Topic: Is a Madmax outcome coming before 2020? Thus do we need anonymity? - page 6. (Read 102822 times)

Who would use an Anonymous internet?


I think those that will be the most aggressive in supporting the anonymous internet I envision, are those who:

1) Have everything to hide because they are the knowledge age workers (e.g. programmers and hackers) which for example Obama wants to regulate as a public utility and DHS wants to censor as terrorists due to employing our right of free speech to criticize the government's policies. It is known the IRS has been used to attack political enemies and it is very difficult to fight an IRS audit or unjust judgement.

2) Are fucking tired of funding the welfare state and the government's perpetual wars.

3) Don't like the idea of Facebook et al tracking every thing they do and dislike the imminent digital fiat system which will track every transaction we do.

4) The billions in the developing world which are tired of funding the corrupt politicians and politically connected families which have looted their economies for decades.


Yeah I think it should be easy to start a global mass movement for anonymity if we can make anonymity easy and automatic.

The statists will resist and can huddle together with their governments and digital fiats and tax themselves into oblivion. Meanwhile, we the rest of the people will carry on prosperously without that ball-and-chain around our neck.

I put in all that effort just for you, and this is how you treat me?


Maybe I can't "grasp" concepts because they are immaterial? 

Do you mean

A)  If you've done nothing wrong you've nothing to hide

B)  If you have nothing (to lose) you've nothing to hide

C)  Something completely different?

As 'most people'  on this planet have nothing in the way of monetary or tangible wealth, B  seems most likely, but then the less one has, the more that little is likely valued.  If you want to keep what you've got, you need to either hide it, or hide it behind a threat/act of violence of magnitude greater than that which would take it from you.  Anonymity seems the least costly way of hiding your wealth and freedom from those willing to take it from you.

For most of people don't really need anonymous.

http://blog.mpettis.com/2014/12/how-might-a-china-slowdown-affect-the-world/

I don't respond to blahblahblah because he can't grasp simple concepts.

Correction: centralization in the presence of any pressures, such as the need to survive in a competitive environment. Taxation is just one example of a cost. It's cherry-picking and unfair lynching because it's easily identifiable and therefore a soft target.

Other costs of doing productive work might be the time spent, or the "sweat" energy required. But there the feedback loop is much tighter: people quickly notice that as soon as they stop working, the resources stop flowing. It doesn't require a high IQ to see the connection. However, the bigger the organisation and the more layers of indirection and bureaucratic absorption, the harder it is to see who pays for your servants to clean for you.


The error An-Capers and Libertarians are making is failing to identify government as an unavoidable consequence of a long evolutionary series of private mergers and acquisitions, economies of scale, internal cooperation / mutual back-scratching, hostile takeovers, anti-competitive behaviour, maintaining hegemony, corruption-collapse-rebuilding, and all that other utopian freedom-loving goodness.


Resources pushing out from the centre? Care to elaborate? Sounds like sunlight, or some low-entropy state bathing everyone with excess energy, in which case the flow should be instantaneous unless there's friction. You seem to be complaining that the friction doesn't start at the skin of the organism, rather it starts somewhere outside, feeding a layer of bureaucratic fat. IMO a much bigger disruption than 3d printers and related individual knowledge creation tools, would be a breakthrough with domestic LENR/cold fusion/whatever ultra-safe and abundant energy that bypasses the oil and gas giants. Then you get your reversal.

I have an idea.
What if instead of moving to Knowledge Age, we move straight to Joyful Age.

In Joyful Age your joy becomes money.
It's inherently decentralized system because everyone can generate joy by doing things that they feel most passionate about. Think of it! What is more joyful - to know something or to learn something? What is more joyful - a static state or a process? Maybe that's why a system, where different competing incompatible paradigms alternate between each other, exists. It's called time. I will tell you the secret - time never started and it will never end, because it runs in a circle.

