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Topic: Is doubling your investment more probable than we think? - page 6. (Read 1299 times)

hero member
Activity: 1554
Merit: 762
Many miners will start earning half as fewer after the halving occurs, and miners mining with the same machines will have earned half as fewer BTC since the event took place. For this reason, many miners will choose to shut down their mining machines completely due to a significant drop in earnings.
The risky part will be the decisions to be taken by large mining companies that calculate this process in advance. Especially in the period before and after the halving event, many miners may choose to sell the BTC they hold in order to cover the costs. This could trigger a serious selling pressure in the market. I think that the market will bottom in March, which is closest to the halving, miners will collect BTC with whales while the market is at the bottom to cover their increased costs, and after making the market unbearable for a while, the market will rocket in November 2024 as we approach 2025. We should prepare our investment for every situation and doubling the amount in our pockets may be later than we think. All this is not investment advice and you should make your own decisions in the market.
sr. member
Activity: 924
Merit: 365

I know that these are all pure assumptions, but instead of speculating massive ATH and 3x or 4x returns, which are way too common in the forum, why not expect something that is more probable to happen in the near future? And to be honest, doubling your investment is a great yield that cannot easily be found in other forms of investment.
It is quite clear that we don't know what the price of bitcoin will be by next year, but that won't make me have a moderate price tag to sell my bitcoin assets at $50k, even when I know that after months of the halving season, Bitcoin tends to give a new ATH.  

To tell you the truth, many crypto investors would like to aim for more than double the profits of their bitcoin investment. At least many will be looking at a profit of 3x or 4x of their bitcoin investment, depending on the market condition of crypto.
hero member
Activity: 2968
Merit: 687
With halving less than a year from now, the majority of us are speculating a major increase in price and possibly the start of another bull market after 4 years. Some are expecting to surpass the previous ATH of almost $70,000 and possibly reach $100,000. Although this scenario sounds great and all, I'm not quite confident that it'll happen in the upcoming year or so. The current economic condition in the world isn't too promising and, in my opinion, will set back investments in general, including bonds and the stock market. I hope I'm proven wrong, though.

However, I tend to have a more pessimistic and down-to-earth approach to this matter. Bitcoin's current price is ranging from $27,000 to $28,000 as we speak, while we will also occasionally see it as low as $25,000. With that being said, in my opinion, sometime after the halving, the scenario of Bitcoin surpassing $50,000 doesn't sound too impossible to me. Thus, if we suppose that someone purchases Bitcoin now, approximately within a year, he or she may be capable of doubling their initial investment.

I know that these are all pure assumptions, but instead of speculating massive ATH and 3x or 4x returns, which are way too common in the forum, why not expect something that is more probable to happen in the near future? And to be honest, doubling your investment is a great yield that cannot easily be found in other forms of investment.
So youre saying that people should really be just only thinking about 2x return or profit on their Bitcoin investment or holdings? Yes, it would be something that good to look at but we know that majority of us would really be looking for something better and we do always really love on reflecting into those past years on which Bitcoin did surprise most of us here on this space on which reaching out numbers on which we didnt really that even expect that it would really be able to reach out on that level.It did really just turn out to be that this market is totally random and cant be known and this is why we do really keep on making that speculative approach. Just let people to think on what they are thinking whatever whether it would really be positive or negative or something realistic or non realistic. Its their money that they had invested on which it is really just normal that peoples approach and speculations would really differ to each other.
legendary
Activity: 2618
Merit: 1181
I don't consider my investment goal to be doubling my money, but rather a return on what I have invested. That's the profit I expect from this investment, but I don't have a definite target when I will take this profit. If the price of bitcoin can reach x2 in the next few months due to halving factors or so on, then maybe I will take some of the profits and keep the rest for a longer period of time.

