Is Bitcointalk.org losing user base? - page 2.

fillippone

legendary

Activity: 2380

Merit: 17063

Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23

Quote from: Pmalek on August 16, 2021, 08:16:08 AM

Quote from: anotherdayyyy on August 16, 2021, 03:55:17 AM

I have heard lots of good things about TryNinja's and LoyceV's bots. I personally use LoyceV's. The only reason I opted for that one is because I don't feel like using Telegram. TryNinja's bot (just like most other alternatives) sends notifications over Telegram.

Having a notification system is another feature that the forum needs to change and improve with the release of the new forum software. Such solutions should be made in-house I think.

On the other hand, using @tryninja bot could lead you to the infamous "hairy wrist gallery":

#meritislife: how to be notified on a smartband of merits and mentions

We are open for new members!

anotherdayyyy

jr. member

Activity: 62

Merit: 8

Quote from: KingsDen on August 16, 2021, 05:02:12 AM

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Thank you, KingsDen and LoyceV, I appreciate you help. having stayed in this forum for almost one year but just got to know how to check responses quickly.

Quote from: Pmalek on August 16, 2021, 08:16:08 AM

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I'll take your advice and use LoyceV's.

Quote from: Upgrade00 on August 16, 2021, 08:48:49 AM

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sure, my friend is a little utilitarian, vain and ambitious. She loves Bitcoin and the cryptocurrency field. sometimes she deems her posts profound and helpful but gets no merit, I know she had thought about the topic seriously...maybe that upset her. She said she felt ignored and her voice wasn't heard. personally, her work really preoccupied her and stripped her of the time spent in here. As far as I know, she's still skimming this forum nearly every week, the best place to get a glimpse of what is happening in crypto world!

actmyname

copper member

Activity: 2562

Merit: 2510

Spear the bees

Quote from: Pmalek on August 16, 2021, 08:16:08 AM

Such solutions should be made in-house I think.

Searching "quote [name]" works perfectly fine as a forum alternative.

Is it better? No.

Upgrade00

legendary

Activity: 2254

Merit: 2406

Playgram - The Telegram Casino

Quote from: anotherdayyyy on August 16, 2021, 03:55:17 AM

one of my friends quit because she envied others for their merit coz she had zero. Though I do think her words really don't deserve merit, her confidence wasn't satisfied anyway.

With such mindset, it's little wonder she found it difficult to get merits. Merits are of little value besides forum rank, a lot of members got airdropped lots of merit during the merit launch but have very little knowledge about the forum or Bitcoin.

Quote from: Arvin01 on August 16, 2021, 02:56:49 AM

The merit mechanism is to encourage everyone to communicate more and express their inner thoughts. No matter if your idea is right or wrong, if you express your opinion and are useful to others, others will give you merit.

Merits were implemented to ensure only those contributing quality content rank up, thereby discouraging spam content all over the forum, it was later followed by the newbie restriction, which was implemented for the same purpose.

Pmalek

legendary

Activity: 2730

Merit: 7065

Quote from: anotherdayyyy on August 16, 2021, 03:55:17 AM

I have heard lots of good things about TryNinja's and LoyceV's bots. I personally use LoyceV's. The only reason I opted for that one is because I don't feel like using Telegram. TryNinja's bot (just like most other alternatives) sends notifications over Telegram.

Having a notification system is another feature that the forum needs to change and improve with the release of the new forum software. Such solutions should be made in-house I think.

KingsDen

legendary

Activity: 1316

Merit: 1089

Goodnight, o_e_l_e_o 🌹

Quote from: anotherdayyyy on August 16, 2021, 03:55:17 AM

I have a question, that is, when I replied to a post, then if someone quoted my message, how could I know it without checking the original thread? I've been bothered by the question for some time and it makes me feel kind of lonely here since I cannot feel others' feedback on my words except by merits or deleted notice.

When you login, at the left top corner, there are three options; Show unread posts since last visit, Show new replies to your post and Watchlist.
.
These three options will help you, while the second option notifies you when there is a reply on the thread you are following; the watch list allows you to customise how you see them. I had same issue when I was a newbie, but these options solved it for me. However, some users also subscribe to telegram notification bot for same purpose.

Quote from: anotherdayyyy on August 16, 2021, 03:55:17 AM

one of my friends quit because she envied others for their merit coz she had zero. Though I do think her words really don't deserve merit, her confidence wasn't satisfied anyway.

