Is bitcoin transaction fees fair? - page 62.

Wapinter

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Quote from: Amph on April 26, 2017, 03:04:40 AM

remember that are not the miners that make the fee, they could accept even the lowest fee if everyone was using the lowest one and reducing the average, it's up to the peple that decide what fee to use

if for example everyone start now to lower his fee the average would be like the old 10k satoshi per transaction, but instead everyone is rushing to have his/her transaction prioritized and this is increasing the average, miners have no fault here

Due to increasing difficulty,bitcoin mining has become a expensive affair.If there is no reward for miners which can not only cover mining cost but also give them good profit, noone will mine btc anymore.
No mining means death for bitcoin.

sotoshihero

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Quote from: mornabo on April 29, 2017, 06:41:31 PM

Quote from: FasTroy on April 29, 2017, 05:25:04 PM

Quote from: ethereumhunter on April 28, 2017, 11:54:12 AM

i am not sure for this because as far as i know, when i send the transaction amount, the fees is still in under than 0.001 and i think its only 0.0005 satoshi and for this amount, i can accepted. but i don't think that in future, the fees is not increase following with bitcoin price because the fee is for the miners too so i think its fair if the fees is increase too.

You are right, since mining will be very difficult over years. So it's too fair to increase little the amount of fees.
As you said, for now. 0.001 It's really a high amount for fees. Maybe people put this amount when they need their transactions comfirmed very fast.

I think most users will not want to spend such a fee? 0.001 btc is equivalent to $ 1.3.
Lol I think nobody wants to spend $ 1 for a single transaction. It is too expensive you know ?

That is quite exoensive but compared to other remittance services I think fair enough. Just send only a higher amount or let it accumulte first because if you have only .001 BTC then nothing left for you.

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Quote from: mornabo on April 29, 2017, 06:41:31 PM

Quote from: FasTroy on April 29, 2017, 05:25:04 PM

Quote from: ethereumhunter on April 28, 2017, 11:54:12 AM

i am not sure for this because as far as i know, when i send the transaction amount, the fees is still in under than 0.001 and i think its only 0.0005 satoshi and for this amount, i can accepted. but i don't think that in future, the fees is not increase following with bitcoin price because the fee is for the miners too so i think its fair if the fees is increase too.

You are right, since mining will be very difficult over years. So it's too fair to increase little the amount of fees.
As you said, for now. 0.001 It's really a high amount for fees. Maybe people put this amount when they need their transactions comfirmed very fast.

I think most users will not want to spend such a fee? 0.001 btc is equivalent to $ 1.3.
Lol I think nobody wants to spend $ 1 for a single transaction. It is too expensive you know ?

Yeah, that's just too expensive, so many people have repeatedly said that bitcoin is cheap but if a transaction takes about $1, it's ain't cheap anymore and bitcoin just lose its advantage and the reason of why using bitcoin.
The recent significant increase of fee is a clue on how fast the fee could increase by the time beings, I'm sure that in short amount of time, the fee will reach 0.001 BTC and many people will be struggling with the burden of having an expensive fee.

mornabo

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Quote from: FasTroy on April 29, 2017, 05:25:04 PM

Quote from: ethereumhunter on April 28, 2017, 11:54:12 AM

i am not sure for this because as far as i know, when i send the transaction amount, the fees is still in under than 0.001 and i think its only 0.0005 satoshi and for this amount, i can accepted. but i don't think that in future, the fees is not increase following with bitcoin price because the fee is for the miners too so i think its fair if the fees is increase too.

You are right, since mining will be very difficult over years. So it's too fair to increase little the amount of fees.
As you said, for now. 0.001 It's really a high amount for fees. Maybe people put this amount when they need their transactions comfirmed very fast.

I think most users will not want to spend such a fee? 0.001 btc is equivalent to $ 1.3.
Lol I think nobody wants to spend $ 1 for a single transaction. It is too expensive you know ?

JeffBrad12

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Quote from: FasTroy on April 29, 2017, 05:25:04 PM

Quote from: ethereumhunter on April 28, 2017, 11:54:12 AM

i am not sure for this because as far as i know, when i send the transaction amount, the fees is still in under than 0.001 and i think its only 0.0005 satoshi and for this amount, i can accepted. but i don't think that in future, the fees is not increase following with bitcoin price because the fee is for the miners too so i think its fair if the fees is increase too.