So far I've consistently accumulation as much as I can, but I only plan to do it until the halving. If the price of bitcoin during the halving has reached $50k, then I will stop accumulation and wait for the best moment to take profits. This is just a plan, but it may still change should the price of bitcoin not exceed $50k at the halving.
hero member
Activity: 1778
Merit: 907
Many might be expecting for it to happen, but with the halving expected to happen in April of 2024, I expect that we will start to experience major price increase at least 5 months or even more after the event, so I only expect that price increase will happen at around the 2nd half of the year. With what you said regarding economic condition, remember the pandemic in 2020? Are our economic condition good at that time? 2020 and 2021 are considered the worst years for many because of lockdowns, the virus being spread etc. but look at what the market did at that time. So I don't buy the "economic condition isn't promising" thing because the market increased in 2020 and 2021 even though we are at the considered the worst time.
Correct, I'm not expecting Bitcoin's price to rise right when the halving occurs. It'll take months, however, I believe that as we're heading towards April, the price is probable to gradually increase and surpass $40,000 pre-halving and perhaps reach up to $50,000 a month or two afterwards. The point is that we're less than a year away from where we're expecting a major increase in price, which is the last quarter of 2024. And yes, I'll have to agree with you, 2020 and 2021 were quite stagnant years for the economy, due to Covid-19, quarantines, travel restrictions and a whole disruption in the supply chain, the effects of which are still seen today. So indeed, there's a decent chance of Bitcoin ignoring the current economic recession.
It's good that you're not too greedy and set moderate goals for yourself to avoid regrets, but I find that a target of 100k$ or 120k$ is not too high for bitcoin in the upcoming bull season. I have even higher expectations than everyone's predictions, I believe bitcoin is completely capable of reaching $150k-180k.

Many people say that investing in bitcoin is not a place to get rich quickly, but we should not deny that it is easier to make double or triple profits with bitcoin than with any other asset. That's why we invest in bitcoin instead of other options, so I still consider bitcoin a get-rich-quick investment more than other assets.
I don't want to fall short of my expectations; I'd prefer to be modest and satisfied with what I have, although I'm quite positive that in the upcoming two years, it's very probable to see a new ATH that would triple my investment. However, as I've mentioned already, it's best to be modest and have more down-to-earth expectations.
I understand your down-to-earth predictions. Like me, you're also probably annoyed with those seemingly unrealistic targets. Sometimes, they seem nothing but wishful thinking.

But we can actually go back to what happened in the most recent past and see if these 3x or 4x returns within a year, which you observed as way too common in the forum, are probable.

The ATH was $69,044.77 and it was reached on the 10th of November 2021. On the 10th of November 2020, the price was just around $15,000. With this data alone, we can see that the price actually more than quadrupled in just a year's time. As a matter of fact, if we step back a little further to October of 2020, the price was just $10,000. Several months before that, the price was even much lower. It was just $5,000 in March of the same year.

Although we're already high at $27,000 right now, I'm still not discounting the possibility that it would at least x3 or x4 a year from now. That to me is still probable. That could still be a down-to-earth or realistic prediction.
Judging by what we've already seen Bitcoin succeed at, a new ATH isn't an unrealistic expectation. Surely, it won't happen now, but I wouldn't doubt that it's likely to happen in the next two or three upcoming years, which would result in 3x or even 4x profits. It's an insane amount of money, if you consider it.
The halving never caused the price to rise instantly, it happened only after 6+ months, and it is possible that there won't be a significant bull run until Q4 2024. However, I do not see it as unrealistic (or impossible) that we have a pre-halving effect that could perhaps cause a 25% to 50% price increase before April 2024. Anyone who invests today and gets the opportunity to earn 100% after 1 year should be happy if that happens, but if they don't want to risk it, keep the money in the bank or under the mattress.
That's correct, but still, Q4 of 2024 is approximately a year from now and may even result in a new ATH or at least somewhere close to $50,000 or $60,000, which is still great judging by the shortness of time it would be required from now. Those who are able to invest now won't regret it.
Halving is something that is definitely happening, but don't forget the possible approval of the spot BTC ETF in the US that can happen in the next few months, and most experts think that it will resonate very positively. In combination with the halving, it could very easily increase the price by at least x2 or more compared to the last ATH - which means that we could be talking about a price of $150k for 1 BTC sometime in late 2024 or 2025.
I haven't heard of it, to be honest. I've been quite busy with life the past few weeks, so I've lost touch with the news regarding cryptocurrencies. That would honestly be great, and I'd love to purchase some Bitcoin now, but at the same time, I'd rather not. It's a complicated matter, and I wish I could somehow speed up my accumulation process.
sr. member
Activity: 840
Merit: 377
With halving less than a year from now, the majority of us are speculating a major increase in price and possibly the start of another bull market after 4 years. Some are expecting to surpass the previous ATH of almost $70,000 and possibly reach $100,000. Although this scenario sounds great and all, I'm not quite confident that it'll happen in the upcoming year or so.
~Snip
Looking at the last time Bitcoin experienced a halving, it is true that this year Bitcoin halving will occur again. However, when talking about a massive increase in the bitcoin market price or what is usually called a bull market, it usually occurs a year after the bitcoin halving occurs. Because this can be seen from the bullish market that occurred in the previous phase. This happened one year after the bitcoin halving occurred. Because if you think about it logically, you can be sure that bitcoin will experience an increase in price, of course it can't just go up straight away. But of course you have to go through the process of offering and purchasing bitcoin on a large scale first. After that, the price of bitcoin will definitely experience an increase in its market price.

