Is bitcoin transaction fees fair? - page 61.

franky1

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Quote from: Quantus on April 30, 2017, 09:27:49 AM

25Cents at this time is fair in the future if the community does not grow it may need to go up to 50cents or more but thats the cost of having a inflation free currency.

fair for the well banked first world countries where 25cents = 2 minutes minimum wage labour
unfair for the unbanked third world countries where 25cents = hours minimum wage labour

so lets word it this way..
because many cannot get out of the mindset of "americanisation"

bitcoin is "americanisation" $37.5
now would you use it if it cost you 5 hours labour to use it..

please dont worry about the value.. just think of the context.
"would you use it if it cost you 5 hours labour to use it.."

RamBahadur.Gurung

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Activity: 457

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I paid BTC0.0001 for my first transaction, which is equivalent to $0.13 at the current exchange rates. If I was using Paypal, then I would have paid at least $2 for the same amount. So I think that the fees is fair.

Raven91

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Not fair and I also there are transaction fee that is 0.33 dollars that is so much for a small amount of bitcoin your going to send online and that is not unfair for an a 3-6hours of waiting for your transaction to confirmed.

dothebeats

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Fair? The term is quite subjective, however if you're pertaining to moving a million dollars over for a cost of a dollar then why the hell not? Besides, receiving bitcoin wouldn't even require you to confirm your identity as long as the sender sends the btc to the correct address. No invasive identification required, just send the money, pay the fees and you're good to go. However as for micro-transactions, I couldn't really tell if it's worth it but you can always opt for the amount that you want to pay for fees.

jakelyson

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Quote from: Meowth05 on April 30, 2017, 09:18:23 AM

I gues it's fair enough even sometime it take almost 3hours but somtimes it take just not even an hour it just has a fee of a cent so i think that fair enough for a transaction of bitcoin local and abroad.

When was the last time you sent bitcoin? If you just use a cent for a single transaction, even if it only have one input, it will take you forever to get confirmed.

Because bitcoin is not scaling, the fee gets too high for normal users. And it is not very desirable to attract new users as well as retain old users.

johnwest

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Quote from: 27QVUTZj8rgZP1 on April 30, 2017, 09:29:13 AM

I believe it will get worse over time, especially when halving... Bitcoin price might not get as high and the fee race will just get worse, with people paying more and more.

I never thought about it, but Bitcoin could die because of it in next 4 or 8 years, and people would elect another cryptocurrency to take its place.

And then that new elected coin dies, then another take its place... And it goes on in this loop.

I believe it can happen, especially if nothing relevant is done on source code side. The lifespan of a cryptocoin could be shortened if a solution isn't found in appropriate time.

My thought exactly, the fees is not fine even now also. Most of the users turned towards cryptocurrencies or BTC to yield more profit and to increase the value of what we got. I am just afraid, one day BTC may become like Paypal and i will have to hate it like I hate Paypal for its fees.

27QVUTZj8rgZP1

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I believe it will get worse over time, especially when halving... Bitcoin price might not get as high and the fee race will just get worse, with people paying more and more.

I never thought about it, but Bitcoin could die because of it in next 4 or 8 years, and people would elect another cryptocurrency to take its place.

And then that new elected coin dies, then another take its place... And it goes on in this loop.

I believe it can happen, especially if nothing relevant is done on source code side. The lifespan of a cryptocoin could be shortened if a solution isn't found in appropriate time.

Quantus

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25Cents at this time is fair in the future if the community does not grow it may need to go up to 50cents or more but thats the cost of having a inflation free currency.

Harry Callahan

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Quote from: Meowth05 on April 30, 2017, 09:18:23 AM

I gues it's fair enough even sometime it take almost 3hours but somtimes it take just not even an hour it just has a fee of a cent so i think that fair enough for a transaction of bitcoin local and abroad.

What are you talking about,the price of bitcoin now sits at an all time high and the average transaction time has risen as well and the fees is going up with it which is not fair,the best transaction fees now sits at around one dollar per transaction which is not fair at all if you compare with the rest of the coins and even with that transaction fee you need to wait around 45 minutes to get one confirmation .I really like to see a complete change in these regards.

Meowth05

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I gues it's fair enough even sometime it take almost 3hours but somtimes it take just not even an hour it just has a fee of a cent so i think that fair enough for a transaction of bitcoin local and abroad.

qiwoman2

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Well they are getting more and more expensive but Bitcoin is still going to be widely used. I think though as other altcoins emerge and rise, for minor transactions people will want to switch to other cheaper alternatives.

