Topic: IOTA - Permissioned ledger Russian extortion scheme - page 7. (Read 20168 times)
Please, this thread is not about some coin nobody has ever heard of called "Zeitcoin", as there are 5 million PoS coins exactly identical to it that everyone has already discussed millions of times before. No more 4am infomercials from the Shamwow Zeit salesmen will be necessary.
New post to better articulate why permissioned ledger, closed entopy systems likely have no value:
You are really hooked on the word permissioned to the point of a useless obsession.
Example:
The US dollar could be considered a permissioned system , since the Government Prints it and then disburses it thru the banking system to the consumer.
If your above statement in red was accurate, then it would have 0 value and be ignored.
But in the Real World , Value is agreed upon by both parties during the exchange of goods & services.
If I don't feel the US $ value is high enough , I raise my rates or request payment from another system such as Gold, Yuan, or others.
So your statement likely have no value is false & misleading.
Every System is permissioned based, including your precious BTC.
Those good old soviet tactics:
"One of two major Soviet counteroffensives which followed Stalingrad, Operation Mars was such an incredible disaster that the Soviet Union simply omitted it from subsequent histories."
"One of two major Soviet counteroffensives which followed Stalingrad, Operation Mars was such an incredible disaster that the Soviet Union simply omitted it from subsequent histories."
Just more bullshit. Noone expected anything different from you.
Was looking at google search results. It's hilarious how many bogus threads with similar names these Russians created to try and distract people from this thread.
I think you created them to make it hard to google for that case where you lost the face.
Those good old soviet tactics:
"One of two major Soviet counteroffensives which followed Stalingrad, Operation Mars was such an incredible disaster that the Soviet Union simply omitted it from subsequent histories."
Was looking at google search results. It's hilarious how many bogus threads with similar names these Russians created to try and distract people from this thread.
I think you created them to make it hard to google for that case where you lost the face.
Was looking at google search results. It's hilarious how many bogus threads with similar names these Russians created to try and distract people from this thread.
r0ach, I quoted your post about NEM.
An example of what happens with permissioned ledger, closed entropy systems in the market. This NEM coin (standard PoS with some rube goldberg mechanisms on top of it) was pumped to a huge market cap. Just like what happened with NXT, it now just kind of sits there with nobody really wanting to do anything with it. This is crazy low volume compared to the 400-500 volume most altcoins have on the Bologniex casino nowadays:
These closed entropy systems where the entire coin supply was issued at genesis had their brief time in the sun because people were fascinated by the idea of not having their shares temporarily diluted through mining, but now there are so many of them, the novelty is gone and people are forced to re-examine what actually constitutes a decentralized currency in the first place. It will be just like NXT. The market cap will remain high, but the buy side will constantly wither away until the sum of the buy side is only 15 BTC (like NXT was a few months ago). This makes them "roach motels" where you're theoretically wealthy, but nobody can actually exit the coin at all.
These closed entropy systems where the entire coin supply was issued at genesis had their brief time in the sun because people were fascinated by the idea of not having their shares temporarily diluted through mining, but now there are so many of them, the novelty is gone and people are forced to re-examine what actually constitutes a decentralized currency in the first place. It will be just like NXT. The market cap will remain high, but the buy side will constantly wither away until the sum of the buy side is only 15 BTC (like NXT was a few months ago). This makes them "roach motels" where you're theoretically wealthy, but nobody can actually exit the coin at all.
It's just an externality that can change at any given time. I guess it's only a problem if you for some reason believe sha256 will not be commoditized. The fact that energy costs keep becoming an ever higher percentage of the price per Bitcoin instead of hardware seems like it won't be a problem.
I see no evidence of that. In the GPU mining era, there was no extraordinarily efficient mining as there is now with the most efficient ASICs. All Bitcoins had approximately the same energy input. Now there a steep curve between the least efficient but still-viable ASICs and the most efficient. The area above that curve is missing energy. As far as I can tell the energy density of Bitcoin has decreased.
I calculated the upfront hardware costs vs energy costs as a percentage of 1 Bitcoin between when that big Spoondoolies unit was originally released and also around a year or so before it.
You are citing as a data source a vaporware miner that was never shipped to customers and may not even exist.
With better analysis you will find that I am correct.