And regarding predictions of the highest bitcoin prices that might occur in the next bull market. It's true, many investors predict that bitcoin could reach a price of $100k in the upcoming bull market. Perhaps this prediction was put forward because it was based on the highest price of bitcoin that occurred in the previous bull market, namely $66.9k. So maybe many bitcoin investors think that the bullish market that occurred after this year's halving could exceed the ATH price of bitcoin in the previous phase.

Because that makes sense too. Because in the last few years bitcoin users have continued to increase quite significantly. So with this, it will definitely have an impact on the price of bitcoin in the upcoming bull market.

However, I tend to have a more pessimistic and down-to-earth approach to this matter. Bitcoin's current price is ranging from $27,000 to $28,000 as we speak, while we will also occasionally see it as low as $25,000. With that being said, in my opinion, sometime after the halving, the scenario of Bitcoin surpassing $50,000 doesn't sound too impossible to me. Thus, if we suppose that someone purchases Bitcoin now, approximately within a year, he or she may be capable of doubling their initial investment.
Your opinion is not wrong. Because the possibility of this happening is greater. However, you need to know that every bitcoin investor who saves their assets for the upcoming bull market will definitely have their own price benchmark for selling their bitcoin assets. So if you are only chasing a 1× profit, the scenario you created must be very correct. However, for bitcoin investors who are chasing profits of more than 1x, you can be sure that the scenario you created will not be suitable.
full member
Activity: 896
Merit: 193
web developer for hire
If you aren't in a rush to sell you'll have to time the sale to make most profits. Halving indicates to bitcoin's price going high but there isn't a regular pattern or rule for this. You don't want to hodl too long so you'll miss out on larger profits. The halving threads in the forum's getting frantic because of FOMO.

I am in no rush to sell my Bitcoin especially if it could reach $50k as my price target is above $60k. But I hope we can sell Bitcoin at the price we want so that there are no regrets later.
legendary
Activity: 3234
Merit: 5637
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~snip~
However, I tend to have a more pessimistic and down-to-earth approach to this matter. Bitcoin's current price is ranging from $27,000 to $28,000 as we speak, while we will also occasionally see it as low as $25,000. With that being said, in my opinion, sometime after the halving, the scenario of Bitcoin surpassing $50,000 doesn't sound too impossible to me. Thus, if we suppose that someone purchases Bitcoin now, approximately within a year, he or she may be capable of doubling their initial investment.


The halving never caused the price to rise instantly, it happened only after 6+ months, and it is possible that there won't be a significant bull run until Q4 2024. However, I do not see it as unrealistic (or impossible) that we have a pre-halving effect that could perhaps cause a 25% to 50% price increase before April 2024. Anyone who invests today and gets the opportunity to earn 100% after 1 year should be happy if that happens, but if they don't want to risk it, keep the money in the bank or under the mattress.

I know that these are all pure assumptions, but instead of speculating massive ATH and 3x or 4x returns, which are way too common in the forum, why not expect something that is more probable to happen in the near future? And to be honest, doubling your investment is a great yield that cannot easily be found in other forms of investment.

