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Topic: Is Bitcoin the Trojan horse to help push the move to a world government? (Read 2115 times)

legendary
Activity: 1610
Merit: 1183
You still not addressed my point here:

It will be considered a basic human right that Internet money and access be without borders/barriers. The globalists want this. I believe the elite created Bitcoin as a Trojan horse against nation-state and banking interests selfishness. They are using us to force a wedge between nation-states and banks, and the global village reality of the Internet


I don't really get this theory (conspiracy theory that is) about how Bitcoin is a trojan horse by the so called elite. Why would the elite deploy a software that is open source, and allows people to hide money from the government or anyone else but you and the other party?

Because the nation-states and banks are powerless to stop the lurch to crypto-currency and the global ledger. They simply don't have globalized jurisdiction. This creates a demand for a world government system, so that regulations can be placed on all countries at once. In this way, crypto-currency can be regulated later after the world government takes form. Until then, the nation-states will find themselves powerless to stop crypto-currency unless they shut off the Internet, which they can't do. Even China will succumb (the people already know how to use VPNs to subvert the Great Firewall of China).

I mean people that work for bitcoin, if they never cash out and buy with bitcoin... the circle is closed, government can't never tax any of that,

This is why the nation-states will need to support the creation of a world government. Bitcoin is the Trojan horse that forces them to.

... they will never know how much bitcoin a person that got bitcoin within bitcoin ecosystem be it by mining or by working in exchange of bitcoin has... so what's the point?

Well Bitcoin is traceable if you have the resources of the NSA, but other countries don't have those resources. And more anonymous coins are underway, so yes ultimately governments can't track it if they can't regulate it globally to force a government viewkey to be attached to every transaction. Again crypto-currency breaks the authority of nation-states and renders banks irrelevant. It thus drives the need for a world government and a world bank.

If I was the elite, I would be hating bitcoin and having nightmares about it. I don't see how the elites benefit from bitcoin.

Grasshopper you don't think in sophisticated logic, and that is one reason why you could not ever be a member of the global elite.

Bitcoin is working perfectly as they designed it to do.

Ask yourself this. Does Bitcoin eliminate the need for people to borrow money and will Bitcoin prevent fractional reserve lending? The answer to both is no. And so the business of the global elite is still intact, while they destroy all their competitors with the Bitcoin Trojan horse.

I think bitcoin was simply the work of crypto anarchists/hackers. They saw that the future is digital, and that governments will deploy closed source currencies where they have total control. They saw this coming, and released bitcoin as a way to fight against that. Therefore I don't buy the conspiracy theory of bitcoin being a trojan horse, since I fail to see how the elite benefits in any way from it.

That is of course what they knew you would think. Masterful their plan. They know very well, you could not possible conceive of them making Bitcoin and instead you want to believe that Satoshi Nakamoto is a real person. Lol. Larry Summers has a bellyache from laughing too much.

You bring some good points, but don't you think you are making big assumptions without knowing the actual truth? You are assuming that every country on the planet would agree to be part of that so called World Government, because you are assuming no country would benefit from leaving bitcoin free outside of their business. I claim this is not the case. There will always be some countries that find business into not being part of that World Government while being positive towards bitcoin. For example, I see countries like Switzerland becoming a place that will be very supportive of bitcoin. In fact, they are right now going on that direction:

https://www.sbb.ch/en/station-services/services/further-services/bitcoin.html

Simply put: No matter what, I don't see a global agreement ever happening. There will always be places that will let you host bitcoin nodes, and have financial privacy, therefore the network will always exist.

You also claim how the NSA has unlimited resources to track users, yet, according to leaked Snowden documents, NSA is on record saying how much they literally hate TOR. Now, we know that TOR is the work of the NSA/US intelligence itself, yet we have documents that prove they hate their own creation... this could be extrapolated to Bitcoin assuming that the conspiracy theory of Bitcoin being the work of the NSA (or any government agency you want to link it to). If that were to be true, then it could also be true that they hate their own creation because it got out of their hands and now they can't control it.

