Is bitcoin transaction fees fair? - page 58.

7jaka7

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Quote from: FlightyPouch on May 14, 2017, 04:44:21 PM

Quote from: 7jaka7 on May 14, 2017, 04:26:59 PM

Once the transactions fee will be too high most of people will use lower fees.
Maybe it just needs some time to stabilize. ~~We must not forget that Bitcoin is still just a big experiment.~~

I don't get what you have said, why will people use a lower fee if the price needed a high transaction fee, not making any sense, isn't it? And I dont think that the fee is that unfair, given the price of bitcoin, and why would we transact a bitcoin that is almost equivalent to the fee? It will be making the miners mistaken that it is a spam.

I was watching at this page.
https://bitcoinfees.21.co/
I thought if everyone would use 1-20 satoshis per byte there wouldn't be a lot of prioritizing. Which would result in lower fees (avarage) and about same confirmation time. (If i am wrong please correct me).
P.S. isn't bitcoin still experiment? I doubt anyone can predict all the things that will happen to it.

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Quote from: 7jaka7 on May 14, 2017, 04:26:59 PM

Once the transactions fee will be too high most of people will use lower fees.
Maybe it just needs some time to stabilize. ~~We must not forget that Bitcoin is still just a big experiment.~~

I don't get what you have said, why will people use a lower fee if the price needed a high transaction fee, not making any sense, isn't it? And I dont think that the fee is that unfair, given the price of bitcoin, and why would we transact a bitcoin that is almost equivalent to the fee? It will be making the miners mistaken that it is a spam.

7jaka7

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Once the transactions fee will be too high most of people will use lower fees.
Maybe it just needs some time to stabilize. We must not forget that Bitcoin is still just a big experiment.

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Quote from: Pettuh4 on May 14, 2017, 08:36:19 AM

Well to me it's unfair compared to the past few months but if we compare to fiat payment processors I'd say we should give the miners a break because this is far cheaper.

For sums under 50$ it's not cheaper than most other alternatives and for micro payments the fee exceeds already the transferable amount.

Quote from: AngelSky on May 14, 2017, 09:01:44 AM

Quote from: Pettuh4 on May 14, 2017, 08:36:19 AM

Well to me it's unfair compared to the past few months but if we compare to fiat payment processors I'd say we should give the miners a break because this is far cheaper.

Yes, fees has been increased gradually in online wallets like coinbase, xapo, block chain and etc. Time for confirmations also increased to large when compare with few months back
It's just network fee for the transaction so why it's been increased the time as well?

Because the demand for a space in the block for the transaction has also increased.
That's why.

AngelSky

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Quote from: Pettuh4 on May 14, 2017, 08:36:19 AM

Well to me it's unfair compared to the past few months but if we compare to fiat payment processors I'd say we should give the miners a break because this is far cheaper.

Yes, fees has been increased gradually in online wallets like coinbase, xapo, block chain and etc. Time for confirmations also increased to large when compare with few months back
It's just network fee for the transaction so why it's been increased the time as well?

markjamrobin

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Quote from: bitbunnny on May 13, 2017, 07:19:46 AM

Many users are not happy with high fees, some even so much that they want to quit using Bitcoin. Sometimes fees are exaggerated but good wallet can solve the issue with proposed transactions fee that will not stop it from beeing confirmed but also that is fair enough. But have the miners become too gready that is another question.

A wallet is not a good proposition; it does not really affect the transactions and costs that you pay. Bitcoin needs a measure, and that is segwit, it's the best way to perfect bitcoin.

Pettuh4

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Well to me it's unfair compared to the past few months but if we compare to fiat payment processors I'd say we should give the miners a break because this is far cheaper.

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Many users are not happy with high fees, some even so much that they want to quit using Bitcoin. Sometimes fees are exaggerated but good wallet can solve the issue with proposed transactions fee that will not stop it from beeing confirmed but also that is fair enough. But have the miners become too gready that is another question.