Halving is something that is definitely happening, but don't forget the possible approval of the spot BTC ETF in the US that can happen in the next few months, and most experts think that it will resonate very positively. In combination with the halving, it could very easily increase the price by at least x2 or more compared to the last ATH - which means that we could be talking about a price of $150k for 1 BTC sometime in late 2024 or 2025.
hero member
Activity: 1974
Merit: 586
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I know that these are all pure assumptions, but instead of speculating massive ATH and 3x or 4x returns, which are way too common in the forum, why not expect something that is more probable to happen in the near future? And to be honest, doubling your investment is a great yield that cannot easily be found in other forms of investment.
I call it a short-term investment, but for long-term holders, don't want to give up their Bitcoin holdings too early. 1 year after the Halving seems more reasonable and there will be more massive price movements. The principle of doubling an investment seems reasonable, but it also means that we quickly end the value of holdings over a long period of time just because we can't wait to take a bigger share. Let's say you sell it in the near future but can't recover the initial purchase price. Some investors buy Bitcoin at different prices so selling it at too early a price makes the profits less visible. Therefore, long-term holders choose to wait and maximize profits at the Halving moment.
sr. member
Activity: 1400
Merit: 283
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Bitcoin price could increase to $50k in the next few months or before the halving. But if it is about investment, we can increase the investment amount by accumulating more Bitcoins during this waiting period. And that means we still have time to buy Bitcoin until the specified time arrives.

And when the Bitcoin price really rises and reaches $50k before the halving, we can feel happy because the price is very likely to rise very high again. Our desired price target of over $100k may be achievable. But for now, because the price of Bitcoin is still below $30k, we still have to be patient.

I am in no rush to sell my Bitcoin especially if it could reach $50k as my price target is above $60k. But I hope we can sell Bitcoin at the price we want so that there are no regrets later.
Bitcoin is a relatively young asset, so it has a lot of potential and I think that the initial plan should include a much higher probability than just doubling our investment.

The average cycle that Bitcoin goes through takes 4 years, and hoping during this time to just double your investment is a very small profit with quite large risks, since in a traditional business you can also achieve a return on investment over a period of about 5 years. And since we are talking about Bitcoin, we should expect significantly larger profits over this period, I expect no less than x4-x5.

You're right, investing in bitcoin forces us to take greater risks, so just setting goals and expectations of x2 or x3 assets is too modest. We need to expect and achieve greater returns commensurate with what we have faced in the last four to five years. I will not sell my bitcoin if it does not reach $150k or more, I have faith and expectation that bitcoin will easily reach that level in the upcoming bull run. If we only expect x2 profits in 4 years then I would rather be in business and I can make bigger profits than that.
legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 1185
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If we focus solely on the potential for profit, it's easy to say that the more we invest, the better, as it can yield a larger return. There's no limit when it comes to the possibility of a bull run. Maybe even $100k per Bitcoin could be considered a conservative prediction because, based on past scenarios, it can go much higher. It's much more exciting to expect a tenfold return on our investment, which means Bitcoin could potentially reach $300k. That might sound high, but it's possible. During a bull run, the hype is intense, and people often experience FOMO, leading to the possibility of an overvalued price. However, after every bull run, a correction period follows. But we can maximize our profits before the correction begins. Typically, during a correction, bitcoin can become oversold, making it undervalued, which is a good time to accumulate again.
legendary
Activity: 2100
Merit: 1340
Bitcoin price could increase to $50k in the next few months or before the halving. But if it is about investment, we can increase the investment amount by accumulating more Bitcoins during this waiting period. And that means we still have time to buy Bitcoin until the specified time arrives.

And when the Bitcoin price really rises and reaches $50k before the halving, we can feel happy because the price is very likely to rise very high again. Our desired price target of over $100k may be achievable. But for now, because the price of Bitcoin is still below $30k, we still have to be patient.

I am in no rush to sell my Bitcoin especially if it could reach $50k as my price target is above $60k. But I hope we can sell Bitcoin at the price we want so that there are no regrets later.
Bitcoin is a relatively young asset, so it has a lot of potential and I think that the initial plan should include a much higher probability than just doubling our investment.

The average cycle that Bitcoin goes through takes 4 years, and hoping during this time to just double your investment is a very small profit with quite large risks, since in a traditional business you can also achieve a return on investment over a period of about 5 years. And since we are talking about Bitcoin, we should expect significantly larger profits over this period, I expect no less than x4-x5.
newbie
Activity: 65
Merit: 0
 I appreciate your level-headed view on this. Too often, we get caught up in moonshots and Lambos, but doubling your investment is a win in most financial books. The crypto world's a rollercoaster, and your $50,000 prediction seems plausible. With the global economic uncertainty, it's good to keep both feet on the ground.
legendary
Activity: 2758
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With halving less than a year from now, the majority of us are speculating a major increase in price and possibly the start of another bull market after 4 years. Some are expecting to surpass the previous ATH of almost $70,000 and possibly reach $100,000. Although this scenario sounds great and all, I'm not quite confident that it'll happen in the upcoming year or so. The current economic condition in the world isn't too promising and, in my opinion, will set back investments in general, including bonds and the stock market. I hope I'm proven wrong, though.