Everything is created to have joy and yet you are given a choice to not have it. See, in order to have joy of "rising from the ashes", for example, we need to create ashes first and then convince ourselves to get there. The problem is that sometimes this process takes so long that by the time we are there we have completely forgotten what the purpose was in the first place

So instead of waiting that someone will come and give us joy, why don't we generate joy ourselves and share it with others? The Universe will take care of the rest, she is a grown girl after all, she knows how to handle herself.

I mean statism has almost become a religion, it's the religion of the 21st century. Now i`m an atheist myself, but i have many christian friends, and i also grew up in a christian household, my country is very religious.

And even though religion starts to lose power in the western world, it's influence finally starts to diminish, more and more atheists are coming out, and leaving religions.

And not just atheists, but even amongs my religious friends, they also gave up going to church, they remained chirsitan, but they just dont follow the mainstream churches, because we all know what organized religion does (hint: extreme pedophelia, genocide, crusade, spreading AIDS,etc) , and all my religious friends despise this, so even them as they cant give up religion, atlease they stopped going to churches and now they form decentralized religious communities, sort of like a praying community.

So you can see that even the religious people are now against the organized religion's powerhungry agenda, and the organized religions become more and more decentralized, and start to lose more and more influence.

However this is only 1 victory, the 100.000 year old beast (religion) finally is on its deathbead, a new beast has risen up, an even more ferocious beast, which is only 5000-6000 year old and has already caused more harm in these brief 5000 years, than the religion has ever caused in the 100.000 years.

The new beast is called the state, and its almost like a religion, an anachist has called it the religion of the 21st century, whereas many new atheists, despite the fact that they reject an invisible God ruling over them, they easily accept another invisible God ruling over them as the State.

Because the State fits almost every definition of a God:
-omnipotent: definitely, in the sense that it rules over all of our lives and can do whatever they want
-omnipresent: yup, mass surveilance, TV and Media propaganda, it's in your house, you neighborhood, and your mind
-omniscient: yes, it thinks that it knows everything,thus it makes you follow it as it thinks that it knows everything better than you do
-omni-belevolent: definitely not, but funny because even the christian god has comitted genocide and its depicted as belevolent, so the state comitting genocides in the 20st century, yet in every media its depicted as the wonderfuly protector of the nation
-invisible: yes
-requires worship: oh yes, definitely
-rewards the obedient and punishes the wicked? : yes, good statist drones get government aid, bad statist drones go to jail
-requires blood sacrifices: yes from time to time it requires people to sacrifice their lives to it: wars
-requires your money: yes its called taxes
-has earthly representatives: yes its called politicians
-has a place of worship: yes, its called government building or parliament building
-requires people to pray: yes, people protest before a state building to get more welfare
-wants to control our lives: yes, it infiltrates everywhere and wants to control every aspect of your life
-promises you good stuff but never gives you any: yes, before every election you are promised better wages and welfare, but after the election you actually get more regulation and taxes
-does it have inquisitors: yes government agents eliminate the heretics
-does it tolerate heretics: no
-does it like atheists: no, it punishes them with jail in some places
-does it like if you worship another God: no, it considers it treason
-does it commit genocies: yes, throughout the 19 and 20 centuries many examples are well known
-does it like gay people: no, in many european states they ban gay marriage
-does it like abortion: no, in many european states they ban abortion
etc...

So you see, the state is exactly as if it were a God like in the bible, but the big problem is that although the bible god doesnt exist, unfortunately the state God exists. And it's just like a cult, some people would die to protect it, and they are very fanatics.

Elect yourself world president , i`ll vote for you


I mostly agree with you, but let me say one thing about your idea of pushing away the resources.

I think the most important factor is to have a good education system, which not necessarly has to be government, it could be a privatized wonderful system.

Because there are huge problems with the education system worldwide, now i cant speak for the entire world, but i know how it works in my country. Basically its a repetitive drone-like memorization process, where you give X student Y material and he has to memorize it like a drone, instead of understanding.

I`m pretty sure it works the same way across the world, whereas instead of letting the student think for himself, and understand the material, he has to not think for himself, and just memorize it.