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Quote from: CyberKuro on May 12, 2017, 08:45:44 PM

Quote from: Sundark on May 12, 2017, 02:14:59 PM

Quote from: fullypak on May 12, 2017, 01:29:38 PM

This process is a little bit risky, and we can not save more money. The transaction fee is high for low amount transfer people. But it is a fair amount for high amount traders. The problem is the transaction fee is fixed that is the problem. It should be fixed by how much amount we can transfer means ok. But it is not like that for the small or big amount the fee is same that is the problem.

Bitcoin is not good micropayment solution, transaction fee is now more than $1 which completely eliminates reason behind every transaction lower than $1 worth of BTC
You simply do not sent $1 and pay 100% transaction fee. Bitcoin transaction fee is linked to the amount of data being send so as long as it is low it should be better option than standard percentage fee.

Blockchain.info shows we should pay at least 120sat/BTC, yes transaction fee depends on your transaction size. But, more than $1 is higher than some remittance fee and we should wait for uncertain time to get the transaction confirmed. I've been waiting for 3 days but my transaction still stuck on limbo and seems $2 fee is not enough for now, even though my transaction didn't exceed 0.8BTC

The value of your transaction is not affecting the fee.
The size of it does.
Was your tx normal or with a whole load of inputs?

Ar 2$ (???really?) it means bye bye buying anything below 20$ with btc.
I've paid my last vpn bills via paypal , yeah I know... paypal but i'm bot going to pay ever 10% extra for a 8$ bill

Quote from: favours on May 12, 2017, 08:15:40 PM

Fees are insane. I paid $6 to transfer 0.4BTC and zero confs in 3 hours.

6$

Can you post the tx please if its not a secret?

CyberKuro

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Quote from: Sundark on May 12, 2017, 02:14:59 PM

Quote from: fullypak on May 12, 2017, 01:29:38 PM

This process is a little bit risky, and we can not save more money. The transaction fee is high for low amount transfer people. But it is a fair amount for high amount traders. The problem is the transaction fee is fixed that is the problem. It should be fixed by how much amount we can transfer means ok. But it is not like that for the small or big amount the fee is same that is the problem.

Bitcoin is not good micropayment solution, transaction fee is now more than $1 which completely eliminates reason behind every transaction lower than $1 worth of BTC
You simply do not sent $1 and pay 100% transaction fee. Bitcoin transaction fee is linked to the amount of data being send so as long as it is low it should be better option than standard percentage fee.

Blockchain.info shows we should pay at least 120sat/BTC, yes transaction fee depends on your transaction size. But, more than $1 is higher than some remittance fee and we should wait for uncertain time to get the transaction confirmed. I've been waiting for 3 days but my transaction still stuck on limbo and seems $2 fee is not enough for now, even though my transaction didn't exceed 0.8BTC

erpbridge

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Quote from: favours on May 12, 2017, 08:15:40 PM

Fees are insane. I paid $6 to transfer 0.4BTC and zero confs in 3 hours.

6$ ? You ended up doing that to yourself. At the current price a fees of around 0.0006 should suffice for 0.4 btc. That is around 1.2$. Why did you pay 6$ of fees for transacting that amount ? It is not that high right now.

favours

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Fees are insane. I paid $6 to transfer 0.4BTC and zero confs in 3 hours.

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Quote from: MingLee on May 12, 2017, 06:05:59 PM

Quote from: Sadlife on May 12, 2017, 12:36:34 AM

Quote

To my mind when price becomes high, we have to pay low fee and when it becomes low, than fee has to be high. To my mind it had to be done like this from the begining.

What why? that's seems to be unfair also. I think increasing the transaction fees when the price is high is completely irrelevant no matter what the price bitcoin is the transaction fee should be always static.
What i mean bitcoin transaction fee should always be fixed. Especially when there is a delay in receiving payments because of the bitcoin scaling.

Why should it be completely fixed? There are no other attributes that Bitcoin has that are fixed beyond the hard coin cap, everything else is essentially very loose or up to the community to decide. If there are any other attributes that are fixed, then let me know because they're few and far between.
The market should determine how much it costs based entirely on the demand and supply. Bitcoin is a great free market system and there is little room for socialist or egalitarian policies.

Fixed fees or fixed amount , doesn't relay much in bitcoin. There's no such fix term correlate in bitcoin since its value is increasing or decreasing. Fees should be based on the service and how much the transaction would be ,a brackets to every amount that will going to payment and the percentage for the fee. Just links in pleural payment shops.

