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Topic: Is The Purpose of The Merit System Defeated? (Read 678 times)

sr. member
Activity: 898
Merit: 284
I understood that the major purposes of the merit system is to ensure quality, uphold standard and standardize ranking.
If the above hold true, I have a proposal.

I propose that;
1. The newbies should be restricted to posting only in Beginners and Help Board.
2. However, newbies should be allowed to read in all boards for learning purposes.
3. All other members save newbies can post in the Beginners and Help.
4. Every newbie should remain in this status for a period of 90days. After the expiration of 90days, the forum moderators shall examine the performance of every newbie, then immediately award a certain number of merits(Let's say 10, 20, 50 etc) according to the performance of the newbie in this 90days orientation period. Also place the user in any rank other than newbie according to the performance aswell.

Pros:
If this is implemented, we could have the following results
1. The rate of spamming will reduce drastically
2. The rate of plagiarism will reduce aswell.
3. This will curtail stagnation or abandonment of an account
4. This will help guide users on which boards to post, most often you will see a newbie posting a Beginners and help post in meta.
5. This will reduce the amount of none quality posts
6. It will also reduce off topic posts.
7. It will encourage the newbie to research and have good knowledge of the forum and Cryptocurrencies at large in order to be awarded higher merits and promoted to a good rank after the orientation period.
8. It will ease the moderation of the forum.
9. The discusions in the rest of the  boards would be interesting, technical and quality .
10. It will ensure the introduction of users with ample knowledge of the norms of the forum into the forum.

Cons:
1. It will limit the chances of a user in a campaign to complete his/her weekly task. However, I don't know if newbies involves in campaigns or not.

Thank you!

Believe me or not your write up lack thesis. Your logical reasoning is not substantial enough to prove that you know what you are writing. You just a junior member if I may say, looking for the same merits that you criticizing the aim of it creation and system.
You need merit If I may say but don't worry, you will get enough when the right time comes. Don't you think that writing sometimes with full liberty is entertaining and full of numerous opinions? Can you endure waiting for three months creating posts without earning a merit? Don't u think your opinion is really lacking comprehension?
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1018
Hello Leo! You can still win.


3. All other members save newbies can post in the Beginners and Help.

What do you mean by "save"?

I'm sorry for late reply, what I meant in the context by "save" is apart from. As "all other members apart from the newbies can post in the Beginners and Help.
Thanks!
newbie
Activity: 63
Merit: 0
If this idea of yours is to be adhere to; I don't think you will graduate from been a newbie to a junior member.
I think the forum have a way of encouraging the newbies than this way of discouraging them.
newbie
Activity: 33
Merit: 0
This format of scrutinizing the newbies, can't be accepted why because the protocol listed by you, is a process that indicate the following:
1: discriminating the newbies
2: subduing them to a lifetime handwork
member
Activity: 882
Merit: 63
If you were to isolate the newbies in a single board, you will make a jail and @theymos strongly disagrees with the idea and newbies won't be able to explore the forum if they are isolated plus not every users that gives merits are a frequent visitors on that board which lowers their chances of being rewarded with merit, also why worry about signature campaign? The manager is the first line of defense against spammers that tries to join the campaign.
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 7892

Nobody's saying you can't be here. I'm not stopping you from asking away about anything. You don't seem to be interested in anything other than forum mechanics and telling people what they should do. And you're definitely not a newbie.

Oh shit, it's a triple "Sir" type member.  Well, at least we know he's an aspiring bounty hunter and probably has another account with which he's already earning turd tokens.  What he's doing with the KingsDen account, I have no idea.

It can only be the result of one thing.

legendary
Activity: 3234
Merit: 6706
Proudly Cycling Merits for Foxpup
2) suggests you're not actually a Newbie.
Yeah, that much seems to be obvious.  I'm wondering whether he's a previously banned member trying to start anew on the forum with a new account (and in violation of the rules).  The only other reason that makes sense is that it's an alt account being used to increase bounty earnings, though I don't see anything in his signature space.  Or....could be that he was lurking for a while before registering, like I did in 2015, but I think that's extremely rare nowadays. 

Most newbies don't join the forum because they're genuinely interested in bitcoin; they're referred here by their drippy-eyed brothers and cousins--and probably in some cases their parents--in order to strike it rich by shitting all over the forum in order to earn some worthless token that they might get screwed out of in the end anyway.

Sir,

Sir,

Sir,
Oh shit, it's a triple "Sir" type member.  Well, at least we know he's an aspiring bounty hunter and probably has another account with which he's already earning turd tokens.  What he's doing with the KingsDen account, I have no idea.  His posts here make me want to put him on ignore, which I probably will after posting this.
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1018
Hello Leo! You can still win.
Quote from: nutildah link=topic=5343711.msg57279337#msg57279337
Usually a first post is something like "Titcoin to the moon!" or... "Why won't my Electrum wallet connect to the internet?" or even "Hey what the hell happened to my shipment of Black Arrow miners???"
Sir, the above sample topics you listed as what a newbie should post does not relate to me. I was not a newbie with zero crypto knowledge. So, I shouldn't on my first post begin to make topics that are not peculiar to me? If the above topics are what newbies should post, I am sorry I was not aware. Your statement however is in support of the proposal of the OP(Orientation for Newbies).
Assuming I was informed that that is how first posts look like, I would have started with a topic like "Hello House! Please help me, what is Bitcoin?"