In any case, I still think Satoshi Nakamoto is not necessary a single person but a small group of crypto-anarchists/hackers, some of them might be current Bitcoin developers (Adam Back is credited in the whitepaper for example). I don't buy the conspiracy theory, but I will admit we can't fully know, just like we can't fully know how the universe was created, yet you seem to talk as if you know the truth when at the end of the day we are just having some fun speculating about it.

which is a very solid premise in as to why it is irrelevant if Bitcoin is or isn't work of the NSA, since the NSA created Tor, and now the NSA is on record privately hating Tor because they cannot control it and we know it thanks to the Snowden leaks, therefore, Bitcoin could end up the same way if the conspiracy of Satoshi = NSA or affiliates, would be real, which I very doubt so. I still think it was a group of Cryptographers, one of them being Adam Back which is credited in the whitepaper
member
Activity: 67
Merit: 10
I don't like the way that people have viewed bitcoin and despise it's use to become a valid means of exchanging something for it's value.
It makes me sad really to think that people just won't forget about it's tainted past. Cry
legendary
Activity: 1386
Merit: 1020
DGbet.fun - Crypto Sportsbook
Look at china. They had so many people that they decided a democracy would be unsupportable. How can a single government represent the interests of 7 billion people?

The world government will initially not concern itself with issues of local culture, but rather of issues which can only be regulated with a global jurisdiction, such as the regulation of crypto-currency, the SDR international reserve currency basket, and nuclear waste safety.
That is how it starts, look at the euro zone, the experiment began long time ago with a body that had small powers and as time has passed that power has increased to what we have today, and they keep pushing to obtain even more power.

Its not really a shocking thing anymore since every country will really push hard to gain more power and the explanation and example regarding euro is very true. Its just took a little part at first but now its considered as one of the most powerful. Regarding to bitcoin it would really took up time and many things to be discussed first before it will fully adopted.
hero member
Activity: 2884
Merit: 794
I am terrible at Fantasy Football!!!
Look at china. They had so many people that they decided a democracy would be unsupportable. How can a single government represent the interests of 7 billion people?

The world government will initially not concern itself with issues of local culture, but rather of issues which can only be regulated with a global jurisdiction, such as the regulation of crypto-currency, the SDR international reserve currency basket, and nuclear waste safety.
That is how it starts, look at the euro zone, the experiment began long time ago with a body that had small powers and as time has passed that power has increased to what we have today, and they keep pushing to obtain even more power.
newbie
Activity: 10
Merit: 0
Bitcoin and distributed ledger tech certainly set the stage for world government.  I would bet that was not Nakamoto's intention but dumb government types cant come up with this stuff on their own.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
Op shame on you to burst bitcoiners bubble. They should ask epistemological questions - how bitcoin help the world? Does it underlies the mechanisms of the world? No. Does it make usury obsolete? Hell no... most of bitcoin users are happy earning money doing absolutely nothing at someone else expense. Does it makes superpowers weaker? No. It makes China stronger by them having most of bitcoin mines. And USA have a new "threat" on their list justifying enourmous spendings on surveilance.

Instead they think of bitcoin Ontologicly. By asking what is it? They say its just a tool. Its cool. It makes me rich therefore its good etc etc.

It is nice to read an intelligent comment such as this.  Cool


The economics of Bitcoin's security model are well tuned to force control by the global "State":

Btw, in section 7.1 of my whitepaper I have disproved the thesis of this blog:

http://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-cheapest/

PoW is not the cheapest (least wasteful) for the equivalent security. The illiquidity cost in my design orders-of-magnitude less than the illiquidity cost of PoW for comparable security level, because PoW requires a huge globally superior sunk cost to eliminate the risk of rented hashrate attacks. (Smooth this is the essence of Satoshi's flaw which you felt was the weakest point in his whitepaper).

Quote from: @AnonyMint's whitepaper
For example, 10 second finality epochs provide 4320 epochs per day, so its an opportunity cost of 100% interest rate per day if the net profit from service fees earned by the [redacted] nodes are 1 ÷ 4320 of the value of transactions secured by illiquid collateral. The opportunity cost of PoW mining farms is not within orders-of-magnitude of 100% return-on-investment per day. Free market competition will not necessarily drive the return-on-investment from service fees lower because service fees are insignificant thus irrelevant to the transacting participants. Given the lower barrier to entry to and exit from the [redacted] nodes market, the diversified market for service fees can anneal to not lower than any commensurate opportunity cost in the external markets. Whereas, PoW has massive sunk costs barriers to entry/exit which provide dumb/captive (or corrupt charged to the collective, e.g. fiat usury, Yuan/dollar exchange manipulation, subsidized electricity) capital a moat to justify return-on-investment which is only prospectively competitive to external market opportunity costs with a winner-take-all cartel expectation.
legendary
Activity: 1918
Merit: 1012
★Nitrogensports.eu★
Look at china. They had so many people that they decided a democracy would be unsupportable. How can a single government represent the interests of 7 billion people?

