Is it possible to destroy Monero (XMR)? - page 3.

smooth

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Quote from: Bobsurplus on September 10, 2014, 01:57:38 AM

Sorry guys, Monero killer-
[spam link removed]

Sorry, nonsense.

Typical mix factors on ring sigs used in Monero are 3-5. Which means this technique reduces size of the ring signature portion of a transaction (not the rest of it) by something between a factor of 1.7 to 2.2.

What this will do is make it feasible for larger ring signatures to be used (say 10-25) in the same amount of space, improving untraceability. Monero will very likely implement this at some point (we've already had our cryptographers looking at it), which means it makes Monero better.

So the improvement is certainly nice, but its not a live or die difference at all.

And no it doesn't at all address the long term issues with blockchain size. If anything BBR's solution to that is better, and I say that a member of the XMR team, not the BBR team.

Bobsurplus

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Quote from: iCEBREAKER on September 10, 2014, 02:13:03 AM

Quote from: Bobsurplus on September 10, 2014, 01:57:38 AM

Sorry guys, Monero killer-
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.8754756

Chandran signatures? Seems good...
Premined? Fail.
Proof of Stake? Massive fail.

Wake me up when there is a fork that is 100% proof of work and 0% premined.

200K premine on 20M coins is nothing. The ledger is out in the open and those funds are only being used for the coins promotion.

I have no worries with a small premine, better then devs taking off with a 300 btc ipo?!?

Also, POW... that's so 2012. We're starting to think out of the box, no need to use all that electricity to mine coins anymore.

Anyway, I'm not here to sell anyone on xst, just pointing out that monero has many flaws and XST seems to have the solutions.

iCEBREAKER

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Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

Quote from: Bobsurplus on September 10, 2014, 01:57:38 AM

Sorry guys, Monero killer-
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.8754756

Chandran signatures? Seems good...
Premined? Fail.
Proof of Stake? Massive fail.

Wake me up when there is a fork that is 100% proof of work and 0% premined.

Bobsurplus

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Making money since I was in the womb! @emc2whale

Sorry guys, Monero killer-
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.8754756

arnuschky

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: othe on September 09, 2014, 10:54:37 AM

I am not sure what you talk about here, it´s pretty obvious that the other side is in no way better. XMR is by far the the CN coins which gets attacked the most without a concrete reason.

this one is easy, Monero is the best and the most promising contender of the CN tech.

Even though it's not sure whether Monero is getting any heat from the other CN coins.
Maybe one of the reasons is that whole story with the ByteCoin devs, which are allegedly
also behind some other CN coins?

Is that flame war with Darkcoin still ongoing? I haven't been active for a while, but beginning
of summer I had the impression that there was much attacking going on between the two
communities (both directions).

Slightly OT: what happened to Darkcoin since? Seems to be quite silent...

btc-mike

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Quote from: shojayxt on September 10, 2014, 12:36:47 AM

Of course it's possible. I don't know how and if I did I would never be that malicious. But I'm sure there are those that could succeed at destroying it.

A better question is how did this thread grow to 7 pages when the answer to your question can be answered with one word. YES

Done in 127

shojayxt

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Of course it's possible. I don't know how and if I did I would never be that malicious. But I'm sure there are those that could succeed at destroying it.

A better question is how did this thread grow to 7 pages when the answer to your question can be answered with one word. YES

smooth

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Quote from: rikkejohn on September 09, 2014, 07:30:49 PM

Quote from: smooth on September 09, 2014, 07:27:11 PM

Quote from: rikkejohn on September 09, 2014, 07:15:16 PM

I've noticed that many of the hardcore Monero "fans" have difficulty distinguishing between throwing out possibile scenarios to actually asserting such possibilities are not actually possibilities, but truth.

That to me says that these so called Monero "fans" are open minded and thoughtful, not zealots.

Really? I think you need a lesson or two in logic.

We start with swans, then it gets interesting, and hard.

Anyone who speaks of unqualified "truth" outside of mathematical abstractions is a zealot in my opinion, but maybe I misunderstood what you said.

rikkejohn

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Quote from: smooth on September 09, 2014, 07:27:11 PM

Quote from: rikkejohn on September 09, 2014, 07:15:16 PM

I've noticed that many of the hardcore Monero "fans" have difficulty distinguishing between throwing out possibile scenarios to actually asserting such possibilities are not actually possibilities, but truth.