You are right, since mining will be very difficult over years. So it's too fair to increase little the amount of fees.
As you said, for now. 0.001 It's really a high amount for fees. Maybe people put this amount when they need their transactions comfirmed very fast.

The fees will slowly increase in the future since the rewards for the miners will be less everytime caused by the increased of mining difficulty. The miners just rely on the bitcoin transaction fees becoming his main income to keep his business still alive. Remember if the maximum block of bitcoin has reached and there is no more reward for the miners and this will make the transaction fees of bitcoin increase to give more income for the miners to securing the bitcoin network.
There is no cap can be determined as the high amount of the transaction fees.

uneng

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If I say it's not fair you will say: well, if it's not fair, don't use bitcoins. But that is it, I don't think it's going to be fair, as the fee is increasing a lot and even more. If you continue agreeing with this, the number of users won't increase.
Because persons will see they are wasting too much money with fees that could being used for more useful things, like buy more stuff or save more money.

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Quote from: ethereumhunter on April 28, 2017, 11:54:12 AM

i am not sure for this because as far as i know, when i send the transaction amount, the fees is still in under than 0.001 and i think its only 0.0005 satoshi and for this amount, i can accepted. but i don't think that in future, the fees is not increase following with bitcoin price because the fee is for the miners too so i think its fair if the fees is increase too.

You are right, since mining will be very difficult over years. So it's too fair to increase little the amount of fees.
As you said, for now. 0.001 It's really a high amount for fees. Maybe people put this amount when they need their transactions comfirmed very fast.

JanpriX

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The bitcoin transaction fees that we have right now seems fair to me. You are correct in saying that long time ago, our transactions can be confirmed in normal time even if we just pay low fees but it is very different now. People who are using bitcoin increased dramatically in the past years and many of them chose to pay the higher fees (to get prioritized) making low-fee transactions moved to the end of the queue. We, the users should plan our transactions first to make the best out of the fees that we are paying. For example, don't make low-amount transactions. You are just wasting satoshis for these low-amount transactions.

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Quote from: stompix on April 29, 2017, 10:53:21 AM

Quote from: avikz on April 29, 2017, 10:22:34 AM

Quote from: shield132 on April 26, 2017, 02:58:00 AM

Everyone wanted higher bitcoin price and we achieved this but another problem become transaction fees. When bitcoin's price was low, we had to pay also low fee and now when it rised, we have to pay high fee in bitcoins and plus that high fee is more higher with current price. Is this fair? The higher the price, the more money miners have with bitcoin exchange.
To my mind when price becomes high, we have to pay low fee and when it becomes low, than fee has to be high. To my mind it had to be done like this from the begining.

I believe the bitcoin transactions fees are fairly high and that's what is making people look for alternatives. Bitcoin initially started as a payment solution provider but ended up as an investment. So bitcoin looks good as an investment and especially for those whoa re saving bitcoin since long time.

But for newcomers in bitcoin, it is not very easy to digest the transaction fees and the investments are moving towards some worthy altcoins, which is not desirable to bitcoin investors like me. But I can't see any immediate solution for it so I believe we will have to live with it.

No it doesn't look good at all.
I've said it thousands times.

If bitcoin will not have a daily use and it will be regarded as a mere investment it will be dumped just as easy as an investment does. Maybe overnight.

While on the other hand, by having a daily use and a lot of people using it for their purchases money transfer you are sure that the userbase is growing and the possibility of it being dumped overnight is close to 0.

I know how far fetched the comparison is but remember how myspace got obliterated when it's userbase was gone.
What will investors seek in a coin that only exists for the bitstamp and coinbase ticker?

Everything hinges on what scaling solution the btc devs will do.

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Quote from: avikz on April 29, 2017, 10:22:34 AM

Quote from: shield132 on April 26, 2017, 02:58:00 AM

Everyone wanted higher bitcoin price and we achieved this but another problem become transaction fees. When bitcoin's price was low, we had to pay also low fee and now when it rised, we have to pay high fee in bitcoins and plus that high fee is more higher with current price. Is this fair? The higher the price, the more money miners have with bitcoin exchange.
To my mind when price becomes high, we have to pay low fee and when it becomes low, than fee has to be high. To my mind it had to be done like this from the begining.