I do agree this it may happen at some time in the future. When I don't know, but not yet.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/i-just-want-to-ask-about-spondoolies-sp50-1390781
I wasn't aware that spoondoolies thing never shipped. Regardless, there wasn't much difference in it and other top units at the time.
It's just an externality that can change at any given time. I guess it's only a problem if you for some reason believe sha256 will not be commoditized. The fact that energy costs keep becoming an ever higher percentage of the price per Bitcoin instead of hardware seems like it won't be a problem.
I see no evidence of that. In the GPU mining era, there was no extraordinarily efficient mining as there is now with the most efficient ASICs. All Bitcoins had approximately the same energy input. Now there a steep curve between the least efficient but still-viable ASICs and the most efficient. The area above that curve is missing energy. As far as I can tell the energy density of Bitcoin has decreased.
I calculated the upfront hardware costs vs energy costs as a percentage of 1 Bitcoin between when that big Spoondoolies unit was originally released and also around a year or so before it.
You are citing as a data source a vaporware miner that was never shipped to customers and may not even exist.
With better analysis you will find that I am correct.
I do agree this it may happen at some time in the future. When I don't know, but not yet.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/i-just-want-to-ask-about-spondoolies-sp50-1390781
Does either of your analysis, include the additional electricity costs of cooling the environment the ASICS are housed in?
As that will ad overhead especially when the outside temps are warmer.
It's just an externality that can change at any given time. I guess it's only a problem if you for some reason believe sha256 will not be commoditized. The fact that energy costs keep becoming an ever higher percentage of the price per Bitcoin instead of hardware seems like it won't be a problem.
I see no evidence of that. In the GPU mining era, there was no extraordinarily efficient mining as there is now with the most efficient ASICs. All Bitcoins had approximately the same energy input. Now there a steep curve between the least efficient but still-viable ASICs and the most efficient. The area above that curve is missing energy. As far as I can tell the energy density of Bitcoin has decreased.
I calculated the upfront hardware costs vs energy costs as a percentage of 1 Bitcoin between when that big Spoondoolies unit was originally released and also around a year or so before it.
You are citing as a data source a vaporware miner that was never shipped to customers and may not even exist.
With better analysis you will find that I am correct.
I do agree this it may happen at some time in the future. When I don't know, but not yet.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/i-just-want-to-ask-about-spondoolies-sp50-1390781
This would lead me to believe that SHA256 is in fact being commoditized.
Which I would expect to be the case. Improvements should stabilize at rate of Moore's law at best.
It's just an externality that can change at any given time. I guess it's only a problem if you for some reason believe sha256 will not be commoditized. The fact that energy costs keep becoming an ever higher percentage of the price per Bitcoin instead of hardware seems like it won't be a problem.
I see no evidence of that. In the GPU mining era, there was no extraordinarily efficient mining as there is now with the most efficient ASICs. All Bitcoins had approximately the same energy input. Now there a steep curve between the least efficient but still-viable ASICs and the most efficient. The area above that curve is missing energy. As far as I can tell the energy density of Bitcoin has decreased.
I calculated the upfront hardware costs vs energy costs as a percentage of 1 Bitcoin between when that big Spoondoolies unit was originally released and also around a year or so before it. The hardware cost as a percentage of coin cost is going down while the energy cost goes up. This would lead me to believe that SHA256 is in fact being commoditized.
I suppose that comment speaks for itself, lol.
Your "side channel" attack trying to villify the famous long r0ach silver of the high seas and Bitcoin with implications he can't be trusted due to not being politically correct, probably doesn't work worth a flying shit in a thread inhabited almost entirely by Russians.
Sorry, you only added that end after the twitter after I quoted you - "honest" indeed.
Your "side channel" attack trying to villify the famous long r0ach silver of the high seas and Bitcoin with implications he can't be trusted due to not being politically correct, probably doesn't work worth a flying shit in a thread inhabited almost entirely by Russians.
Sorry, you only added that end after the twitter after I quoted you - "honest" indeed.
Your "side channel" attack trying to villify the famous long r0ach silver of the high seas and Bitcoin with implications he can't be trusted due to not being politically correct (i.e. cultural marxism), probably doesn't work worth a flying shit in a thread inhabited almost entirely by Russians.
Sorry, you only added that end after the twitter after I quoted you - "honest" indeed.
