Topic: Is the Era of P&D Over for Crypto 'Blue Chips'? - page 3. (Read 3906 times)

There's also a point where the free market ends P&D independent of regulation. It's a simple size thing. It's the reason why pink sheet penny stocks were always the favorite and why it's impossible to pump IBM, much less the EUR, for example.

BTC is arguably too big to be P&Ded now.

The thesis is that money flow into crypto is so large and so constant that other cryptocurrencies will soon be taken to similar capitalization levels, and that little by litte, probably sooner than later, through a series of across the board rallies with relatively shallow corrections, the top 25 to 50 eventual survivors will all be taken to similar levels. Perhaps we'll be talking about the "blue chips" and "penny stocks" of crypto in just a few months time. With the later, there will still be P&D, but will we see it through the same eyes by then? Or will it end up working against them, ironically speeding up their eventual death in so far as having a chance to go beyond cult status to mainstream acceptance?

this is a very interesting question. it looks like most legal clarifications so far treat crypto as forex. forex has nothing like the regulation that any stock market has. however crypto markets also contain the people who created and control the currencies. there's gotta be some conflict that regulators won't like in there somewhere.

i wonder as it gets bigger whether they'll let it continue to be a free for all or not.

Pump and dumps wont just go away.

There is no laws and regulations that will make sure this cant happen.

And from what I know, then  there is a group called "fairpumpers" that are doing a public "fair" pump and dump.

But they also have a private group that has to pay .50 or .75 to get in.

Which sounds sketchy if you ask me.

But P&Ds will be a thing forever.. Unless regulation will kick in.

Monero is on the radar, but with "only" a 60x ratio specific revaluation prospect, I'm not sure about it getting an imminent boost to that level - there could be perceived negatives based on being a relative laggard within the top level group of the top 10 (by new money looking for the still relatively  "undiscovered" coin with "big potential"). For lower end appreciation prospects, I'm looking for something that serves the more hardcore bank vault equivalent, like BTC (not) or LTC. I like everything you have to say though, but I'm just not all that much in need of absolute privacy either, and especially not if basic security is compromised - not saying it is, but when there's a doubt . . . maybe someone else can help out with this . . . maybe I'm not adequately informed.

Thanks for pointing it out and reminding me to keep it on a front burner.  

Lots happening there on a consistent real time basis! And lots to read and learn about for the future too. https://nxt.org/announcing-ardor/

Thanks for whetting our appetite!

Amazing what Nxt has done and continues to do.

Yeah I don't see P&D completely dying all at once either. While I'm thinking the time might be now for the best of the best to be substantially revalued, there could be a few more rounds with the majority of coins and perhaps even more with the more speculative coins.

As you say, comparing strictly by numbers is very limited. Blockchain projects with applications usable in real life is extremely important, especially for the 2nd generation coins who don't intend to compete on a purely store of value level.

STEEM and BTS are a couple of my favorites precisely because of what they're doing in the "real life" area. NXT and SYS are 1st generation winners creating real, one stop, store of value and means of exchange, that is to say, true LTC rivals that will probably end up standing side by side with LTC in that space.

In any event, I completely agree that strict ratio analysis is only a relative springboard as it were, and I've invited people from each of the cryptos above to share their thoughts and ideas about their respective "coins" to hopefully expand the conversation a bit and make it more useful to all.

Thanks.

Agree that SYS is undervalued. I haven't researched the others, but due to your posts, I will.

I'd add Monero to the list of solid coins. It's the most fungible and private coin available. With more money pouring into crypto, people will soon realize that they don't want merchants/others knowing how rich (or poor) they are since most of these coins are on transparent blockchains. With Monero the amount you send, the person you send it to, and your sending address are all not visible on the blockchain. In an era of government and corporate spying, the need for financial privacy is only going to increase.

Its value is poised to grow because of those reasons, but also because major features are due soon: Kovri I2P, multisig, and mobile wallets. The unofficial spokesperson, FluffyPony, gave a presentation to Coinbase earlier this year. As to whether Coinbase includes Monero with BTC and LTC remains to be seen.

XMR also is not a Bitcoin clone. It started from Bytecoin (which had a > 80% premine) but has been improved so much that to say it's a Bytecoin clone is no longer a good description. The devs (over 200 contributors with around 10 core devs) are top-notch, responsive, and involved. Monero has been academically reviewed and still undergoes extensive testing through the Monero Research Lab. It's survived several attacks and smear campaigns because the tech is solid and does what it claims to do. It's one of the few coins that doesn't engage in hype and out-of-control marketing, choosing instead to focus on its tech.

So, I believe it's still undervalued.

As requested.

1) In Nxt stake holders control consensus and get fees from transactions.
Unlike Proof-of-work where miners are in control of consensus and network which causes conflicts of interest and strife in proof-of-work currencies.

2) Nxt has pioneered many features that other coins adopted or think about adopting.

3) Nxt is the longest running cryptocurrency not cloned from Bitcoin. Different code is a good technique to diversify from possible flaws of the Bitcoin copycat coins.

4) Nxt has most dedicated devs who never miss a deadline.

5) And the last but not the least, Nxt is soon to become Nxt 2.0 on the Ardor platform. Ardor, like Nxt before it, is a pioneer of scaling solutions in the form of child chains, not seen in any of the other cryptocurrencies, featuring 35x better scalability than Nxt or Bitcoin on consumer grade hardware (your average laptops).

