Topic: Is lying or cheating in support of stealing an election okay? (Read 460 times)

Yeah, I appreciate it hardly constitutes conclusive evidence - maybe I'm a credulous fool, but I still take the responses at face-value, and I'm surprised that it appears that some people want Trump out more than they want fair elections.

Meanwhile... the final results in my own poll are in, and I can reveal there was a surprise late swing!

Think of how much you still have yet to do, though, with your bitter memories of Trump. There MIGHT JUST BE a way to blame the Biden initiated wars on the TRUMP!

Wait, we're not quite to a Biden win yet. So there's still a possibility Trump could win and no wars.

https://issuesinsights.com/2020/11/12/look-closely-trump-still-has-a-good-shot-at-winning-reelection/

The facts are, as of Monday, a full week after election day, Biden is behind President Donald Trump in the undisputed electoral count — Biden’s 226 to Trump’s 232 (assuming Trump wins North Carolina) — with a full 80 outstanding electoral votes in seven states still in a legal fog and unlikely to be determined much before the Dec. 14 state deadlines to report the count to Congress.

Only the candidate with at least 270 actual electoral votes reported to Congress on that date will be declared the winner. Nothing more and nothing less. And it certainly won’t be “declared” by CNN’s Anderson Cooper.

So what can we say at this point about the outstanding 80 electoral votes in those seven states? What are the states in play and what are the ultimate likely outcomes?

The seven states still counting votes, or with recounts ordered, or audits forecast, or credible evidence of fraud or system “glitches” include:

    Georgia’s 16 electoral votes under a scheduled recount.
    Pennsylvania’s 20 electoral votes under a scheduled audit and a Supreme Court order.
    Michigan’s 16 electoral votes with statehouse subpoenas for election officials.
    Wisconsin’s 10 votes under a scheduled recount and statewide canvas.
    Nevada’s six votes chasing legal challenges for fraud and a Bill Barr Justice Department investigation.
    Arizona’s 11 votes still counting and under scrutiny for voter irregularities.
    And Nebraska’s one electoral vote in their District 2 under investigation.

That’s 80 outstanding Electoral College votes for which no one can at this point reliably predict a final resolution. How can anyone possibly know the results of any investigation, audit or recount before they have begun?

The only thing that is known for certain at this date is that Biden needs to capture 44 of the remaining 80, while Trump needs only 38. The combination of states to get to either of those totals are a bit varied, but there is one final determinate that heavily advantages Trump.

Of those seven outstanding states, all but Nevada’s six electoral votes are the responsibility of strong Republican statehouse majorities. Why, you might ask, is that important?

The Constitution of the United States provides in Article 2 that the final authority for every elector from each state is solely vested in that state’s legislature. Meaning any final disputes or resolutions of accusations of fraud will be determined by the majorities in those states. And since all but six of these outstanding 80 votes are controlled by Republicans, Trump has more than a good shot at being re-elected.

Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich cited on Fox on Nov. 9 the legal precedent that where election law has been violated, the court has invalidated the results of that entire vote. Even to the point of switching the result of the election from a corrupt Democrat to a Republican challenger.

So now you know why the left and their handmaidens in the media are so wild-eyed about projecting Biden now.

Yeah I really would take any poll results here with a grain of salt because it really isn't going to get you anywhere. If you want to see if Pew Research, or some sort of polling group would be interested in looking into this that is one thing. As they're a reputable outfit that is going to try to ensure that their results are close enough to what the general populace thinks.

Polling groups may be wrong sometimes, but this poll on bitcointalk forum isn't indicative of anything of real substance.

Well done,  I knew you can do it. Now on to the anger stage. Smash a plate or something. We'll get through this together.

...wait, that's GOT TO BE advice from a board brimful of anon nut job!

You guys crack me up

A poll on a board brimfull of anonymous nutjobs... it's about as much proof of intent/willingness of cheating in the election as Trump's abject failure to prove that he won said election.

Spendulus - just let Trump go. He lost. On the bright side you'll be able to criticize Biden/Harris for the next four years without having to pretzel excuse after excuse for why one stupid tweet or another is not actually stupid.

The number of liars and cheaters is never equal to the number of people who admit they are liars and cheaters.

But coming on five years of trump derangement syndrome and orangemanbad, I figured some people might readily admit to being worthless lying cunts, and they do. The poll is whatever people vote it to be.