That to me says that these so called Monero "fans" are open minded and thoughtful, not zealots.

Really? I think you need a lesson or two in logic.

We start with swans, then it gets interesting, and hard.

rikkejohn

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: rikkejohn on September 09, 2014, 07:15:16 PM

Quote from: othe on September 08, 2014, 08:54:27 PM

Same can be said about the ones who bought Apple shares or bought gold in 2001 when it was 260 usd/oz while it gone up to 1767usd/oz in june 2012.
Investing is about investing into something at the right time.

I also had Bitcoin in 2011 and sold most for cheap, way too cheap. Risto was way more clever, he profited from people like me.
There were a shitton of people with Bitcoin in 2011 but most of them were like me, so its not only about knowing about something, its about making the right decisions.
Even if you guys did know about BTC in 2011 i bet you didn´t hold them through all the bubbles, like most people.

Go away with your straw man arguments...

How is that a strawman? It's innuendo or inference at best, based on there being no demonstration of anything else in the closet, but plenty of talk and rhetoric regardless of that.

Taking things out of context like you just did, actually puts the strawman tag on you.

Utterly pathetic post, especially as you showed no reason to believe that a one-off success is reason to attach being "clever" to it.

You're a walking Fallacy, so I suggest you keep quiet.

I've noticed that many of the hardcore Monero "fans" have difficulty distinguishing between throwing out possibile scenarios to actually asserting such possibilities are not actually possibilities, but truth.

Unbelievable ignorance.

Just look at your post history, what do you have against Monero and the people behind it? It looks psychotic, go home rikkejohn, go have fun with your BITMIXER.

Personal attack, no substance, very much expected.

smooth

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Quote from: rikkejohn on September 09, 2014, 07:15:16 PM

I've noticed that many of the hardcore Monero "fans" have difficulty distinguishing between throwing out possibile scenarios to actually asserting such possibilities are not actually possibilities, but truth.

That to me says that these so called Monero "fans" are open minded and thoughtful, not zealots.

rikkejohn

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Quote from: othe on September 08, 2014, 08:54:27 PM

Same can be said about the ones who bought Apple shares or bought gold in 2001 when it was 260 usd/oz while it gone up to 1767usd/oz in june 2012.
Investing is about investing into something at the right time.

I also had Bitcoin in 2011 and sold most for cheap, way too cheap. Risto was way more clever, he profited from people like me.
There were a shitton of people with Bitcoin in 2011 but most of them were like me, so its not only about knowing about something, its about making the right decisions.
Even if you guys did know about BTC in 2011 i bet you didn´t hold them through all the bubbles, like most people.

Go away with your straw man arguments...

How is that a strawman? It's innuendo or inference at best, based on there being no demonstration of anything else in the closet, but plenty of talk and rhetoric regardless of that.

Taking things out of context like you just did, actually puts the strawman tag on you.

Utterly pathetic post, especially as you showed no reason to believe that a one-off success is reason to attach being "clever" to it.

You're a walking Fallacy, so I suggest you keep quiet.

I've noticed that many of the hardcore Monero "fans" have difficulty distinguishing between throwing out possibile scenarios to actually asserting such possibilities are not actually possibilities, but truth.

Unbelievable ignorance.

rikkejohn

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Quote from: rpietila on September 09, 2014, 09:26:11 AM

Quote from: illodin on September 09, 2014, 08:29:34 AM

Quote from: rpietila on September 06, 2014, 08:53:50 PM

Show me a coin where the dev holds less than 1% of the coins in circulation.

If someone's gonna own 1%+, who'd be better to have it than the dev(s)?

With the high regard that I have to some devs of some coins, in economic matters I trust much more those who have actual success to show in being shrewd with money - entrepreneurs, successful entrepreneurs, self-made men, the ones that have not succeeded by bootlicking governments, but who rather have a track record that governments have continued to attack them, closing their businesses, confiscating their assets, accused them in court on charges based on their own anti-competition laws, yet they have not lost heart, and still have an unwavering spirit to accompish what yet needs to be accomplished. The type Ayn Rand wrote about. The little that we must yield to central management of any kind, I would like to hand over to these men. If there are concentrations of private wealth in this world, I would sleep most happily if it is in the hands of these men.