MingLee

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Quote from: Sadlife on May 12, 2017, 12:36:34 AM

Quote

To my mind when price becomes high, we have to pay low fee and when it becomes low, than fee has to be high. To my mind it had to be done like this from the begining.

What why? that's seems to be unfair also. I think increasing the transaction fees when the price is high is completely irrelevant no matter what the price bitcoin is the transaction fee should be always static.
What i mean bitcoin transaction fee should always be fixed. Especially when there is a delay in receiving payments because of the bitcoin scaling.

Why should it be completely fixed? There are no other attributes that Bitcoin has that are fixed beyond the hard coin cap, everything else is essentially very loose or up to the community to decide. If there are any other attributes that are fixed, then let me know because they're few and far between.
The market should determine how much it costs based entirely on the demand and supply. Bitcoin is a great free market system and there is little room for socialist or egalitarian policies.

FasTroy

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Quote from: ?? on ??

High fee is one of disadvantages of bitcoins in comparison with many of altcoins.
in many cases I use altcoins when my transaction amount is low and receiver apply that coin.

Using altcoins is very good idea. but when we talk about bitcoin transactions fees. I think it's normal when we see this high fees. All we know that bitcoin have an amazing price. So it's fair that miner fees increase with that. For me, i don't have any problem with that because i use xapo wallet. I don't pay fees.

1Referee

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Quote from: Nemo1024 on May 12, 2017, 03:52:13 PM

It's not a question of fair or unfair, but of Bitcoin design. Simply put, as the mining revenue from block discovery goes down (halvings) and the adoption grows, the other incentive for the miners to stay and process the transactions kicks in - fees.

Eventually speaking, you're right. But don't let yourself get blinded by how Bitcoin is set up, to even in the long run be beneficial for the miners. It's a piece of a cake for miners to create a fake form of block space scarcity by choking the network with rubbish transactions. Just think about it; what's the direct result of this? Right, it's people paying a higher fee in order to have their transaction included in the next few blocks.

gandame

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Quote from: shield132 on April 26, 2017, 02:58:00 AM

Everyone wanted higher bitcoin price and we achieved this but another problem become transaction fees. When bitcoin's price was low, we had to pay also low fee and now when it rised, we have to pay high fee in bitcoins and plus that high fee is more higher with current price. Is this fair? The higher the price, the more money miners have with bitcoin exchange.
To my mind when price becomes high, we have to pay low fee and when it becomes low, than fee has to be high. To my mind it had to be done like this from the begining.

I think just fee what is the gave u for transation fee in this world nothing you can see free. If you want bitcoin to continue for a time or years just pay what is the transaction fee. Because because they need to get fee for every transaction for mining fee and process it fast.

Nemo1024

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It's not a question of fair or unfair, but of Bitcoin design. Simply put, as the mining revenue from block discovery goes down (halvings) and the adoption grows, the other incentive for the miners to stay and process the transactions kicks in - fees.

jaberwock

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There is no such thing has fairness in the world, only things that decide are the market, the power(in all their forms, military, economic, influence, rhetoric, etc..) and the laws of reality.

Miners have the power to accept the transactions with whatever minimum fee they want and there is no way to accommodate infinite transactions

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Quote from: Sundark on May 12, 2017, 02:14:59 PM

Quote from: fullypak on May 12, 2017, 01:29:38 PM

This process is a little bit risky, and we can not save more money. The transaction fee is high for low amount transfer people. But it is a fair amount for high amount traders. The problem is the transaction fee is fixed that is the problem. It should be fixed by how much amount we can transfer means ok. But it is not like that for the small or big amount the fee is same that is the problem.

Bitcoin is not good micropayment solution, transaction fee is now more than $1 which completely eliminates reason behind every transaction lower than $1 worth of BTC
You simply do not sent $1 and pay 100% transaction fee. Bitcoin transaction fee is linked to the amount of data being send so as long as it is low it should be better option than standard percentage fee.

Great point, so people should start negotiating for the size of their transaction rather than the raw amount; that way they might be able to come to terms with the relatively low transaction fees compared to percentages being charged on fiat currency transactions.

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