Topic: Is the Era of P&D Over for Crypto 'Blue Chips'? - page 2. (Read 3906 times)

Been studying recent individual cryptocurrency trading behaviors and patterns, and I'm seeing clear telltale signs of emotional participants in some markets, and more technical trading in others, giving us a clue as to where the professionals are most likely operating, and, by implication, where the big newly arriving fiat is being targeted.

Yeah, 1995, looks like you caught it before I edited it out - didn't want to confuse and wanted to save it for later - but, yeah, I personally think we're more in a 1995 situation (early 90's anyway) than a 1999 parallel. Will leave it at that for now. Nevertheless, in 1995 there weren't liquidity problems of the sort you mention BTC had a couple of years ago. Your description is of something embryonic and not at all similar to an early 90's stock market comparison, but rather more like the NASDAQ when it was still OTC.

1995. Yeah ok. 1995 has a slow pace of moving accelarating as now is in bitcoin only in 1997-1998. We're currently as one guy said on bitcoin conference at level late 1997-1998. It all started in late 2015 - then we can said that it was 1995. Now we're 1.5yr later. It became dangerous little to pour. Scheme can still go, and probably will go for some time, before crashing, but it's as always - if it was real demand apart from speculators - it wouldn't be so steep.
Some hodlers with 10,000 btc could crash price any time - so say - if it's sustaible, to have such accelaration if one guy can accelarate or crash all the party. It's really sad, because liquidity is still none. Liquidity comes with speculators, but at the exchanges there won't be so liquid as forex market, it should OTC, to make it really liquid, with one integrated market. Then even orders like 10.000 btc, would make a such a difference.

Interesting watch . . . more or less both sides of the coin in a nutshell . . . but converging in mutual agreement long term.

"I'm in the camp that $80 billion will still look like a small blip when we look back." Albert Wenger
https://twitter.com/coindesk/status/867043701616517124

https://i.imgur.com/ltQoQiV.png

If btc gets over 100k then it may survive pump n dump syndrome

You really think so? I think the ERA still continues with pump and dump. Every time I see in the trade platforms that many alts are devalued in period of seconds. They are sold like lightening fast and the value becomes zero at a single momentum. I have seen and I'm experiencing this everyday. With the increase in prices of bitcoins, alts are getting devaluated because they are not that profitable now. They get dumped easily these days. So may there is time for the situation to stop completely I guess.  

Pump/dump is still possible. With higher trading volumes, it takes more money to accomplish it today than it did in the past when trading volumes were much lower. Today pump/dump might take more cash than is feasible & not be worth it in terms of risk versus reward. That's the only thing that has changed.

Even if btc isn't feasible for pump/dump, there will still be many altcoins with lower trading volume where its a normal thing.

I believe Pump and Dump era will never end.  Every coin has its time to be pumped then dumped.  It is a trading strategy implemented by people who have more funds to manipulate the market and earn more from trading.  This is a "natural phenomena" in trading.  It is like Air in the atmosphere, it will never end.

Interesting ideas especially the concept of whales still being able to manipulate BTC, and that LTC somehow has a real silver-gold relationship. Do you really think so? Japan isn't so involved yet, but the news of it becoming so is. No, there's lots to be considered, and lots to be debated, but always with the thinking cap on, and since I don't have time ATM to give things a better read, I'll leave off by promising I'll do my best to chip in when I can.

And the reason for this post:


http://i.imgur.com/uNuYj0f.png

Thanks for contributing.

LTC/BTC at 4:1 ? Are you insane ? Did you see to silver trade to gold to 4:1? Litecoin even with the best pumping and 'developer boost' (now), can get to about 45-50 : 1 and it was high enough, and the supply doesn't matter, so much these days. LTC is expensive for a currency without any perspectives than segwit and some upgrades. It has sentiment and support of many crypto exchanges, and is a base pair of many coins, but trading currency doesn't neccesary means it will go up. I think if LTC could reach again 50$, as I thought for a year, it can be a top for this year.

@up - of course. We're entering 'media attention' phase, cause even in my country (non-technical news), are reporting about btc sourging, so a few months from now (3-4, maybe 5), we will see pop, as I calculated around 5900-6400$, some tell about 10K, but for me it's still early for such prices, but 6K would be good price to pop and slash it to 1-1.2K. However if it would extend we can get to 8K-10K, in which will be extremely volatile.
Ok, so looking for a market history deep and hour by hour in oct and nov in 2013, we are at the stage 2 as I said - media attention, and maybe within this month, we can accelerate to have 10K (when the history would repeat itself), and the start we can estimate at 22 april with price 1220-1240$, it was only one month at it;s about 2250$ now, almost the same change %-wise like from oct 5 to nov 5 in 2013. It's almost the same. This month is important.