I believe the bitcoin transactions fees are fairly high and that's what is making people look for alternatives. Bitcoin initially started as a payment solution provider but ended up as an investment. So bitcoin looks good as an investment and especially for those whoa re saving bitcoin since long time.

But for newcomers in bitcoin, it is not very easy to digest the transaction fees and the investments are moving towards some worthy altcoins, which is not desirable to bitcoin investors like me. But I can't see any immediate solution for it so I believe we will have to live with it.

No it doesn't look good at all.
I've said it thousands times.

If bitcoin will not have a daily use and it will be regarded as a mere investment it will be dumped just as easy as an investment does. Maybe overnight.

While on the other hand, by having a daily use and a lot of people using it for their purchases money transfer you are sure that the userbase is growing and the possibility of it being dumped overnight is close to 0.

I know how far fetched the comparison is but remember how myspace got obliterated when it's userbase was gone.
What will investors seek in a coin that only exists for the bitstamp and coinbase ticker?

avikz

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Quote from: shield132 on April 26, 2017, 02:58:00 AM

Everyone wanted higher bitcoin price and we achieved this but another problem become transaction fees. When bitcoin's price was low, we had to pay also low fee and now when it rised, we have to pay high fee in bitcoins and plus that high fee is more higher with current price. Is this fair? The higher the price, the more money miners have with bitcoin exchange.
To my mind when price becomes high, we have to pay low fee and when it becomes low, than fee has to be high. To my mind it had to be done like this from the begining.

I believe the bitcoin transactions fees are fairly high and that's what is making people look for alternatives. Bitcoin initially started as a payment solution provider but ended up as an investment. So bitcoin looks good as an investment and especially for those whoa re saving bitcoin since long time.

But for newcomers in bitcoin, it is not very easy to digest the transaction fees and the investments are moving towards some worthy altcoins, which is not desirable to bitcoin investors like me. But I can't see any immediate solution for it so I believe we will have to live with it.

victory1

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Current BTC transaction fee kill micropayments and gave this niche business to altcoins sadly.

cellard

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Quote from: darkangel11 on April 28, 2017, 01:13:57 PM

Quote from: cellard on April 28, 2017, 12:47:21 PM

It's stupid to send free transactions anymore, this is now 2010 unfortunately. So you have to pay the fee if you want priority to get your transaction validated as fast as possible, it is what it is.

Yes, blocksize increase will make it cheaper, but segwit makes it cheaper too. Hopefully we can eventually see both approaches.

That's true transactions with no fees are a bad idea, but i wanted to point out that not all transactions are getting confirmed.
I'd like to see SegWit activated, but it most likely won't happen, unless they find a way to change the required number of signaling nodes to 90% or even less. 95% will never happen, the community is too divided.

I've never had a problem sending transactions, the ONLY problems I ever had were during obvious spam atacks, but those are temporal because the idiots performing the attack eventually run out of money. So in normal situations, while slow, the coins never get stuck in the blockchain. I use bitcoin core's recommended fee and it never fails.

I wish to segwit eventually but right now I see 0 chances.

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Quote from: ePesoInitiative on April 28, 2017, 10:55:47 AM

The fee market is bullshit - He who pays higher gets to confirm first. LOL, the goal post (fees) will go higher and higher as everyone will try to outdo each other. Eventually as the high fees become unacceptable, especially when bitcoin price is soaring high, many will give up and look for alternative means of crypto transfers.

This is the same as the mining panic.
Once mining becomes unprofitable miners will quit and the difficulty will go down and mining will be profitable again.

Same with fees.
Fees become to high , people quit doing transactions, the fees will go down people will start doing them again.

Simple laws of economics.

Quote from: Sweetbtc on April 28, 2017, 12:15:13 PM

Currently BitCoin Blocks is taking longer then usual to be confirmed even with high fees. Please do not complain about unconfirmed transactions. BitCoin Block confirmation time is related to BitCoin network and it's miners. All unconfirmed transactions will be confirmed eventually. Visit website: https://chain.so/btc to observe the current situation of BitCoin network and how fast blocks are being confirmed.