I'd expect a mix of speculations coming through - both negative and positive. But whatever it is none form them can be right, we only just know when the halving comes.

For now, investing seems to be a great idea for me. Despite being unpredictable and the current economic situation, we're still hopeful that the rise will come and make another ATH. It means that if we invest today we have a chance of earning more than just investing a little. Actually, I'd never think about $70,000 or $100,000 but what I just think is that at least the price of Bitcoin will pump.

Price speculation maybe more over than that since many think that this time would bring more different and price could able to reach more than $100,000 next year. But I will do realistic approach since I don't want to fall on wrong position that I may regret since for me I always put in my mind that whatever profit I get still good since it still profit so I would not wait for new ATH to be reach since maybe we might see a different halving effect for next year. But if price would really reach for the figures mentioned then for sure it will catch a lot of attention in the mainstream so lets just see if all good things we speculate will come since this might bring good adoption if price of bitcoin rise to another level.

For people thinking about when to accumulate then maybe this is the best time for them to start saving up for hodl purposes since current price is actually good to execute our buy orders since maybe we can see some rise on next couple of months.
sr. member
Activity: 2828
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win lambo...
With halving less than a year from now, the majority of us are speculating a major increase in price and possibly the start of another bull market after 4 years. Some are expecting to surpass the previous ATH of almost $70,000 and possibly reach $100,000. Although this scenario sounds great and all, I'm not quite confident that it'll happen in the upcoming year or so. The current economic condition in the world isn't too promising and, in my opinion, will set back investments in general, including bonds and the stock market. I hope I'm proven wrong, though.

I'd expect a mix of speculations coming through - both negative and positive. But whatever it is none form them can be right, we only just know when the halving comes.

For now, investing seems to be a great idea for me. Despite being unpredictable and the current economic situation, we're still hopeful that the rise will come and make another ATH. It means that if we invest today we have a chance of earning more than just investing a little. Actually, I'd never think about $70,000 or $100,000 but what I just think is that at least the price of Bitcoin will pump.
hero member
Activity: 672
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With halving less than a year from now, the majority of us are speculating a major increase in price and possibly the start of another bull market after 4 years. Some are expecting to surpass the previous ATH of almost $70,000 and possibly reach $100,000. Although this scenario sounds great and all, I'm not quite confident that it'll happen in the upcoming year or so.
There has always been an increase in price after every halving and as we all know halving takes place once every four years to help control the scarcity of bitcoin, not just a normal increase in price it has been known that bull run follows after each halving seeing butcoin rise to a new ATH. Every bitcoiner have been anticipating this for the past 3 years now waiting patiently to make use of this coming opportunity. No one knows for sure how far bitcoin price will rise as some people are even anticipating probable x10 and above as it did in the past.

If you have witnessed a bull run before then you wouldn’t doubt the power of a bull run, i have not experienced it myself but people who did have told me stories about it that I can’t wait to witness it myself. They say a month is too long for bitcoin price to rise as high as possible so in rhe coming year am open to any expectation.

The current economic condition in the world isn't too promising and, in my opinion, will set back investments in general, including bonds and the stock market. I hope I'm proven wrong, though.
This is true and it could actually affect investments but that doesn’t mean people will not invest and utilize the upcoming opportunity, alot of people have been making plans ahead for the coming bull market and it doesn’t matter how much you invested since there is no specific amount set as an investment target all that matters is not to miss out entirely on the opportunity.