Ravion

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The transaction fees have risen quite a lot because Bitcoin is getting used by more and more people and businesses, and mining is getting more and more expensive for the miners. The fees are still less than most other types of payment methods though.

One of the main reasons for the rise in fees is the large number of very small transactions that are taking place. Another reason is that miners usually join groups where profits are shared. And they don't know how many more miners are going to join the particular group that they're in, and how this will affect their profit percentages. So, they're demanding higher fees to protect their investment.

webtricks

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I guess there is a need to end competition in fees or we can better say there is a need to end fair play in case of fees determination of Bitcoin. Dogecoin is good example, we need to send just 1 Doge as fees for any amount of transaction. Similar system is needed to implement in bitcoin and fees should fix at affordable point.

stompix

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Quote from: Reid on April 30, 2017, 07:38:42 AM

What? Transaction fees will be larger than the block reward? That is kind of an insane number.
No one will support or use bitcoin anymore with that kind of number.
We know bitcoin is getting more expensive and who would want to make a transaction which is even more expensive than how much you will send.
They will be looking for another option if that happens.

Of course they will be. That is how bitcoin was designed , lol. Are your seriously surprised hearing that?
The block reward will constantly be halved it was 25 not so long ago it is 12.5 and it will go to 6 and so on.

With no changes in the block structure by the next halving fees will be higher than the reward....I think..I assume

Quote from: jtipt on April 30, 2017, 07:50:37 AM

I think you make a valid point here if everyone decides to use a lower fees then miners have no choice but to accept it, but the problem is as the difficulty of mining increases miners require more hash power and ultimately more money and also after halving they get half the bitcoin that they used to get. So if they are getting low fees low reward and mining cost us high then why would anyone want to mine anymore.

Oh , but they can...Don't you underestimate greed.

They could just stop accepting low fee transactions by not including them in the blocks.

jtipt

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Quote from: Amph on April 26, 2017, 03:04:40 AM

remember that are not the miners that make the fee, they could accept even the lowest fee if everyone was using the lowest one and reducing the average, it's up to the peple that decide what fee to use

if for example everyone start now to lower his fee the average would be like the old 10k satoshi per transaction, but instead everyone is rushing to have his/her transaction prioritized and this is increasing the average, miners have no fault here

I think you make a valid point here if everyone decides to use a lower fees then miners have no choice but to accept it, but the problem is as the difficulty of mining increases miners require more hash power and ultimately more money and also after halving they get half the bitcoin that they used to get. So if they are getting low fees low reward and mining cost us high then why would anyone want to mine anymore.

Reid

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Quote from: stompix on April 30, 2017, 07:16:11 AM

Quote from: Amph on April 30, 2017, 12:29:07 AM

Quote from: Wapinter on April 29, 2017, 07:49:24 PM

Quote from: Amph on April 26, 2017, 03:04:40 AM

remember that are not the miners that make the fee, they could accept even the lowest fee if everyone was using the lowest one and reducing the average, it's up to the peple that decide what fee to use

if for example everyone start now to lower his fee the average would be like the old 10k satoshi per transaction, but instead everyone is rushing to have his/her transaction prioritized and this is increasing the average, miners have no fault here

Due to increasing difficulty,bitcoin mining has become a expensive affair.If there is no reward for miners which can not only cover mining cost but also give them good profit, noone will mine btc anymore.
No mining means death for bitcoin.

mienrs have plenty of profit with the current reward and value of each coins, they don't need any fee actually that is a premium for them now, but since they are greedy they alwaays want more

just do the math for yourself, there are 1800 coins mined each day, this is $2M in revenue, the cost of electricity is around 1/4 $500k per day, plenty of room for profit

Juts taking a look at the last blocks.
Fees are creeping up close to 10% of the block reward.
If the situation goes and we have no change in block size/ln or anything else by the next halving the transactions fees will be larger than the block reward.

And if miners are really greedy they might do some nasty moves like not accepting transactions with fees below x, a real ~~banking~~ bitcoin cartel from a to z.