You made money - amount not disclosed - from buying bitcoin in 2011. You are referred to in your country as the man that made money by buying bitcoin in 2011. So you got lucky, and you might want to play entrepreneur, but you're just a guy that bought bitcoin in 2011.

sonoIO

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Quote from: othe on September 09, 2014, 10:54:37 AM

Quote

Will not comment the first group too much as i do now have experience in that, but whole CN concept (egalitarian mining and whatnot) is intended to serve second group. It is not surprising that original CN folks does not like the first group, and it should not be surprising that a lot of average Joes will have more sympathy for the second group. That is naturally because CN folks didn't invent second group, they just recognized it.

That why they premine 80+ % and cripple the PoW, because they believe in egalitarian mining?

Quote

Another, and more dubious, point is the privacy oriented monetary platform does not mix with first group as well as with second group. Will not explain this, just think about it for a moment. One could stretch this so much to claim that first group and privacy for ppl is a oxymoron, but that is just a stretch.

That is again absolute non sense, every big company wants to move money around anonymously and so do investors.

Quote

And now something completely different, i personally liked XMR to the point when shilling and FUDing e.g. BBR surpassed my limit of a good taste. It may be the point when some e.g. DRK supporters switched to XMR, wouldn't know. And i do not claim that my good taste limit should be general, but my feeling is that XMR is going in to direction which looks like the reason why ppl were drown to cryprocurencies actually.

I am not sure what you talk about here, it´s pretty obvious that the other side is in no way better. XMR is by far the the CN coins which gets attacked the most without a concrete reason.

I was referring to privacy for ppl. You are right, there are two groups needing privacy for different reasons. Tnx.

Rest i will not comment, except that you could see that there is scamy and non-scamy part of CN folks if you would pull your head out of the sand.

And that is shilling i'm talking about Roll Eyes

smooth

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Quote from: rpietila on September 06, 2014, 06:09:49 PM

I am challenging everyone to find a reason what is behind this attack and hate.

...

Unfortunately it seems that the recent one could only have been pulled out by a person with much better understanding of the Monero code than Monero devs themselves.

Pretty fucking obvious to me.

Quote from: canonsburg on August 15, 2014, 05:06:45 AM

Monero had gained a lot of attention but because the mysterious devs didn't manage to financially gain from Monero's rise, they attempted to do a "scorched earth" approach to create a bunch of useless coins to dilute the CryptoNote "brand", trying to eliminate the network effect of Monero. But that didn't exactly go as planned either. They thought that if they couldn't have fame and fortune then no other CN coins should too.

Obvious doesn't mean correct, but it often is.

However, I also don't think the motivations are that important. If Monero continues to succeed, it will eventually become a target for more attacks that are financially motivated (this last one could even conceivably have been carried out by a financially motivated independent actor, but I doubt it), and also attacks by non-financially-motivated enemies with far greater resources. By attacking us now they are doing us a favor, since the early hardening makes for a much stronger technology later, when it really matters.

btc-mike

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Quote from: rdnkjdi on September 09, 2014, 12:32:01 PM

Quote from: cAPSLOCK on September 09, 2014, 12:28:15 PM

Quote from: rikkejohn on September 06, 2014, 08:13:07 PM

Okay, Mr Random, you're right about the coin market cap.

In saying that, I'm not sure how much XMR is being introduced daily by miners. the last time I bought some it was quite a bit cheaper, and i sold it at about 10% profit.

I find the figures quite staggering at Poloniex, but it seems to be dropping off a bit. So we either watch it decline or burst back. XMR does not strike me as a coin to just muddle along at average price.

Some of this has been discussed by Monero "enthusiasts". One very possible reason for the lack of a "takeoff" is the fast emission. One thought is if the devs can get the core functionality done in time:

-database overhaul
-code rewrite (clean up C mess etc.)
-harden code
-gui
-etc

the declining emission rate will slingshot the price up quite a bit.