If her purpose of coming to the forum is to be merited, she is right to leave since she was not recieveing them.
There was actually when I was making posts to gain merits, if such posts didn't get merited, I became less human to myself. But after I took my time to read threads and understand the purpose of the forum, I automatically changed my own purpose. Then, merits started coming naturally, even on some posts I least expected them. Advice her to return, if getting merits is her problems, she should not coward-away, she should return and face her problems by learning, then earning (merits).

LoyceV

legendary

Activity: 3290

Merit: 16489

Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021

Quote from: anotherdayyyy on August 16, 2021, 03:55:17 AM

if someone quoted my message, how could I know it without checking the original thread?

If you don't want to use the Watchlist, you can choose from 2 external services:
[TELEGRAM] Yet Another BitcoinTalk Notification BOT (merits, mentions, topics,+)
[new topic] LoyceV's notification bot

anotherdayyyy

jr. member

Activity: 62

Merit: 8

I have a question, that is, when I replied to a post, then if someone quoted my message, how could I know it without checking the original thread? I've been bothered by the question for some time and it makes me feel kind of lonely here since I cannot feel others' feedback on my words except by merits or deleted notice.
one of my friends quit because she envied others for their merit coz she had zero. Though I do think her words really don't deserve merit, her confidence wasn't satisfied anyway.

Arvin01

member

Activity: 60

Merit: 13

The merit mechanism is to encourage everyone to communicate more and express their inner thoughts. No matter if your idea is right or wrong, if you express your opinion and are useful to others, others will give you merit.
In this forum, you have to have the courage to express your thoughts. Maybe what you are talking about is the answer that others are looking for.
Have some tolerance for others. Why are there fewer newcomers in the forum because the forum is not popular? No, newcomers will be severely criticized for saying wrong ideas. We can't make everyone think the same. So be tolerant.
The advantage of forums better than other software is that you can really learn some knowledge. There will not be many ads, scams.
I like to learn on the forum, I can relax and immerse myself in the forum.

DdmrDdmr

legendary

Activity: 2338

Merit: 10802

There are lies, damned lies and statistics. MTwain

Quote from: _BlackStar on August 15, 2021, 05:47:51 AM

<…> If I belong to one of the 236 profiles you mentioned <…>.

Nope. One of the criteria I used was having generated over (or equal to) 10 sMerits.

I figure that some people are really not that interested in the Merit System, which is understandable, and therefore barely award sMerits. That doesn’t mean that their posts are not merit worthy providing the content is good enough. After all, the idea is to merit the post based on its content (although the poster himself may also influence the outcome).

Both positions are probably fine though (taking into account whether the merited-to-be merits others or hoards). Sometimes the amount of available sMerits may bring in other factors into consideration when meriting, and the one being discussed is one of them. Others may take into consideration rank, personal likes/grudges, affinity, and so forth. These lateral criteria, which surpass the post’s content itself, are part of each one’s subjectivity, and diversity in criteria is what’s to be expected.

_BlackStar

legendary

Activity: 1064

Merit: 1228

Playgram - The Telegram Casino

Quote from: DdmrDdmr on August 15, 2021, 04:25:38 AM

236 of those profiles have never sent any sMerits.

If I belong to one of the 236 profiles you mentioned then right in this thread I just spent 4 sMerits for 4 different users including you and it's because of the posts I think they deserve.

Based on some opinion posts I've read, none of the users have said that hoarding sMerit is good and I can also clearly read when trying to send sMerit that "There is no point in hoarding sMerit; keeping it yourself does not benefit you, and we reserve the right to decay unused sMerit in the future.". Supposedly when users get merit, they should also issue it on other users' posts that they think are worthy. I don't think it's too difficult to find a suitable post, but due to differences in perception and knowledge between users, it is still possible for the desired quality standard to be different.

Daniel91

legendary

Activity: 3374

Merit: 1824

Quote from: DdmrDdmr on August 15, 2021, 04:25:38 AM

I tend to award merits regardless of their meriting habits/hoarding. I know a case or two on my local board that have a ratio of sent/generated below 10%, having received over 100 merits, but I prefer to merit their posts if they are worthy, even if it is just to mark something that might be interesting for others to read.

Some minor stats on the matter:

In general, there are 316 profiles that currently (as of last Friday) have:
-   Generated over 10 sMerits
-   Have been active or semi-active (logged-in over the past 90 days – that excludes Satoshi, Hal, etc.)
-   Have a ratio of sent/generated <= 10%

On aggregate, those 316 profiles have generated 10.470 sMerits (besides whatever airdropped amount they had), and given out only 234 sMerits.