And sometimes shit like this happens:
https://blockchain.info/en/tx/94ef2aa24970c229fb7582fb7ce64ea3e45962f8d334b118cfb499453d4a7ede

darkangel11

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Quote from: cellard on April 28, 2017, 12:47:21 PM

It's stupid to send free transactions anymore, this is now 2010 unfortunately. So you have to pay the fee if you want priority to get your transaction validated as fast as possible, it is what it is.

Yes, blocksize increase will make it cheaper, but segwit makes it cheaper too. Hopefully we can eventually see both approaches.

That's true transactions with no fees are a bad idea, but i wanted to point out that not all transactions are getting confirmed.
I'd like to see SegWit activated, but it most likely won't happen, unless they find a way to change the required number of signaling nodes to 90% or even less. 95% will never happen, the community is too divided.

cellard

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Quote from: darkangel11 on April 28, 2017, 12:43:52 PM

Quote from: Sweetbtc on April 28, 2017, 12:15:13 PM

Currently BitCoin Blocks is taking longer then usual to be confirmed even with high fees. Please do not complain about unconfirmed transactions. BitCoin Block confirmation time is related to BitCoin network and it's miners. All unconfirmed transactions will be confirmed eventually. Visit website: https://chain.so/btc to observe the current situation of BitCoin network and how fast blocks are being confirmed.

Do you know that some transactions with low fees are described as taking x number of hours up to infinity? There's no guarantee that all transactions will get confirmed.
I had a transaction that was stuck for 3 days and this was a transaction with a fee, imagine what can happen to a transaction sent without one.

It's stupid to send free transactions anymore, this is now 2010 unfortunately. So you have to pay the fee if you want priority to get your transaction validated as fast as possible, it is what it is.

Yes, blocksize increase will make it cheaper, but segwit makes it cheaper too. Hopefully we can eventually see both approaches.

darkangel11

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Quote from: Sweetbtc on April 28, 2017, 12:15:13 PM

Currently BitCoin Blocks is taking longer then usual to be confirmed even with high fees. Please do not complain about unconfirmed transactions. BitCoin Block confirmation time is related to BitCoin network and it's miners. All unconfirmed transactions will be confirmed eventually. Visit website: https://chain.so/btc to observe the current situation of BitCoin network and how fast blocks are being confirmed.

Do you know that some transactions with low fees are described as taking x number of hours up to infinity? There's no guarantee that all transactions will get confirmed.
I had a transaction that was stuck for 3 days and this was a transaction with a fee, imagine what can happen to a transaction sent without one.

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Currently BitCoin Blocks is taking longer then usual to be confirmed even with high fees. Please do not complain about unconfirmed transactions. BitCoin Block confirmation time is related to BitCoin network and it's miners. All unconfirmed transactions will be confirmed eventually. Visit website: https://chain.so/btc to observe the current situation of BitCoin network and how fast blocks are being confirmed.

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Quote from: shield132 on April 26, 2017, 02:58:00 AM

Everyone wanted higher bitcoin price and we achieved this but another problem become transaction fees. When bitcoin's price was low, we had to pay also low fee and now when it rised, we have to pay high fee in bitcoins and plus that high fee is more higher with current price. Is this fair? The higher the price, the more money miners have with bitcoin exchange.
To my mind when price becomes high, we have to pay low fee and when it becomes low, than fee has to be high. To my mind it had to be done like this from the begining.

In all sincerity, I will have to lend my voice that its not far no matter how we choose to look at it. Before I had always maintained that the increase is justified based on the increase in the price of bitcoin that we have witnessed but its not just comparable as the price of bitcoin has not increased in the same rate the transaction price has equally increased. Its so surprising that what I transfer with less that 0.50$ when price was even $900 I now have to pay several dollars for same transfer. That is not fair in all ways.

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i am not sure for this because as far as i know, when i send the transaction amount, the fees is still in under than 0.001 and i think its only 0.0005 satoshi and for this amount, i can accepted. but i don't think that in future, the fees is not increase following with bitcoin price because the fee is for the miners too so i think its fair if the fees is increase too.

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