I do not think the dumps are necessarily over (still thinly traded markets), but agree with the notion that - should the crypto currency growth endure - there will be a steady inflow of money seeking a part of this. And yes, definitely some of it will go into larger altcoins, if only as a speculative bet.

And all of this is good as long as the user base keeps growing, on to applications usable in real life. For now, I settle for Bitcoin's excellent 'decentralised trust' mechanism. Not a bad feature for medium term thinking, looking at the path major fiat currencies are currently taking.

Comparing Bitcoin with other investments by numbers, this is still very tiny and thus subject to major price variations. So also dumps I think. And there is no shock absorber  

I sure hope early coins like Devcoin will make it to the other side. On the other hand, no coin really dies if there are two people sending each other coins  

My pleasure. And now for yours?

Based on a strict particular ALTcoin to BTC ratio, the most undervalued of my current favorite candidates for immediate price revaluation are:

NXT and SYS, both extremely solid 1st generation coins that are more than 500 times undervalued.

BTS and STEEM (already mention in my previous post) are both more than 250 times undervalued.

Want a stalwart that's guaranteed to always be there? How about LTC? 84 million total eventual supply is 4:1 with BTC. How long until LTC trades at $500? So, by that measure, LTC is 20 times undervalued.

Turn this equation around and you've got extremely good risk/reward on these, what I consider to be, phenomenal opportunities, again, as is central to this thread, as long as we're not witnessing a P&D on a massive scale that's beyond imagination. (I know it's hard to buy the highs . . .)

Those are my "stars" ATM. There are tons of 2nd tier coins ... XMG, GRS, DMD, NLG, XMY, etc., ... that are even more undervalued and worth watching closely, but I expect those to correct more than my stars and to give us second, and even third chances, to repeat the experience, but we'll have to see how things develop on that first.  

Contrary to what all the positive articles are saying dumps are not over and they will keep happening. Some people have hold enough Bitcoins to singlehandedly cause a big crash. They would be stupid to do it because they'd lose a lot and it would be much wiser to sell slow, but it's possible. These people will have to sell eventually and some of them might not want to wait and convert their stash in portions.

That’s certainly the “other side of the coin” - “what we’ve known until now” - but assuming that things will always be the same never works forever. Regimen changes can cost a lot of money to those entrenched in outdated thinking. It’s important to avoid falling into that trap, and, well, that’s the reason for this thread.

I think we can all agree that the question about reasonable valuations for solid performing products like STEEM or BTS, to name but two examples, is not a question of if, but when. Those are two stellar examples, Freudian slip intended, but there are many more. Many more. LTC is not going away anytime soon, rather it will be trading at its 4:1 ratio with BTC sooner or later, don't you think?

Sooner or later. At some point there’s a paradigm shift. Sooner or later. Agreed? Could it be happening now?



As I just outlined above, sooner or later we’ll get that new paradigm, why not now?

Japan is getting very crypto friendly very fast. Look out if institutions like the Japanese Government Pension Fund starts getting involved (sooner or later, right?).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Pension_Investment_Fund

Money’s number one priority is self-preservation, and there’s big money on the outside looking very seriously at cryptocurrencies, and, in my estimation, already moving into cryptocurrencies in a big way that’s going to get much bigger very soon (but you already know my opinion on that).
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-09/bitcoin-soars-over-1700-2017s-best-performing-currency

Pump and Dump never ends it just takes on a different form, we view every market transaction as an experiment and we are always learning from them and looking for an opportunity to get better some ideas work really well and some we need to look into.
Right now some investors know the history and the trends but as more people come into the market they will not have the lessons of the old timers and repeat old mistakes that is when a dump occurs ^^.

I think pump and dump are still prevalent in the altcoin market. This practice is fraudulent to begin with, but it can't be stopped. This is a strategy by most professional traders and big investors alike. And its the newbie that are mostly affected by this because they don't know what hit them, so they panic sell just to recover. While the big whales are profiting out of it.

The pump and dump is not related to an one time period but it is a sort of a strategy used by traders intentionally to pump and dump the coin to their own benefits.

Lots of altcoin dev are doing this practice and fooling a lot of innocent people. With Bitcoin, it is difficulty to keep the pump and dump strategy one because of it high volume and secondly its too high a price now to play such games.

I am really happy as i see no real pump dump of bitcoins. This clearly means that what high bitcoin price we see now is the real price and it is a stable price. We all need stable high price of bitcoins and this will give more trust among the people.

nothing, but nothing, presently justifies its valuation. there's no more usage than there was a few months ago.

at the same time when you look at figures like coinbase published recently about new users and the japanese banks applying to create crypto exchanges, the weight of newcomers might well cancel out the possibility of major dumps.

it depends on whether they keep on coming and we end up with an eternal september situation. but sooner rather than later all these coins need to actually deliver something tangible.

and thread titles reminds me of two phrases - 'this time it's different' and 'new paradigm' and we all know what happens next when they're thrown around.

that is what they want you to believe. and when you start really believing it, then BAM! they dump on you and you are crushed under the load of altcoins when you are just bag holding and kicking yourself asking why did i leave bitcoin for these.

the market is surely bigger and a lot more money has came in but it really doesn't change things. the whales who dump to get the money out to better things are so much bigger now compared to the total money that came in