Just, for those interested in other ideas by thread starter ROACH:
It's always fun listening to your diversity nonsense when you don't seem to know anything about human sociology. There's no such thing as a "majority" and "minority" within a nation. Nations are always based on ethnocentric majorities. Either the minority group integrates and essentially ceases to exist, one group is eliminated through war, or the nation splits and goes their separate ways. Even with all the insane Marxist propaganda you and your people try to push on "the goy", the intermarriage rates between Caucasians and Africans is so miniscule, that integration is clearly a failure and not going to ever happen, even with coercion. And why would the two groups integrate? White genes are recessive, so by integrating, you would essentially be committing suicide on purpose.
But there's not a whole lot of benefit in Africans being unwilling participants in this forced collectivism either. Since not all blacks are entirely puppets of Jewish, Marxist propaganda, used as tools to try and further different motives, they realized these facts as well. Rather than being cattled into forced collectivism, which will obviously never work, people like Marcus Garvey wanted a "pans-africa" movement, or simply going back to Africa instead to live as the majority there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Garvey
Instead, what we really have going on today, is Jewish terrorists like George Soros funding "black lives matter" to use them as pawns. When the majority of America notices the financial system imploding, George Soros knows exactly who we're going to come looking for. He funds black lives matter with millions of dollars to try and create a buffer, or more immediate, tangible problem in front of you so you're too busy to go after people like him. That's all "black lives matter" is, a buffer, a group being used as pawns.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/14/george-soros-funds-ferguson-protests-hopes-to-spur/?page=all
More on the life of people like George Soros:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2626002/posts
Good job "buffer" idiots!:
I suppose we should all buy more IOTA. Or, further, just do everything the OPPOSITE of what he suggests.
It's always fun listening to your diversity nonsense when you don't seem to know anything about human sociology. There's no such thing as a "majority" and "minority" within a nation. Nations are always based on ethnocentric majorities. Either the minority group integrates and essentially ceases to exist, one group is eliminated through war, or the nation splits and goes their separate ways. Even with all the insane Marxist propaganda you and your people try to push on "the goy", the intermarriage rates between Caucasians and Africans is so miniscule, that integration is clearly a failure and not going to ever happen, even with coercion. And why would the two groups integrate? White genes are recessive, so by integrating, you would essentially be committing suicide on purpose.
But there's not a whole lot of benefit in Africans being unwilling participants in this forced collectivism either. Since not all blacks are entirely puppets of Jewish, Marxist propaganda, used as tools to try and further different motives, they realized these facts as well. Rather than being cattled into forced collectivism, which will obviously never work, people like Marcus Garvey wanted a "pans-africa" movement, or simply going back to Africa instead to live as the majority there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Garvey
Instead, what we really have going on today, is Jewish terrorists like George Soros funding "black lives matter" to use them as pawns. When the majority of America notices the financial system imploding, George Soros knows exactly who we're going to come looking for. He funds black lives matter with millions of dollars to try and create a buffer, or more immediate, tangible problem in front of you so you're too busy to go after people like him. That's all "black lives matter" is, a buffer, a group being used as pawns.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/14/george-soros-funds-ferguson-protests-hopes-to-spur/?page=all
More on the life of people like George Soros:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2626002/posts
Good job "buffer" idiots!:
I suppose we should all buy more IOTA. Or, further, just do everything the OPPOSITE of what he suggests.
I guess it's only a problem if you for some reason believe sha256 will not be commoditized. The fact that energy costs keep becoming an ever higher percentage of the price per Bitcoin instead of hardware seems like it won't be a problem.
The greater proportion of mining costs that are due to electricity, then the more exclusive mining becomes. Because there are a finite number of slots next to hydropower plants. Not to mention, that the powers-that-be in government can probably provide the electricity for free and charge it to the collective. Utilities are one of the highest regulated, collectivist corruptions on earth.
Edit: even heating your home with the miners is not profitable because heat generated from electricity is much more expensive than from carbon fuels. And even micro-hydropower won't reach the 2 - 4 cents cost of large scale hydropower unless you can amortize the construction and capital cost over several years:
http://www.rockyhydro.com/Generators.php
And that doesn't even include the cost of the land and the rarer locations where there is enough flow and head drop to make it worth while.
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