The world government will initially not concern itself with issues of local culture, but rather of issues which can only be regulated with a global jurisdiction, such as the regulation of crypto-currency, the SDR international reserve currency basket, and nuclear waste safety.

You already have the International Court of Justice, United Nations, Security Council, etc...
Even if we do move to a world government, what matters is the powers it has. If most of the power is in the hands of the nation states, it will just be status quo.
The presence of a common world currency won't make any difference.
hero member
Activity: 777
Merit: 777
Altbone inc.Burial service for altcoins
Bitcoin removes the necessity of requiring third parties to keep track of personal transactions

Incorrect if you mean to imply that Bitcoin is not centralized:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.16991114

The distinction is that the centralized entities are global. The nation-states can't regulate the miners. But the miners are centralized and will become ever more so. It is a winner-take-all economic paradigm. Why wouldn't the global elite love that?

Decentralized is not the same as distributed!


Correct distribution is the key and ensures the best possible outcome with regards the decentralisation process.Also with todays scenario it is not impossible for the backend monopoly to simply buy the majority of coins mined already while ensuring the price remains feasable for such an operation while having the resources to dominate the mining sector.If you control both the price and the production process you have the ideal monopoly and you just need majority share for full spectrum control while giving a very convincing appearance of decentralisation "power to the people".The visible system itself will be more interested in the blockchain looking for those tax dodgers etc.NOTE to self:Remember to change signature to shelby's new project when he is good to go
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
pride cometh before the fall.

You clearly do not notice the log that is in your own eye.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
Look at china. They had so many people that they decided a democracy would be unsupportable. How can a single government represent the interests of 7 billion people?

The world government will initially not concern itself with issues of local culture, but rather of issues which can only be regulated with a global jurisdiction, such as the regulation of crypto-currency, the SDR international reserve currency basket, and nuclear waste safety.
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
Look at china. They had so many people that they decided a democracy would be unsupportable. How can a single government represent the interests of 7 billion people?
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
If Doug Casey was an idiot, he'd be poor like a certain big mouth on these forums.

In your case, pride cometh before the fall. In Doug's he is smart enough, as I said. He is still a tinfoil hat idiot. He managed to hire some people who are not idiots.

One world government was possible on the basis of creating large unions of countries (EU), this is now falling apart. US is divided too. How do you govern hundreds of small tribes? Power vacuum will not happen, there are a lot of leaders hungry for power, the vacuum will be filled on all levels at light speed.


Thanks for confirming you don't know the applicable meaning of "power vacuum" in this context.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
No, I don't think that bitcoin is the trojan horse because it is already in the public the bitcoin so it is not something secret.

The original Trojan horse was publicly wheeled inside the gates. Study history.

And one thing that we should notice is that if the governments want they can shut down and ban the bitcoin businesses and the bitcoin infrastructure itself.

Lol, you entirely didn't understand the thread. Try again to read.
legendary
Activity: 1610
Merit: 1183
It will be considered a basic human right that Internet money and access be without borders/barriers. The globalists want this. I believe the elite created Bitcoin as a Trojan horse against nation-state and banking interests selfishness. They are using us to force a wedge between nation-states and banks, and the global village reality of the Internet


I don't really get this theory (conspiracy theory that is) about how Bitcoin is a trojan horse by the so called elite. Why would the elite deploy a software that is open source, and allows people to hide money from the government or anyone else but you and the other party?

Because the nation-states and banks are powerless to stop the lurch to crypto-currency and the global ledger. They simply don't have globalized jurisdiction. This creates a demand for a world government system, so that regulations can be placed on all countries at once. In this way, crypto-currency can be regulated later after the world government takes form. Until then, the nation-states will find themselves powerless to stop crypto-currency unless they shut off the Internet, which they can't do. Even China will succumb (the people already know how to use VPNs to subvert the Great Firewall of China).

I mean people that work for bitcoin, if they never cash out and buy with bitcoin... the circle is closed, government can't never tax any of that,

This is why the nation-states will need to support the creation of a world government. Bitcoin is the Trojan horse that forces them to.

... they will never know how much bitcoin a person that got bitcoin within bitcoin ecosystem be it by mining or by working in exchange of bitcoin has... so what's the point?

Well Bitcoin is traceable if you have the resources of the NSA, but other countries don't have those resources. And more anonymous coins are underway, so yes ultimately governments can't track it if they can't regulate it globally to force a government viewkey to be attached to every transaction. Again crypto-currency breaks the authority of nation-states and renders banks irrelevant. It thus drives the need for a world government and a world bank.

If I was the elite, I would be hating bitcoin and having nightmares about it. I don't see how the elites benefit from bitcoin.