I would have disagreed with this statement, however I'm surprised to see that the results of the poll - so far - do suggest that you might have a point. It's only 2 out of 17 who think that, but still, it's non-zero. We could do with some more respondents to see where this leads.

It's also worth noting that whilst we are talking about the possibility of illegal fraud to manipulate election results, the democratic process as it is is some way from perfect. Media outlets and public figures manipulate voters hugely with selective truths, willful misrepresentation and outright lies. Even if that were somehow solved, we still have the unfair 'winner takes the whole state' approach, which should more ideally be replaced with proportional representation - if everyone gets a vote, then every voting preference (above some minimum % threshold) should be represented in government. A broader spectrum of representatives might also work to mitigate the oppositional and factional nature of the current two-party system.

well since the democrats sided with the defund the police movement, after the georgy floyed execution,

they have become completely untrustworthy,

trump forever

they now are trying to steal their election with a left wing media coup that tries to dictate the nation its agenda,

they also have nothing to do with liberalism or progressivism,

they have a black fist as a logo, they are fascist neonazis and racists, disguising themselves as liberal and progressive civil rights movement

they also are trying to replace the professional police with racist and tribal vigilanties

Here's the thing though. From a neutral perspective, there is no proof of fraud. There's just none.

Now coming to voting process, look, Trump has been president and is still president. He knew all rules etc. The voting process is going on and counting of votes are done following rules which were already established.

The matter of the fact is when Trump says "Don't count vote that came after election day" itself undermines democracy. Each and every vote should and must be counted for. Because that's democracy.

It's not God vs Devil. It's an election between two politicians. Just because your side didn't win doesn't mean there were frauds. Sometimes acceptance is the key. Just because you support a particular politician doesn't in anyway define you or your uniqueness. Move on, Trump is a rich guy, he has his life settled. He ain't gonna pay our bills.

This isn't really relevant. Remember that Trump claimed in 2016 that although he won the election, 'fraud' had robbed him of winning the popular vote. The commission he set up to investigate his own lies the 'fraud' found zero evidence of fraud. My favourite quote from the linked article, which sums up the situation quite eloquently: "The plural of anecdote is not data".

He claimed fraud in 2016, and couldn't find any evidence despite being the most powerful man in the world, with all doors open to him.
Now he claims fraud again, without supplying any evidence. His attempted subversion of democracy didn't work last time, and won't work this time. The idea of someone who has been POTUS for four years positioning himself as a valiant outsider fighting against a corrupt system is absurd.

Evidence or didn't happen.

Lie or cheat is never been okay to steal any election in any place so really its now time for trump to accept this all and give up because he has not solid evidence to supply on any forum about his lost.

It's never okay to lie or cheat to steal an election. If you're going to do that, then why bother having an election in the first place?

Even before voting started, Trump's two possible outcomes were:
a) I won.
b) I won but was cheated by the other guy.

There was never going to be an 'I lost' outcome.

In this instance, the 'fraud' was a pre-determined excuse. If he lost, Trump was always going to challenge the results, no matter whether they were close or not (they're not close). There was never any way that he would accept that he had lost, no margin clear enough. Even 90% to 10%, he'd cry fraud.

And he still hasn't supplied any evidence.

Really don't understand this poll. If you're stealing an election then you're going to lie, cheat and steal to do it. It also presupposes, assuming this is all about the current election, that it's being stolen or attempting to be stolen by one of the parties and I don't see any clear evidence of that. The real question is whether or not there's ever any justification for "stealing" an election.

May be of interest, this is an article drawing from the expertise of DEFCON attendees (a large hacker convention). They always have a hall on hacking voting machines.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2020/11/02/computer-experts-sound-warnings-safety-americas-voting-machines/6087174002/

DEF CON, an annual hackers’ conference, has regularly packed a “Voting Village” with older election systems and invited people of all skill sets — including children — to poke for vulnerabilities. The very first machine to be hacked in the Voting Village launch was a DRE. It took minutes.

Of course that's not enough. Rather, it's only the beginning. By the time SCOTUS finishes, there'll be so many Trump votes found, that Trump will be shown to have won by the biggest landslide in the last 150 years.