I think its a huge propaganda machine, where the statists try to dumb down the average people to become obedient, and never question authority, just like if you were in a military, never question the superior officer or you go to court martial, just like that.

So the edutation system, since it became state managed (after 1900 in various countires, before that we had local techers teaching with more passion), became a huge 12 year long brainwashing facility where you dumb down the average people, and make them obediend and to never question authority and make always what the teacher says.

Now for a student, it might not be so obvious, for me it took many years to figure it out, now i`m in my late 20's but i clearly remember when i was in highschool, how much propaganda was there, and its hard to see it with the eye of a student, but after a few years it becomes obvious.

I even remember my own kindengarten, where it all started, with the fact that you need to ask for permission to go to the toilet, its just a simple think like that, and it wasnt really for anything important ,because they would always let you out to go to the toilet, obviously they wont let you pee on yourself, but the question was really irrelevant.

The motive of the question was more like a psychological, to intimidate the 3 year old child to not do things what he needs to do or wants to do, but instead surrender himself to an authority from a young age and to always ask for a permission.

And believe it or not, but in my highschool aswell you had to ask for permission to go to the toilet, seriously. A 17-18 year old almost graduate student has to ask for permission from the teacher to go to the toilet at 18  

There was just so much propaganda and statist psycho-infiltration there that i get nausea when i think back of my highschool.

And you see this small thing , the asking of permission to go to the toilet, in adulthood results in things like:
-asking the superior (state) for a driving permit to drive cars
-asking the state for a fishing permit to fish
-asking the state for a bulding permit to build a house
-asking the state for a gun permit to carry a gun
-asking the state for a business permit to let you sell stuff in your business
etc....

So you can't do these on your own, you always need to beg the state for those permits, because what difference does it make, i mean what could possibly go wrong if a person just fishes without permit (other than the fact that get gets a huge fine and up to 1 year jail), i mean he doesnt hurt anybody, but the state just doesnt like people to think for themselves.

The state must always infiltrate your life, it infiltrates in your TV, the internet, your personal life, and even in your mind, and its just horrible how much propaganda you get nowadays.

So my original point was, that if you want to start to change anything, we need first to wake up from this brainwashing propaganda, which starts as soon as one goes to kindengarten, and from age 3 until death, it will manipulate and control your life and also it will intimidate you, harass you and do other evil things to you and every other person on the planet.
First people need to wake up, and stop feeding our children this propaganda, we first of all need a better education system worldwide I think thats the very first step, because if you continue to educate people in this indimidative manner, then obviously they'll become statist drones.

BitcoinFreak12 and interlagos,

Bottom-up organization devolves to centralization and corruption, when taxes need to be collectivized. There is no way to prevent the THE IRON LAW of Political Economics[1]. The salient point is that when resources are collectivized, the flies come to the honey. You can never stop that fact of economics.

We have already tried that, it was called municipal governments, county governments, and state governments. What happened? United States. European Union. Asian Union coming 2015.

Review the relevant discussion in the thread below:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.9933752


The only form of decentralization that will resist centralization is as I have described on this page and the previous page of this thread. Review the post where I explained how to technologically invert the Political Economics so that the resources are pushing away from the center (making the intermediaries dumb) and out to the individuals at the edge of the social interaction network. In this way, paradigms shifts are never suppressed by the center power, because the center has no power.

Please stop this INSANE discussion. You are obscuring the important solutions I have provided. You are rehashing shit that humanity has tried over and over since Mesopotamia and has never worked.

I agree with what you said. My example of family was in terms of a minimal group that required consensus and collaboration, but not in a legal sense of the word. Being an individual is perfectly fine too.

Now regarding first steps and taking action. The system I described would work best if done bottom-up, but reality is such that we already have power clusters operating in the shadow that would likely prevent any competition in this space. So the most appropriate action in our situation is to start opening them up, step by step, little by little. The only way to let black hole evaporate, is to stop feeding it, which means moving away from obscure financial system currently in place to an open and transparent one like Bitcoin.

Anonymity will always be there as a countermeasure, but for now we need to get more open to restore the balance and not let our star system to collapse into another black hole.