What? Transaction fees will be larger than the block reward? That is kind of an insane number.
No one will support or use bitcoin anymore with that kind of number.
We know bitcoin is getting more expensive and who would want to make a transaction which is even more expensive than how much you will send.
They will be looking for another option if that happens.

stompix

legendary

Activity: 2912

Merit: 6403

Blackjack.fun

Quote from: Amph on April 30, 2017, 12:29:07 AM

Quote from: Wapinter on April 29, 2017, 07:49:24 PM

Quote from: Amph on April 26, 2017, 03:04:40 AM

remember that are not the miners that make the fee, they could accept even the lowest fee if everyone was using the lowest one and reducing the average, it's up to the peple that decide what fee to use

if for example everyone start now to lower his fee the average would be like the old 10k satoshi per transaction, but instead everyone is rushing to have his/her transaction prioritized and this is increasing the average, miners have no fault here

Due to increasing difficulty,bitcoin mining has become a expensive affair.If there is no reward for miners which can not only cover mining cost but also give them good profit, noone will mine btc anymore.
No mining means death for bitcoin.

mienrs have plenty of profit with the current reward and value of each coins, they don't need any fee actually that is a premium for them now, but since they are greedy they alwaays want more

just do the math for yourself, there are 1800 coins mined each day, this is $2M in revenue, the cost of electricity is around 1/4 $500k per day, plenty of room for profit

Juts taking a look at the last blocks.
Fees are creeping up close to 10% of the block reward.
If the situation goes and we have no change in block size/ln or anything else by the next halving the transactions fees will be larger than the block reward.

And if miners are really greedy they might do some nasty moves like not accepting transactions with fees below x, a real ~~banking~~ bitcoin cartel from a to z.

DoublerHunter

hero member

Activity: 2590

Merit: 644

Quote from: Amph on April 30, 2017, 12:29:07 AM

Quote from: Wapinter on April 29, 2017, 07:49:24 PM

Quote from: Amph on April 26, 2017, 03:04:40 AM

remember that are not the miners that make the fee, they could accept even the lowest fee if everyone was using the lowest one and reducing the average, it's up to the peple that decide what fee to use

if for example everyone start now to lower his fee the average would be like the old 10k satoshi per transaction, but instead everyone is rushing to have his/her transaction prioritized and this is increasing the average, miners have no fault here

Due to increasing difficulty,bitcoin mining has become a expensive affair.If there is no reward for miners which can not only cover mining cost but also give them good profit, noone will mine btc anymore.
No mining means death for bitcoin.

mienrs have plenty of profit with the current reward and value of each coins, they don't need any fee actually that is a premium for them now, but since they are greedy they alwaays want more

just do the math for yourself, there are 1800 coins mined each day, this is $2M in revenue, the cost of electricity is around 1/4 $500k per day, plenty of room for profit

Fees are required by the miners to be able to make more profit, because their profit from mining is not enough for them because they need for maintenance and also the monthly expenses like electricity and the internet which is also expensive so it is just fair for me to have fees for bitcoin when doing transactions.

Amph

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Quote from: Wapinter on April 29, 2017, 07:49:24 PM

Quote from: Amph on April 26, 2017, 03:04:40 AM

remember that are not the miners that make the fee, they could accept even the lowest fee if everyone was using the lowest one and reducing the average, it's up to the peple that decide what fee to use

if for example everyone start now to lower his fee the average would be like the old 10k satoshi per transaction, but instead everyone is rushing to have his/her transaction prioritized and this is increasing the average, miners have no fault here

Due to increasing difficulty,bitcoin mining has become a expensive affair.If there is no reward for miners which can not only cover mining cost but also give them good profit, noone will mine btc anymore.
No mining means death for bitcoin.

mienrs have plenty of profit with the current reward and value of each coins, they don't need any fee actually that is a premium for them now, but since they are greedy they alwaays want more

just do the math for yourself, there are 1800 coins mined each day, this is $2M in revenue, the cost of electricity is around 1/4 $500k per day, plenty of room for profit

Cold-Heart

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Quote from: shield132 on April 26, 2017, 02:58:00 AM

Everyone wanted higher bitcoin price and we achieved this but another problem become transaction fees. When bitcoin's price was low, we had to pay also low fee and now when it rised, we have to pay high fee in bitcoins and plus that high fee is more higher with current price. Is this fair? The higher the price, the more money miners have with bitcoin exchange.
To my mind when price becomes high, we have to pay low fee and when it becomes low, than fee has to be high. To my mind it had to be done like this from the begining.

I guess it is somehow fair.. cause the thing is, we all have taxes and stuff but rather than working in full time effort, we usually mine or invest.. it makes things more easier i guess.. but in other words.. it makes us decide things correctly by thinking if its worth a shot.. and not just accepting what comes and go.. Cheesy

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