Caught big time - Election data log files exposed repeated, criminal vote theft - they are busted

This is it, folks. The log files of the voting "transactions" have now been analyzed and they show over 500,000 votes removed from Trump and given to Biden, almost entirely in swing states like PA, WI, MI, etc.

This is the smoking gun evidence, and it was all done by the CIA using the Dominion software system that allows for remote, real-time theft of elections (which is why all the swing states simultaneously shut down their vote counting, so they could rig it from that point forward).

All the evidence is now coming out. The Dems are finished. Hundreds or thousands will go to prison. Many will begin to flee the country now.


Emergency Update - Nov. 11th - SCOTUS will nullify the election, Congress will decide - https://www.brighteon.com/64a46d81-3e4a-4945-b914-db215bf14d31


Watch In the Blink of an Eye: CNN's 'Magic Board' Subtracts 20,000 Trump Votes and Adds Them to Biden's Tally in Pennsylvania - https://www.brighteon.com/0ad42991-54da-4de8-9dc0-9f1e17627ccf


Giuliani breaks down evidence that could secure election for Trump - https://www.brighteon.com/6f6786df-a104-4398-bed0-6c06e9c50e2b


Cyber coup: Investigation underway -- Dominion Voting Systems (with ties to high level Democrats) repeatedly glitched in favor of Biden - https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-11-10-dominion-voting-systems-glitched-in-bidens-favor.html


System "glitch" in Wisconsin swapped Trump votes with Biden's, giving Biden a spontaneous "win" - https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-11-11-glitch-wisconsin-swapped-trump-votes-biden.html


Did Pfizer and the FDA conspire to withhold vaccine "good news" until after the election, playing politics with the pandemic to harm Trump? - https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-11-11-pfizer-fda-withhold-vaccine-info-after-election.html


CNN accidentally broadcast vote fraud as it happened live - https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-11-11-cnn-accidentally-broadcast-vote-fraud-live.html


Sidney Powell says nationwide election audit needed to expose widespread vote fraud - https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-11-11-sidney-powell-nationwide-election-audit-vote-fraud.html


Thug Democrats who run Michigan threaten legal action against Big League Politics over #DetroitLeaks exclusive showing vote fraud training - https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-11-10-michigan-democrats-threaten-big-league-politics-detroit-leaks-exclusive.html


Michigan poll workers created fake names so people could vote twice - https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-11-11-michigan-poll-workers-fake-names-vote-twice.html


Giuliani reveals that dead people voted for Biden in Philadelphia - https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-11-11-giuliani-says-dead-people-voted-biden-philadelphia.html


Bill Barr finally authorizes DOJ to start investigating "substantial allegations" of vote fraud - https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-11-10-barr-authorizes-doj-substantial-allegations-vote-fraud.html


Recount contested states or prepare for war: Win or lose, half of America will not trust election results without complete transparency - https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-11-10-recount-contested-states-or-prepare-for-war.html


CNN's Jake Tapper threatens Trump staffers to concede or get blacklisted - https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-11-11-cnn-jake-tapper-threatens-trump-concede-blacklisted.html

Nobody has to subscribe to a theory. It's the candidate's right to ask a state to prove its count and its results. It's the state's requirement to actually do that, or us spectators get to watch corrupt officials in that state try to squirm by with fishy excuses. Then we get to watch a SC case, the details of which nobody knows right now.

Doesn't matter what you doubt or opine either. Or me.

We're spectators.

Since the election fraud has been going on for decades, we really need to get rid of the US Government, because it hasn't been the one we attempted to elect for a long time now.

Yeah......

Even for the vote in Wisconsin, which is within 10-15k votes or so -- that's not even close enough, historically, for a recount to even do anything. In 2016 the recount only changed the fate of a few hundred ballots, not even close to the 10-15K that Trump would need to go FULLY to him.

Not going to happen. Unless you personally subscribe to the theory of -- WELL THERE WERE TONS OF VOTER FRAUD SO THAT MEANS TONS OF BALLOTS ARE GOING TO BE TOSSED -- I really doubt that. But I guess we'll see what the next few weeks of legal battles do. Doesn't seem like it'll be much though.

I'm not really sure about this scenario but it might be...
It is true that the minority in the US is very vocal and frontal to drop the trump at all costs however those who are pro and not, should accept the final result regardless of whether it was cheating that made one of the candidates win. hope the truth is revealed and the winner is the chosen one fairly & honestly.