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Topic: IOTA - Permissioned ledger Russian extortion scheme - page 3. (Read 20175 times)

legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
A new Bitcoin clone with no adoption and usage yet. No checkpointing. Any Bitcoin ASIC farm could take over the hashrate totally anytime they'd wish. It would absolutely require checkpoints until enough its own ecosystem with miners and security has been established.


Wrong, it happens every day.  They're called altcoins.  Nobody wastes their time trying to brute force attack coins of no value.  There's millions of altcoins nobody bothers to attack.  The value of a currency is determined by it's network effect.  If the network effect is low, the coin has no value so nobody attacks it.  If the network effect is high, the coin value is high and thus the PoW network is sufficient to prevent attacks.

The IPO scamcoins on the other hand have a whole new approach.  They have 0 network effect, and thus no value, but that doesn't stop the Eastern Euro scammers (Vitalik, Come from Beyond) from trying to sell them to people for outrageous prices!  Who cares if they have no network effect, the coins aren't even technically viable in the first place!  BUY BUY BUY.
hero member
Activity: 966
Merit: 1003
Since you require checkpoints to even launch the coin at all, wouldn't we win any type of bet by default?

Ask yourself, if 100% Bitcoin clone was launched today, would it require checkpoints? Would this mean that Bitcoin can't achieve consensus?

PS: No need to post answers. The others know them already.

Of course it doesn't *require* checkpoints unless you count the genesis block itself as a checkpoint.  Your example would be the same thing as Bitcoin hard forking to a new PoW algo.  Everyone knows it's possible to do such a thing, and it doesn't require the network being micro managed by some random guy like Roger Ver.

A new Bitcoin clone with no adoption and usage yet. No checkpointing. Any Bitcoin ASIC farm could take over the hashrate totally anytime they'd wish. It would absolutely require checkpoints until enough its own ecosystem with miners and security has been established.

The security in IOTA model comes with the adoption, from people and machines making transactions.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
Since you require checkpoints to even launch the coin at all, wouldn't we win any type of bet by default?

Ask yourself, if 100% Bitcoin clone was launched today, would it require checkpoints? Would this mean that Bitcoin can't achieve consensus?

PS: No need to post answers. The others know them already.

Of course it doesn't *require* checkpoints unless you count the genesis block itself as a checkpoint.  Your example would be the same thing as Bitcoin hard forking to a new PoW algo.  Everyone knows it's possible to do such a thing, and it doesn't require the network being micro managed by some random guy like Roger Ver.
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
Since you require checkpoints to even launch the coin at all, wouldn't we win any type of bet by default?

Ask yourself, if 100% Bitcoin clone was launched today, would it require checkpoints? Would this mean that Bitcoin can't achieve consensus?

PS: No need to post answers. The others know them already.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
Add another refutation concerning the validity of IOTA to the thread:

r0ach: I wouldn't worry about permissioning, Iota doesn't have any kind of consensus or UTXO set...it's entirely unworkable.

http://bob.mcelrath.org/

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.14817465:

You can repeat this lie as much as you like, but my reputation is solid

So you want to continue discussing the details of our 100 BTC bet? What was your claim, again? If my English is not good enough then let's take your words as the basis.

Bob could put his money into your claim if they both align. Tell him that, please.

Since you require checkpoints to even launch the coin at all, wouldn't we win any type of bet by default?
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
Add another refutation concerning the validity of IOTA to the thread:

r0ach: I wouldn't worry about permissioning, Iota doesn't have any kind of consensus or UTXO set...it's entirely unworkable.

http://bob.mcelrath.org/

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.14817465:

You can repeat this lie as much as you like, but my reputation is solid

So you want to continue discussing the details of our 100 BTC bet? What was your claim, again? If my English is not good enough then let's take your words as the basis.