236 of those profiles have never sent any sMerits.

There top cases have generated over 500 sMerits, and sent under 40 sMerits each.

Very interesting statistics, I wasn't aware of it.
I guess some members just don't have the habit of using the merits on this forum, which is a shame because it's the perfect tool to show some forum member an appreciation for the quality of the post he wrote.
In this way, new members are further motivated to work harder and write better.
Nevertheless, no one can of course be forced to use all the functionalities of this forum.
On the Croatian part of the forum until recently we had a problem that we had a limited number of available merits for quality local posts, which has now finally changed after the promotion of new merit sources.
I also give the merits for quality posts, which contribute to the forum.

DdmrDdmr

legendary

Activity: 2338

Merit: 10802

There are lies, damned lies and statistics. MTwain

I tend to award merits regardless of their meriting habits/hoarding. I know a case or two on my local board that have a ratio of sent/generated below 10%, having received over 100 merits, but I prefer to merit their posts if they are worthy, even if it is just to mark something that might be interesting for others to read.

Some minor stats on the matter:

In general, there are 316 profiles that currently (as of last Friday) have:
-   Generated over (or equal to) 10 sMerits
-   Have been active or semi-active (logged-in over the past 90 days – that excludes Satoshi, Hal, etc.)
-   Have a ratio of sent/generated <= 10%

On aggregate, those 316 profiles have generated 10.470 sMerits (besides whatever airdropped amount they had), and given out only 234 sMerits.

236 of those profiles have never sent any sMerits.

There top cases have generated over 500 sMerits, and sent under 40 sMerits each.

Pmalek

legendary

Activity: 2730

Merit: 7065

Quote from: KingsDen on August 14, 2021, 07:18:26 PM

2. The law of saturation: If a user keeps receiving merits without giving out, there should be a limit to which he/she will no longer recieve merits unless he begins to give out. If this law is applied by Theymos, the talk of merit hoarding will be a past.

I don't believe theymos will make any significant changes to the merit system. Limiting someone on how much they can receive would be a drastic measure in my opinion. Instead, the community can do their part just like they do with scammers or account sellers. There are no rules that forces users to award posts with merits, but there are also no rules to selling Bitcointalk accounts or scamming someone and we know what happens with those people and their accounts if they are discovered. The sanction for those who don't send sMerits could be simple. You aren't going to get any because it's a waste of sMerits giving it to you when all you do is keep them for yourself.

Quote from: KingsDen on August 14, 2021, 07:18:26 PM

You know humans are good at predicting the unpredictable. Maybe the hoarder might be thinking that in the future, the merits might not be what it is today, maybe it can turn to something like a token that will have monetary value, hence the essence of hoarding Grin

That's just another reason not to award them with more if you ask me.

KingsDen

legendary

Activity: 1316

Merit: 1089

Goodnight, o_e_l_e_o 🌹

Quote from: LoyceV on August 13, 2021, 11:31:32 AM

If a user doesn't send sMerit, that doesn't stop me from Meriting them when it's deserved. Hoarding still beats sending it to the wrong posts.

Imo, hoarding merits is not a good practice and will not promote the healthiness of the forum. Merit hoarding defeats two laws;
1. The natural law of giving: This law believes that "a giver never lacks", he that gives should recieve, vice versa.
2. The law of saturation: If a user keeps receiving merits without giving out, there should be a limit to which he/she will no longer recieve merits unless he begins to give out. If this law is applied by Theymos, the talk of merit hoarding will be a past.

Quote from: Pmalek on August 13, 2021, 08:46:00 AM

I found a merit-worthy post a few hours ago. I did my usual check to see if that member gives out merits, and I discovered that he has received over 80 merits, but he hasn't sent a single one! I didn't give him anything after that.

You know humans are good at predicting the unpredictable. Maybe the hoarder might be thinking that in the future, the merits might not be what it is today, maybe it can turn to something like a token that will have monetary value, hence the essence of hoarding Grin

However, the practice of merit hoarding is a form of merit abuse which can result to misuse of merit in the future (merit selling, meriting alts).
So, it should be frowned at especially when a non merit source does it.

