does not matter" why they are here at all. Or does BTT not matter only when people say things on BTT they don't like?

cryptohunter

legendary

Activity: 2100

Merit: 1167

MY RED TRUST LEFT BY SCUMBAGS - READ MY SIG

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on March 29, 2016, 01:47:05 PM

Quote from: r0ach on March 29, 2016, 01:43:15 PM

I did not receive payment for this one yet.

Playing stupid won't add credibility to your posts. You accept the bet or I add this thread into favorites and remind it every time I meet you in threads to show that your words are worth nothing. You have 24 hours to save your face.

Well, after you said of tptb's thread that BTT does not matter and you will find others to sell iota to who are unaware of the sock puppet ICO ...then I guess whatever you show people on here will not hold much influence.

Come-from-Beyond

legendary

Activity: 2142

Merit: 1010

Newbie

Quote from: r0ach on March 29, 2016, 01:43:15 PM

I did not receive payment for this one yet.

Playing stupid won't add credibility to your posts. You accept the bet or I add this thread into favorites and remind it every time I meet you in threads to show that your words are worth nothing. You have 24 hours to save your face.

cryptohunter

legendary

Activity: 2100

Merit: 1167

MY RED TRUST LEFT BY SCUMBAGS - READ MY SIG

Quote from: Snail2 on March 29, 2016, 08:37:10 AM

Quote from: Days on March 29, 2016, 07:38:15 AM

As usual Smooth the Monero/Aeon developer spamming other coins threads to prove that other coins are shit except the spam coins he supports; sock puppets accounts from Monero/Aeon party are different level in this forum.

My feeling is don't believe any POLL in this forum nor believe anything spammed by Monero people.

Pretty much like that. Also depicting PoW as a non permissioned ledger is theoretically right, but in reality no longer true. In these days obtaining PoS coins and staking is much more affordable than mining.

How can obtaining coins at 3000% over ICO essentially be cheaper than mining fairly from the start? That does not have to be the case.

Yes of course it is cheaper if you are selling them to yourself for next to nothing then pumping them 3000% for others to buy. Of course that is far more affordable since you are getting paid a fortune just for having them.

It is impossible to get more than your fair share of the tokens/coins if you follow a fair release protocol on a POW launch. Please explain to me how it is at all possible.

ICO is a closed curtain behind which anything can be taking place.

POW is an open book you get to see exactly what is happening as it unfolds.

If someone can show me how you can gain unfair advantage on POW with announced release, low initial block rewards, fast scaling dif, slow long mining period... then go ahead and explain.

r0ach

legendary

Activity: 1260

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on March 29, 2016, 01:34:59 PM

Quote from: r0ach on March 29, 2016, 01:31:06 PM

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on March 29, 2016, 11:52:29 AM

Quote from: r0ach on March 29, 2016, 11:30:04 AM

Having said that, the distributed security part is also full of a lot of holes.

This is worth another 50 BTC bet which we'll do after sorting out the first one, right?

I'll be happy to accept that bet. Anything with a probabilistic security model is by definition "full of holes". It's designed to fail in other words. The only thing that gives it any usability is it's fault or state recovery. You're inherently trying to create a perpetual motion machine based on human desirability to constantly reboot the system afterwards.

The 50 BTC payment by one of you or your associates can be sent here:

13Vec94iVPETRahJjf9zWwoyuJV6uh2o1e

"...which we'll do after sorting out the first one". One bet at a time. So, what about the first one? Do you accept it?

I did not receive payment for this one yet.

Come-from-Beyond

legendary

Activity: 2142

Merit: 1010

Newbie

Quote from: r0ach on March 29, 2016, 01:31:06 PM

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on March 29, 2016, 11:52:29 AM

Quote from: r0ach on March 29, 2016, 11:30:04 AM

Having said that, the distributed security part is also full of a lot of holes.

This is worth another 50 BTC bet which we'll do after sorting out the first one, right?

I'll be happy to accept that bet. Anything with a probabilistic security model is by definition "full of holes". It's designed to fail in other words. The only thing that gives it any usability is it's fault or state recovery. You're inherently trying to create a perpetual motion machine based on human desirability to constantly reboot the system afterwards.

The 50 BTC payment by one of you or your associates can be sent here:

13Vec94iVPETRahJjf9zWwoyuJV6uh2o1e

"...which we'll do after sorting out the first one". One bet at a time. So, what about the first one? Do you accept it?

LitcoinCollector

legendary

Activity: 1092

Merit: 1000

r0ach

legendary

Activity: 1260

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on March 29, 2016, 11:52:29 AM

Quote from: r0ach on March 29, 2016, 11:30:04 AM

Having said that, the distributed security part is also full of a lot of holes.

This is worth another 50 BTC bet which we'll do after sorting out the first one, right?

I'll be happy to accept that bet. Anything with a probabilistic security model is by definition "full of holes". It's designed to fail in other words. The only thing that gives it any usability is it's fault or state recovery. You're inherently trying to create a perpetual motion machine based on human incentivized desirability to constantly reboot the system afterwards.

The 50 BTC payment by one of you or your associates can be sent here:

13Vec94iVPETRahJjf9zWwoyuJV6uh2o1e

Come-from-Beyond

legendary

Activity: 2142

Merit: 1010

Newbie

Quote from: winterzauber on March 29, 2016, 01:06:09 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

The problem with this bullshit post of r0ach is, its a pure FUD.

And I agree with rezilient

Well, if I can earn 100 BTC on his FUD - why not? If he has balls to accept the bets, of course.

winterzauber

member

Activity: 95

Merit: 10

Quote from: ?? on ??