Bob could put his money into your claim if they both align. Tell him that, please.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
Add another refutation concerning the validity of IOTA to the thread:

r0ach: I wouldn't worry about permissioning, Iota doesn't have any kind of consensus or UTXO set...it's entirely unworkable.

http://bob.mcelrath.org/
legendary
Activity: 1181
Merit: 1002
Which one of you dirty eastern Euros knows who has been putting up these enormous walls on the sell side of BTCE recently?  Seeing 500+ BTC walls on sell side of that exchange is kind of unheard of.  First time I saw them, all I could think of was "there's Vitalik/Come from Beyond dumping their IPOs..."  The walls don't care if you buy into them, but they've also been strategically placed to try and prevent a BTC rise as well.  I'm not sure if the Russian altcoiners want to stop a BTC rise for some reason, or if there's actual central bankers playing the market.


legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
Which one of you dirty eastern Euros knows who has been putting up these enormous walls on the sell side of BTCE recently?  Seeing 500+ BTC walls on sell side of that exchange is kind of unheard of.  First time I saw them, all I could think of was "there's Vitalik/Come from Beyond dumping their IPOs..."  The walls don't care if you buy into them, but they've also been strategically placed to try and prevent a BTC rise as well.  I'm not sure if the Russian altcoiners want to stop a BTC rise for some reason, or if there's actual central bankers playing the market.
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
My new favorite word will be - anonymous dev issuing illegal security from 3rd world country and using some random guy he found in Norway as the fall guy.

legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
anonymous dev

hahaha good one. No need to search for facts when you can make them up yourself.

I don't keep up with the "Come from Beyond blog".  He was anonymous the last time I looked in the NXT IPO scam days.

NXT was kind of the prime mover of the cambrian explosion of IPO scams. - this will likely be the etching on Come from Beyond's tombstone someday.
legendary
Activity: 1225
Merit: 1000
anonymous dev

hahaha good one. No need to search for facts when you can make them up yourself.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
Could you stop "raping" the term "Nash equilibrium"?

Haha, that term became his favorite one, like "holistically" for TPTB.

My new favorite word will be - anonymous dev issuing illegal security from 3rd world country and using some random guy he found in Norway as the fall guy.
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
Could you stop "raping" the term "Nash equilibrium"?

Haha, that term became his favorite one, like "holistically" for TPTB.
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
You will eat your words...

So you decided not to follow my advice and prefer to die in ignorance? Sad, but what could I do. Happy trading!
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
[...]  The only real metric one can apply is if it fulfills any sort of Nash equilirbium in both economics and technical merit, since they are both intertwined, [...]

Could you stop "raping" the term "Nash equilibrium"?
Thanks.

Well, stop making coins and removing the elements that give them any value whatsoever.

That's easy, I never even started. Now, be true to your word.

My word is that I will not buy this coin.  

I did find it amusing that Come from Beyond is attempting to position the launch right after Bitcoin halving with his "not until 1 million transactions" (which is an arbitrary thing he's just going to spam down with a script when he thinks it's most profitable) in order to try and attract the maximum number of greater fools post Bitcoin halving bubble.  You have to give credit where credit is due.  Those Eastern Euros are used to not having things, so when they see a glimmer of hope in clawing their way out of the gutter, they really know how to attempt to make the stars align in their favor.  

I don't even dislike the guy.  He speaks in riddles like a freaking fortune cookie.  What's not to love?  It's just bad for people who operate in crypto to have a constant stream of hyped up greater fool coins with no fundamentals everywhere destroying the market.  If we don't self-police, everyone who holds any type of coins will eventually go broke from all the bad actors except the most prolific of scammers who cash out $1 million of Ethereum and ride off into the sunset not caring what happens to Bitcoin ever again.
legendary
Activity: 1181
Merit: 1002
[...]  The only real metric one can apply is if it fulfills any sort of Nash equilirbium in both economics and technical merit, since they are both intertwined, [...]

Could you stop "raping" the term "Nash equilibrium"?
Thanks.

Well, stop making coins and removing the elements that give them any value whatsoever.

That's easy, I never even started. Now, be true to your word.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
[...]  The only real metric one can apply is if it fulfills any sort of Nash equilirbium in both economics and technical merit, since they are both intertwined, [...]

Could you stop "raping" the term "Nash equilibrium"?
Thanks.

Well, stop making coins and removing the elements that give them any value whatsoever.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
The purpose of mining is to create a permanent decentralized exchange, which thus results in a permissionless system.
The only way to achieve this is to make mining unprofitable.

You should probably clarify your statement with some kind of exception because you've said you don't think IOTA is a functional system, but that quote in the context of this thread gives the appearance that you endorse it when you obviously don't.

Well I didn't mean to remove the tail reward, i.e. retain ongoing issuance of coins in exchange for mining even though mining is unprofitable. Btw, Bitcoin has no tail reward but that isn't a problem for another 10 years or so.
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