Here is my Christmas gift for everyone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-rxe9Ayb8c
Enjoy!

I despise communism, but atleast they had a dream about a better world, with prosperity, their methodology was idiotic and unorganized. Bunch of hippy homeless people and lazy farmers stormed the streets of Leningrad in 1917, that is not a really promising state organization to begin with.

Besides the only reason Stalin and Hitler took place is because the people were desperate, and the economy was in ruins, which was exactly because of the Weimar Republics debt ponzi scheme (sounds familiar...hmm...just like in the USA now).

And in Russia, the tzar also had a debt ponzi scheme running, both in Germany and Russia, they took too much loans as WW1 costed too much, and then they didnt had the ballz to default instead they rand a debt ponzi scheme, which by 1917 in Russia gone critical, so the Socialists had a chance to revolt because of inflation.

Now both the German emperor and the Russian tzar were powerhungry maniacs trying to rule the world, but instead of those, the people replaced them with even bigger powerhungry maniacs: Hitler and Stalin.

So what do you think power can achieve: wars ,famine, pestilence and death (just like told in the Bible, where the world leaders and those who run the debt ponzi scheme are the antichrist  ).

So obviously we need to create a society where nobody can achieve big powers, and that can happen only in the free market, with competition, where if no government is involved and no taxes exist:Anarcho-Capitalism. There would be atleast 5-6 companies on the top hating eachother (never signing any trust agreements), which would compete and none of them could ever destroy the other 4, so the powerbalance can be achieved.

Hey i`m open to any liberty based ideas, I myself am an anarcho-capitalist, but i`d accept even a libertarian world rather than the socialist-corporatist that i`m living in now.

So perhaps we can build the liberty world step by step, and then we can decide how far we will go, full anarcho-capitalist or we would retain a smaller state, but a very small one in a form of a libertarian fully open society.

The issue now remains to take the first step, and dont hesitate

One pointing out though, i dont consider the family as the basic unit, i consider the individual the basis. Because the family can be abusive, or just not exist, orphans, or just simply people who like individuality like I do.

So for example i am not married and i would never marry, because i consider the marriage a socialist-marxist thing, ,a collective household bullsh*t,because you have to share the income and the property, the responsability (household debt),and else, and if you divorce you are forced to give up half, which is a very communist principle.

I`d much happily live with a woman as a couple or girlfriend relation, than to bind myself legally into a communist stupidity. Now you might think its crazy, but its just my view of marriage, i dont like socialist/communist stuff

Agreed

It always puzzled me, that even though each half of the yin-yang symbol contained most of its own color, it also contained the opposite color in its purest form (circle). Think of it what you like

This message from CoinCube was too important to leave in private message. Hope he won't mind if I reply publicly.


1) Contracts shouldn't be designed to require the courts for restitution. This drives collectivism as you duly noted. For example, futures and options contracts should have sufficient collateral attached, and the contract automatically settles when the collateral limit is breached.

Remember my theory about how the Knowledge Age will drive away debt contracts and fractional reserves.

Note even in a contract that requires identity (e.g. photographs and fingerprints) for restitution, the individual can not disappear. He still has a body and that body can be tracked down. This is the way crimes were solved since Mesopotamia. Anonymous internet communication doesn't make it more difficult to hunt down individuals as compared to the way it was done before the internet. There was always anonymous money and transactions in the past. Whereas, if we give the State the power to make all transactions trackable in the imminent switch over to digital currency, we will surely all die in megadeath 666.


2) Pedophilia, rape, murder, assassination have been going on since Mesopotamia. Communications were always anonymous in the past. You want a 666 control system to try to stop what has always existed and you will get instead your nirvana of megadeath.


----

Internet anonymity is nothing like burying gold coins. It doesn't have to be cumbersome nor cost more (but there is a lot of programming work that needs to be done to make it so). It doesn't have to decline the velocity of money and can in fact increase the velocity which has been collapsing, by providing an outlet for the private sector to grow and interopt without the oppression of the State.