The problem with this bullshit post of r0ach is, its a pure FUD.

And I agree with rezilient

Come-from-Beyond

legendary

Activity: 2142

Merit: 1010

Newbie

Quote from: r0ach on March 29, 2016, 11:30:04 AM

Having said that, the distributed security part is also full of a lot of holes.

This is worth another 50 BTC bet which we'll do after sorting out the first one, right?

r0ach

legendary

Activity: 1260

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Snail2 on March 29, 2016, 08:37:10 AM

Also depicting PoW as a non permissioned ledger is theoretically right

Which is what brings us to the point of this thread. It's a wolf in sheep's clothing. A coin pretending to be a permissionless decentralized currency but really isn't. This system fooled many very smart people at first glance, we're talking many career mathematicians and PhDs, so don't feel bad whoever didn't figure it out till now. For anyone who doesn't get it, "distributed" is not the same thing as "decentralized" and "permissionless". Having said that, the distributed security part is also full of a lot of holes.

If it was released today, it would just be another greater fool pump like NXT, then fade into obscurity never to be heard from again due to severe technical issues similar to Burstcoin or Cryptonite. Attempting to improve on Bitcoin by a complete rewrite of the entire system is not a fly by night endeavor. This thread will be extremely unpopular with all coins not utilizing standard PoW as Bitcoin does, because it also shows the terminal flaws of those other systems.

Snail2

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Days on March 29, 2016, 07:38:15 AM

As usual Smooth the Monero/Aeon developer spamming other coins threads to prove that other coins are shit except the spam coins he supports; sock puppets accounts from Monero/Aeon party are different level in this forum.

My feeling is don't believe any POLL in this forum nor believe anything spammed by Monero people.

Pretty much like that. Also depicting PoW as a non permissioned ledger is theoretically right, but in reality no longer true. In these days obtaining PoS coins and staking is much more affordable than mining.

Days

member

Activity: 74

Merit: 10

As usual Smooth the Monero/Aeon developer spamming other coins threads to prove that other coins are shit except the spam coins he supports; sock puppets accounts from Monero/Aeon party are different level in this forum.

My feeling is don't believe any POLL in this forum nor believe anything spammed by Monero people.

Come-from-Beyond

legendary

Activity: 2142

Merit: 1010

Newbie

Quote from: smooth on March 29, 2016, 06:59:44 AM

Conclusion: The users expressing interest in IOTA are predominantly at best a narrow group with an unusually common background and forum activity history, and at worst a cheaply assembled group of sock puppets.

Looks like you haven't read survivorship bias article. Well, not many people care about posts in this thread, so we can stop here. This will save my time on explanation why survivorship bias is applicable in this case.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on March 29, 2016, 05:52:48 AM

Quote from: smooth on March 29, 2016, 05:30:28 AM

What is your estimate of how many users I looked at to find those 10?

In the list of users sorted by the date of registration? The same order of magnitude. Read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias and you'll get why your sampling was incorrect.

The sampling was not incorrect for what it was intended to accomplish. I looked at users active in promoting or expressing interest in IOTA to see if their backgrounds have surprising commonality.

Answer: I looked at 11 such accounts. The second or third I looked at was not an obvious hit, so I excluded it, but arguably it too could be included. They are all extremely similar relative to the population of currently-active forum users, and not just in terms of registration date, though certainly that.

Conclusion: The users expressing interest in IOTA are predominantly at best a narrow group with an unusually common background and forum activity history, and at worst a cheaply assembled group of sock puppets.

Come-from-Beyond

legendary

Activity: 2142

Merit: 1010

Newbie

Quote from: smooth on March 29, 2016, 05:30:28 AM

What is your estimate of how many users I looked at to find those 10?

In the list of users sorted by the date of registration? The same order of magnitude. Read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias and you'll get why your sampling was incorrect.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on March 29, 2016, 03:41:07 AM

I looked at those dates, they cover 2 months period which is 1/6 of a year. Both, Nxt and Iota, are innovative projects, so it's not surprising that they attract people. Common sense says that finding 10 users that registered within 2 months and got attracted by Nxt and Iota is not so improbable as you want to say.

What is your estimate of how many users I looked at to find those 10?

cryptohunter

legendary

Activity: 2100

Merit: 1167

MY RED TRUST LEFT BY SCUMBAGS - READ MY SIG

Quote from: PondSea on March 29, 2016, 05:12:25 AM

smooth if you have facts, present them.

I was in Qora, then NXT then iota but then i have been in BTC BTCD SC etc... Does this make me a sock puppet too?

Facts? this is a closed ICO with no transparency and no regulation. You don't get to look behind the curtain.

Ok, some people are going to be real investors. Looks to be a very high proportion of very new accounts and innactive accounts though.
That's the problem with unregulated ico with no transparency- Nobody can say.

Hence why the onus is on the ico to prove they are doing their best to distribute widely and not just share amongst a tiny percentage thus making it very easy to limit supply whilst pumping later on.

Coupled with the fact it's from the same people as nxt then you have to go that extra mile when running an ico not to be seen as doing the same thing as before.

This is why only POW with fair release is beyond question.

If you are going to have an ICO should be widely advertised as possible before and during the ICO and have a proportion of POW.

If it does not have those elements then it's wide open for manipulation and pumping.

PondSea

legendary

Activity: 1428

Merit: 1000

smooth if you have facts, present them.

I was in Qora, then NXT then iota but then i have been in BTC BTCD SC etc... Does this make me a sock puppet too?

Topic: IOTA - Permissioned ledger Russian extortion scheme - page 14. (Read 20175 times)