I know that these are all pure assumptions, but instead of speculating massive ATH and 3x or 4x returns, which are way too common in the forum, why not expect something that is more probable to happen in the near future? And to be honest, doubling your investment is a great yield that cannot easily be found in other forms of investment.
People who have experienced bull market are the ones making these predictions because they are aware of how bitcoin moves during these period but speculations are speculations and doesn’t really matter what we expect or not the most important thing is to be able to realize profits at that time. If you have the means to double your investment we should not hesitate to do so because the more your investment the more your profits.
sr. member
Activity: 910
Merit: 284
With halving less than a year from now, the majority of us are speculating a major increase in price and possibly the start of another bull market after 4 years. Some are expecting to surpass the previous ATH of almost $70,000 and possibly reach $100,000. Although this scenario sounds great and all, I'm not quite confident that it'll happen in the upcoming year or so. The current economic condition in the world isn't too promising and, in my opinion, will set back investments in general, including bonds and the stock market. I hope I'm proven wrong, though.

However, I tend to have a more pessimistic and down-to-earth approach to this matter. Bitcoin's current price is ranging from $27,000 to $28,000 as we speak, while we will also occasionally see it as low as $25,000. With that being said, in my opinion, sometime after the halving, the scenario of Bitcoin surpassing $50,000 doesn't sound too impossible to me. Thus, if we suppose that someone purchases Bitcoin now, approximately within a year, he or she may be capable of doubling their initial investment.

I know that these are all pure assumptions, but instead of speculating massive ATH and 3x or 4x returns, which are way too common in the forum, why not expect something that is more probable to happen in the near future? And to be honest, doubling your investment is a great yield that cannot easily be found in other forms of investment.

History repeats, that is what we knew with bitcoin after every cycle so as per that assumption the previous ATH was around $65K and if the bull run starts next year the peak value will be atleast 2x of its previous ATH so in my opinion $150K even possible at some point.

It's all just speculation and no one can predict what will happen in the future, so if you are lucky then sure you can atleast make 400% returns by the end of bull season if you invest at current price.
hero member
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Bitcoin price could increase to $50k in the next few months or before the halving. But if it is about investment, we can increase the investment amount by accumulating more Bitcoins during this waiting period. And that means we still have time to buy Bitcoin until the specified time arrives.

And when the Bitcoin price really rises and reaches $50k before the halving, we can feel happy because the price is very likely to rise very high again. Our desired price target of over $100k may be achievable. But for now, because the price of Bitcoin is still below $30k, we still have to be patient.

I am in no rush to sell my Bitcoin especially if it could reach $50k as my price target is above $60k. But I hope we can sell Bitcoin at the price we want so that there are no regrets later.
hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 543
With halving less than a year from now, the majority of us are speculating a major increase in price and possibly the start of another bull market after 4 years. Some are expecting to surpass the previous ATH of almost $70,000 and possibly reach $100,000. Although this scenario sounds great and all, I'm not quite confident that it'll happen in the upcoming year or so. The current economic condition in the world isn't too promising and, in my opinion, will set back investments in general, including bonds and the stock market. I hope I'm proven wrong, though.

However, I tend to have a more pessimistic and down-to-earth approach to this matter. Bitcoin's current price is ranging from $27,000 to $28,000 as we speak, while we will also occasionally see it as low as $25,000. With that being said, in my opinion, sometime after the halving, the scenario of Bitcoin surpassing $50,000 doesn't sound too impossible to me. Thus, if we suppose that someone purchases Bitcoin now, approximately within a year, he or she may be capable of doubling their initial investment.

I know that these are all pure assumptions, but instead of speculating massive ATH and 3x or 4x returns, which are way too common in the forum, why not expect something that is more probable to happen in the near future? And to be honest, doubling your investment is a great yield that cannot easily be found in other forms of investment.
I understand the angle you are coming from which is global economic realities. Furthermore, it is good to keep ones expectations moderate, this I also notice from your post. However, I think the money in the world is not lost, rather, it is just not circulating as it should that is why it seems there is no much money. But trust me, when the fundamentals aligns, there will be huge cash flow into Bitcoin that will make the price to soar. By fundamental aligning, I mean positive news such as the halving, ETF approval or any major news.

So, even when I am not desperate to see 3x or 4x returns like you said, I will not rule out the possibilities because the potential is there. Nevertheless, the most important thing is to buy and hold and let the future decide.
full member
Activity: 2170
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Doubling our investment is multi purpose, you are doubling the amount of gains and multiplying once the market goes so high.
The thing here is that are we truly capable of buying more? Or are we have enough inside our wallet to wait for another halving?
This has been the problem in many ways that we wanted to add more in our crypto holding but wr have enough to risk so thats all we can have for now.
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