And also that we are done with threats like 'we're at bubble', suggesting still fear at the early stages of rapidly rising market.

Can you please point to an event, statistic, or underlying betterment of BTC's protocol that can justify the recent rise?


Japan:
I am sure money from this market has made a difference, but not on the scale we are seeing.

Code:
Taking todays announcement into consideration, there has not been a major settlement with the scaling issue.

Institutional, Hedge Funds, Governments:
I've heard rumors that money from these type of places has finally wised up and decided to enter the game. This rumor is often repeated, but never verified. I actually think once this rumor becomes a reality(sometime in the future), that is when we will see 10k per coin and up.

Bottom line, BTC's market cap and the liquidity on the exchanges still allows for wales to pump and dump. Wales aren't the only ones to blame. There are plenty of average people/traders buying BTC because they think this gravy train will not stop.

In fact, this thread is a good indicator we are in a bubble or just entering one. A bubble is when everyone at the party is drunk and cannot think rationally. If I say "BTC will only keep going up", that is an IRRATIONAL statement. Change the subject BTC with Apple stock or Real Estate prices and you will see how stupid it sounds. The fact that people believe BTC cannot be dumped means they are currently drunk.

You know, I just wanted to mention that I don't want to give the impression that contrasting opinions are not welcome in this thread. The fact that I've commented strongly against the idea that things never change should not be construed to mean that I don't want counter opinions to the possibility that we are currently experiencing a fundamental shift in crypto.

Quite the contrary! I want counter arguments, but they need to be just that: arguments! Just saying that things never change without saying what you base your opinion on are, to be honest, worthless statements. Even more specific comments like there is no change happening now are useless if you have no rational argument developed to support your opinion. However, almost everything is admissible if it's backed up with rational arguments!

So don't get me wrong, it's not like I don't want you to give dissenting opinions; it's just that I want you to support your view with observational data of some sort. It doesn't even have to necessarily be objective, but you do need to say WHY you think what you think and give examples for what you're talking about. I have cited clearly observable massive money flow over the last few months into crypto as one of my arguments (and I will share more of the same as I get time to do more analysis) that looks quite sustained until now. One possible counter argument would be to develop a thesis for why this is an anomaly, or, even better, a misinterpretation of the data on my part, for example. Have at it! I'm looking for healthy, open, honest and good faith debate.

Please shoot down my initial conclusions (I'm sure you'll be helping me to save a lot of money if you successfully do), but please do so with real arguments and without empty dogmatism. Who knows, we might even make some money together – the most important aspect of this thread should be that it is mutually beneficial.

There's size money driving these markets. Everything I'm looking at says that this is anything but pump and dump. I could be wrong though. That's one of the reasons why I started this thread. 

Look at that leader board! Huge fiat inflows = demand overwhelming supply. Early cycle leaders indicating there's more to come.


http://i.imgur.com/VDdgJ2p.jpg?1

Maybe we are in the new era of pump and stability (P&S) and have outdone the P&D that hitherto was tormenting newbies like myself and those who invested in expensive mines.

and what would u say about Ardor?

Perhaps you really mean to say that PREDICTING when a new era begins is usually wrong. If that's what you're meaning to say, then I agree with you.

I've taken great pains to make sure I reiterate again and again it's not IF, but WHEN, and that is what we're asking ourselves about. We're not questioning if it'll happen. IT WILL HAPPEN. There is no doubt about that. The question is when and how, and the key to this thread is that it is a QUESTION framed as: "is it happening under our noses right now?" It is not a prediction.

You wouldn't say there's never been new eras in the history of mankind would you?  

Changes happen every minute of every day. The trick is to adapt in real time. For the more complex and complicated changes we face, the usual requirements are a little foresight, insight and predictive capabilities, and the process normally starts with analysis regarding relative past experience and precedent, and feasible possibilities.

What's the old saying? Never say never?

I agree. It's a most interesting question, but, again, in my opinion, it's not a question of if, but when, and I think it's coming much sooner than anyone expects. We'd be remiss if we didn't. Not only to settle conflicts, but to also TAX the gains. Big money there for govs.

And there are proactive consumer protection measures as well . . .

What's most interesting for me from a valuation standpoint is that regulation will be the end of it for a few entities, no doubt in my mind.

yep. let's dig up this thread in a few months. either it's gonna be an embarrassment or a triumph. i'm betting on embarrassment.

My thought is that anyone who says we're in a new era is usually wrong. I've heard it so many times in other markets that I just don't believe it anymore. There are no new eras. We have seen it all, and that includes crypto..