Grasshopper you don't think in sophisticated logic, and that is one reason why you could not ever be a member of the global elite.

Bitcoin is working perfectly as they designed it to do.

Ask yourself this. Does Bitcoin eliminate the need for people to borrow money and will Bitcoin prevent fractional reserve lending? The answer to both is no. And so the business of the global elite is still intact, while they destroy all their competitors with the Bitcoin Trojan horse.

I think bitcoin was simply the work of crypto anarchists/hackers. They saw that the future is digital, and that governments will deploy closed source currencies where they have total control. They saw this coming, and released bitcoin as a way to fight against that. Therefore I don't buy the conspiracy theory of bitcoin being a trojan horse, since I fail to see how the elite benefits in any way from it.

That is of course what they knew you would think. Masterful their plan. They know very well, you could not possible conceive of them making Bitcoin and instead you want to believe that Satoshi Nakamoto is a real person. Lol. Larry Summers has a bellyache from laughing too much.

You bring some good points, but don't you think you are making big assumptions without knowing the actual truth? You are assuming that every country on the planet would agree to be part of that so called World Government, because you are assuming no country would benefit from leaving bitcoin free outside of their business. I claim this is not the case. There will always be some countries that find business into not being part of that World Government while being positive towards bitcoin. For example, I see countries like Switzerland becoming a place that will be very supportive of bitcoin. In fact, they are right now going on that direction:

https://www.sbb.ch/en/station-services/services/further-services/bitcoin.html

Simply put: No matter what, I don't see a global agreement ever happening. There will always be places that will let you host bitcoin nodes, and have financial privacy, therefore the network will always exist.

You also claim how the NSA has unlimited resources to track users, yet, according to leaked Snowden documents, NSA is on record saying how much they literally hate TOR. Now, we know that TOR is the work of the NSA/US intelligence itself, yet we have documents that prove they hate their own creation... this could be extrapolated to Bitcoin assuming that the conspiracy theory of Bitcoin being the work of the NSA (or any government agency you want to link it to). If that were to be true, then it could also be true that they hate their own creation because it got out of their hands and now they can't control it.

In any case, I still think Satoshi Nakamoto is not necessary a single person but a small group of crypto-anarchists/hackers, some of them might be current Bitcoin developers (Adam Back is credited in the whitepaper for example). I don't buy the conspiracy theory, but I will admit we can't fully know, just like we can't fully know how the universe was created, yet you seem to talk as if you know the truth when at the end of the day we are just having some fun speculating about it.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1074
I think these "Blockchain based" technologies that are being created by R3 and the banks might be the first step towards that agenda. They

need a technology where they have the control, and Bitcoin is definitely not a technology that are being controlled by a single entity. Would

you choose Bitcoin, if that was your agenda.. Nope, you would get a team of developers to develop your own "Tool" so that you can control

and manipulate all the aspects of this technology... not wait for consensus from the public to do what you want to do.  Wink
legendary
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1003
No, I don't think that bitcoin is the trojan horse because it is already in the public the bitcoin so it is not something secret.

And one thing that we should notice is that if the governments want they can shut down and ban the bitcoin businesses and the bitcoin infrastructure itself.
hv_
legendary
Activity: 2548
Merit: 1055
Clean Code and Scale
It will be considered a basic human right that Internet money and access be without borders/barriers. The globalists want this. I believe the elite created Bitcoin as a Trojan horse against nation-state and banking interests selfishness. They are using us to force a wedge between nation-states and banks, and the global village reality of the Internet


I don't really get this theory (conspiracy theory that is) about how Bitcoin is a trojan horse by the so called elite. Why would the elite deploy a software that is open source, and allows people to hide money from the government or anyone else but you and the other party?

Because the nation-states and banks are powerless to stop the lurch to crypto-currency and the global ledger. They simply don't have globalized jurisdiction. This creates a demand for a world government system, so that regulations can be placed on all countries at once. In this way, crypto-currency can be regulated later after the world government takes form. Until then, the nation-states will find themselves powerless to stop crypto-currency unless they shut off the Internet, which they can't do. Even China will succumb (the people already know how to use VPNs to subvert the Great Firewall of China).

I mean people that work for bitcoin, if they never cash out and buy with bitcoin... the circle is closed, government can't never tax any of that,

This is why the nation-states will need to support the creation of a world government. Bitcoin is the Trojan horse that forces them to.

... they will never know how much bitcoin a person that got bitcoin within bitcoin ecosystem be it by mining or by working in exchange of bitcoin has... so what's the point?