Pmalek

legendary

Activity: 2730

Merit: 7065

Quote from: LoyceV on August 13, 2021, 11:31:32 AM

And here I am, hoarding more than 1000 sMerit Shocked

You know very well that's not the same thing Grin

You have more than 1000 sMerits because you are a merit source and your monthly allocation is probably a few hundreds source merits. It takes you a long time to empty that bag and get to your personal sMerits. That's because you have so much, not because you aren't giving it out regularly. You are also the most merited member on the forum, which keeps the stash always high. Not to mention the fact that you are part human and part alien tech posting miracle. Shocked

Quote from: LoyceV on August 13, 2021, 11:31:32 AM

Merit can be as limited or abundant as theymos wants.

True, but unless things change, we are stuck to having to receive 2 merits to be able to have 1 sMerit to give out. Everyone should chip in to keep the engine rolling.

LoyceV

legendary

Activity: 3290

Merit: 16489

Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021

Quote from: Pmalek on August 13, 2021, 08:46:00 AM

I still come across members who insist on hoarding and not distributing merits to others. I found a merit-worthy post a few hours ago. I did my usual check to see if that member gives out merits, and I discovered that he has received over 80 merits, but he hasn't sent a single one! I didn't give him anything after that.

And here I am, hoarding more than 1000 sMerit Shocked

If a user doesn't send sMerit, that doesn't stop me from Meriting them when it's deserved. Hoarding still beats sending it to the wrong posts.

Quote

let's compare the forum to an island with limited resources.

Merit can be as limited or abundant as theymos wants.

Pmalek

legendary

Activity: 2730

Merit: 7065

Quote from: skarais on August 11, 2021, 04:51:43 AM

but what matters most is that more users are involved in the merit distribution cycle.

And even more users should get involved. I still come across members who insist on hoarding and not distributing merits to others. I found a merit-worthy post a few hours ago. I did my usual check to see if that member gives out merits, and I discovered that he has received over 80 merits, but he hasn't sent a single one! I didn't give him anything after that.

I suggested recently that we could remind those who don't give out merits that the system wasn't created for people to only be on the receiving end. If other users stopped giving merits to such users, I am sure some of them would change their behavior. What I am suggesting might be controversial, but let's compare the forum to an island with limited resources. Every time someone says or does something the community likes, the other inhabitants award that person with a piece of that limited resource. The only problem is that two inhabitants keep getting their share of the rewards, but they never give anyone else the same even if they could. The resource becomes rarer and rarer while two pricks keep bags of it in their cellar. Do you think the community should keep rewarding them even if their contributions deserve it if the resource will never again enter the economy? I would say no.

Welsh

staff

Activity: 3304

Merit: 4115

Quote from: Findingnemo on August 12, 2021, 03:56:03 AM

Recently we can witness more and more newbies are entering the forum and trying to bring some contribution in the race if merit earning which is good to some extent because they are trying to bring something new but surely there is a drop in the real discussion lately especially after the people who can't run with the merit system, probably most of them were account farmers.

Loss of quantity that is replaced by quality isn't a bad thing in my opinion. Users come, and go, but we all stick around for the discussions. I would prefer to have less quality discussions, than having the place drowned out because of the abundance of poor quality discussions. At the moment, I think the forum is somewhat in between that metric, since there's definitely discussions here which aren't particularly of good quality.

Quote from: skarais on August 11, 2021, 04:51:43 AM

I'm not really sure if the user base is growing any further because of this increase, but what matters most is that more users are involved in the merit distribution cycle. The user base may be able to grow given the rise in bitcoin's price so far could have an impact on it.

While you might not see immediate effects, I do believe it's quite clear that the easier it is for users to rank up, and progress the more likely they'll stick around. Ignoring the account farmers which have an incentive to rank up, ranking up is progression, and as we know progression is a motivating factor, so if merit distribution increases, so will the likelihood of users sticking around.

Findingnemo

hero member

Activity: 2366

Merit: 793

Bitcoin = Financial freedom

Quote from: skarais on August 11, 2021, 04:51:43 AM

Intrigued by the number of merit distribution since several merit source were added, I took the time to make a little comparison from January to July 2021. Here's the graph.

Based on the data I obtained from the Merit Dashboard, it can be seen that since the addition of merit sources and merit bank, the distribution of merit throughout July has increased by almost 100% compared to June. Of course this is quite good even though the percentage increase in senders is still below 16%. I'm not really sure if the user base is growing any further because of this increase, but what matters most is that more users are involved in the merit distribution cycle. The user base may be able to grow given the rise in bitcoin's price so far could have an impact on it.

Recently we can witness more and more newbies are entering the forum and trying to bring some contribution in the race if merit earning which is good to some extent because they are trying to bring something new but surely there is a drop in the real discussion lately especially after the people who can't run with the merit system, probably most of them were account farmers.

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