What is the "in time" mean? Are there any estimates / timeline goals for any or each of these things?

The database overhaul is required because the blockchain size is starting to be too large for older computers. I don't know thew exact amount of memory required, but my Windows box with 8GB of RAM had problems loading the blockchain over a month ago. I had to close all other apps in order to succeed.

The database size will eventually be too large for Windows with 8GB RAM (possibly Macs also). If that happens, new users with those specs will not adopt and current users may look for something else.

rdnkjdi

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Quote from: cAPSLOCK on September 09, 2014, 12:28:15 PM

Quote from: rikkejohn on September 06, 2014, 08:13:07 PM

Okay, Mr Random, you're right about the coin market cap.

In saying that, I'm not sure how much XMR is being introduced daily by miners. the last time I bought some it was quite a bit cheaper, and i sold it at about 10% profit.

I find the figures quite staggering at Poloniex, but it seems to be dropping off a bit. So we either watch it decline or burst back. XMR does not strike me as a coin to just muddle along at average price.

Some of this has been discussed by Monero "enthusiasts". One very possible reason for the lack of a "takeoff" is the fast emission. One thought is if the devs can get the core functionality done in time:

-database overhaul
-code rewrite (clean up C mess etc.)
-harden code
-gui
-etc

the declining emission rate will slingshot the price up quite a bit.

What is the "in time" mean? Are there any estimates / timeline goals for any or each of these things?

cAPSLOCK

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Note the unconventional cAPITALIZATION!

Quote from: rikkejohn on September 06, 2014, 08:13:07 PM

Okay, Mr Random, you're right about the coin market cap.

In saying that, I'm not sure how much XMR is being introduced daily by miners. the last time I bought some it was quite a bit cheaper, and i sold it at about 10% profit.

I find the figures quite staggering at Poloniex, but it seems to be dropping off a bit. So we either watch it decline or burst back. XMR does not strike me as a coin to just muddle along at average price.

Some of this has been discussed by Monero "enthusiasts". One very possible reason for the lack of a "takeoff" is the fast emission. One thought is if the devs can get the core functionality done in time:

-database overhaul
-code rewrite (clean up C mess etc.)
-harden code
-gui
-etc

the declining emission rate will slingshot the price up quite a bit.

Nxtblg

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Quote from: jubalix on September 09, 2014, 12:23:29 AM

Bitcoin is the tech that allows a knew form of "government" in a decentralized way, an new kind of society and life. For most it will be better, for some, eg a large percentage of government "workers" they will be looking for new streams of income, as their host just found a way to be immune to much of their parasitic nature

Now that you mention it...that's a good idea for a sneaky kind of evangelism to the bureaucrats. "Join the Wild Wild West in the safety and comfort of your own home! Live a little! Feel the excitement and peril! Learn what you can while having a Wild West blast! And PROFIT!"

othe

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Quote

Will not comment the first group too much as i do now have experience in that, but whole CN concept (egalitarian mining and whatnot) is intended to serve second group. It is not surprising that original CN folks does not like the first group, and it should not be surprising that a lot of average Joes will have more sympathy for the second group. That is naturally because CN folks didn't invent second group, they just recognized it.

That why they premine 80+ % and cripple the PoW, because they believe in egalitarian mining?

Quote

Another, and more dubious, point is the privacy oriented monetary platform does not mix with first group as well as with second group. Will not explain this, just think about it for a moment. One could stretch this so much to claim that first group and privacy for ppl is a oxymoron, but that is just a stretch.

That is again absolute non sense, every big company wants to move money around anonymously and so do investors.

Quote

And now something completely different, i personally liked XMR to the point when shilling and FUDing e.g. BBR surpassed my limit of a good taste. It may be the point when some e.g. DRK supporters switched to XMR, wouldn't know. And i do not claim that my good taste limit should be general, but my feeling is that XMR is going in to direction which looks like the reason why ppl were drown to cryprocurencies actually.

I am not sure what you talk about here, it´s pretty obvious that the other side is in no way better. XMR is by far the the CN coins which gets attacked the most without a concrete reason.

Topic: Is it possible to destroy Monero (XMR)? - page 3. (Read 10399 times)