Well Bitcoin is traceable if you have the resources of the NSA, but other countries don't have those resources. And more anonymous coins are underway, so yes ultimately governments can't track it if they can't regulate it globally to force a government viewkey to be attached to every transaction. Again crypto-currency breaks the authority of nation-states and renders banks irrelevant. It thus drives the need for a world government and a world bank.

If I was the elite, I would be hating bitcoin and having nightmares about it. I don't see how the elites benefit from bitcoin.

Grasshopper you don't think in sophisticated logic, and that is one reason why you could not ever be a member of the global elite.

Bitcoin is working perfectly as they designed it to do.

Ask yourself this. Does Bitcoin eliminate the need for people to borrow money and will Bitcoin prevent fractional reserve lending? The answer to both is no. And so the business of the global elite is still intact, while they destroy all their competitors with the Bitcoin Trojan horse.

I think bitcoin was simply the work of crypto anarchists/hackers. They saw that the future is digital, and that governments will deploy closed source currencies where they have total control. They saw this coming, and released bitcoin as a way to fight against that. Therefore I don't buy the conspiracy theory of bitcoin being a trojan horse, since I fail to see how the elite benefits in any way from it.

That is of course what they knew you would think. Masterful their plan. They know very well, you could not possible conceive of them making Bitcoin and instead you want to believe that Satoshi Nakamoto is a real person. Lol. Larry Summers has a bellyache from laughing too much.

Thanks for your great OP that made me thinking of this:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/blockchain-is-the-trojan-horse-that-will-push-bankers-and-investors-finally-to-bitcoin-1695006
hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
Op shame on you to burst bitcoiners bubble. They should ask epistemological questions - how bitcoin help the world? Does it underlies the mechanisms of the world? No. Does it make usury obsolete? Hell no... most of bitcoin users are happy earning money doing absolutely nothing at someone else expense. Does it makes superpowers weaker? No. It makes China stronger by them having most of bitcoin mines. And USA have a new "threat" on their list justifying enourmous spendings on surveilance.

Instead they think of bitcoin Ontologicly. By asking what is it? They say its just a tool. Its cool. It makes me rich therefore its good etc etc.
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
A splendid interview with Doug Casey that can put all your worries about the world government to rest.
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2016/11/nick-giambruno/nation-states-brink-failure/

Doug Casey is a smart idiot, like most other tinfoil hats.

The disintegration of large nation-states into a plethora of smaller ones is precisely what creates the power vacuum that will make the world government possible. Duh.

Why do you think that Rothshilds is protecting Wikileaks and encouraging the destruction of the nation-state, by exposing corruption and for example fomenting a civil war between liberals and conservatives in the USA.

If Doug Casey was an idiot, he'd be poor like a certain big mouth on these forums.

One world government was possible on the basis of creating large unions of countries (EU), this is now falling apart. US is divided too. How do you govern hundreds of small tribes? Power vacuum will not happen, there are a lot of leaders hungry for power, the vacuum will be filled on all levels at light speed.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
cjmoles & Milkduds,

The globalists have ultimate control over the mining cartel that ultimately captures Bitcoin. Proof-of-work can't remain decentralized (even without scaling, but even more true the more it scales). Period. It is economically impossible.

So you can be as organized as you want to be, but that still doesn't give you any alternative money system which your idealistic hearts can prevent the powers-that-be from controlling.

I think both of you guys would prefer not to live in a civilization and instead revoke the maximum division-of-labor (i.e. Adam Smith's Invisible Hand) and go live "on the other side of moon" at the standard-of-living of the Amish. Well actually worse than that, because at least the Amish acknowledge trade with the outside world and its money system.

The rest of the world will not follow you there...

But....if they "capture" all the bitcoin, then the bitcoin will have no value.

Capturing the control over mining doesn't transfer all the Bitcoin to them (each BTC holder can have control over his/her own private keys). It just means they can control what they want to control such as turning off the ability to transact for someone they deem to be a problem (the 666 Digital Kill Switch I predicted in 2013). They could then also inflate the money supply beyond 21 million coins and/or set transaction fees as high as the market will bear.

https://gist.github.com/shelby3/e90a45604969f1ed64395b0b72a56487
https://gist.github.com/shelby3/c0d6e0ed132be7e4577df3663c81ee09
https://gist.github.com/shelby3/67111f328822a36beb4cad1a5220eb33

That doesn't necessarily destroy the value of Bitcoin if they manage it well. It can also increase the value of Bitcoin, because it becomes an approved and accepted form of money in their IMF, World Bank, UN, etc global institutional system.
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