Quote from: nutildah link=topic=5343711.msg57279337#msg57279337
- Don't start posting in Meta right away or engage in obvious merit-seeking behavior. It means you have developed an understanding of where people post and what they post in order to get merits, in all likelihood due to prior experience with the forum.
Sir, I dedicated time to reading in different boards without contributing, especially as a newbie? That was how I got some information.
Sir, the forum is user friendly?. Such that at every board, there is a mini board or what I can call board description, which states the kinds of posts to be made in such a board. As a newbie I read the descriptions before posting.
I have no prior experience. Few weeks of knowing this forum has left me in total regret why I haven't known this forum since 2010 I started wasting my time on social media (especially Facebook)
However, sir I appreciate your directions and advice, but it rather demoralised me instead of encouraging me. I have many things in my mind to share and ask, but it seems I can be using PM to get some answers and directions, because I am unsure of the post to make that will fit without misunderstanding. Thank you!
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 7892


Isn't it great that we have this leadership-charged generation of newbies  Roll Eyes incoming to remind us of what we should or shouldn't be doing. 

I'm bleedingly late with work but this is too weird to just ignore. This is your first post.

I made this post in two categories; first to encourage the newbie and second to advice the old members.

Why would you do that? You weren't even a Newbie at that point as you hadn't posted yet. You were Brand New.  Not only is it highly unlikely as a Brand New user that you have advice to give "old members" of the forum, but you should realize that coming hot out of the gate with this approach

1) reflects a dismissal of the knowledge or competence of every single forum member with one or more posts
2) suggests you're not actually a Newbie.

Here's a couple secrets for not getting caught right away next time:

 - Don't start posting instructions on what the forum should be doing right out the gate, in your very first post. Usually a first post is something like "Titcoin to the moon!" or... "Why won't my Electrum wallet connect to the internet?" or even "Hey what the hell happened to my shipment of Black Arrow miners???"
 - Don't start posting in Meta right away or engage in obvious merit-seeking behavior. It means you have developed an understanding of where people post and what they post in order to get merits, in all likelihood due to prior experience with the forum.

For the Old members, I will liken the forum to a building from foundation to roofing.
The building at the foundation stage does not make it less building, but it is the stage at which the engineer puts much efforts and expertise. Take the newbie as the foundation, help us grow, for if the foundation is wrongly laid, it will have a significant negative effects at the completion stage.

OK KingsDen, I will take your message to heart. You sir, however, are no Newbie, sir.

Good Day.



Haha actually I'm not mad if you want to carry on, its entertaining. Couldn't quite find the GIF to express myself but close enough.
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1018
Hello Leo! You can still win.
Let's break it down step by step:

Thank you Pmalek, your post is a real definition of the word "discussion".
I like your method of discussion. If you agree, you agree with reasons. When you disagree you still outline your reasons rationally. This gesture would be welcoming to new users like us. It will not only give sense of belonging, but will foster knowledge acquisition.

Unlike some who will attack this way; "You must be crazy if you think the moderators have the time to check all the post" etc.
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 7892
I was new then, I could not get up after understanding the rules. Now I have fully understood the rules. Will you think a little about your trust? Can you see my profile again?
my profile: https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/eycone-3332840

No, you weren't new then. You keep coming back under new accounts. The first thing you do is look for merit.

Your (new) first post is telling another member with 480 posts what they should be doing.

Your second post is telling people not to copy/paste.

You haven't spent enough time learning about Bitcoin or the forum to add anything of value here.

Try harder.


full member
Activity: 1134
Merit: 105

Gross. You're in the exact same boat as OP, and you've been plagiarizing since your first post.


I was new then, I could not get up after understanding the rules. Now I have fully understood the rules. Will you think a little about your trust? Can you see my profile again?
my profile: https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/eycone-3332840

Don't you think copying other people work and posting them as your own is not right legally. Plagiarism is not forum specific but a universal rule.
I doubt if nutildah will remove it or make it neutral. If this happens, then everyone will come up with their applications.
member
Activity: 122
Merit: 19
https://i.imgur.com/0cKROEC.png

Gross. You're in the exact same boat as OP, and you've been plagiarizing since your first post.


I was new then, I could not get up after understanding the rules. Now I have fully understood the rules. Will you think a little about your trust? Can you see my profile again?
my profile: https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/eycone-3332840
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 4795
Try to be an established member (senior, hero or legendary) before making this kind of post, you will be differently oriented at that time.
I don't think it's a good idea though, it kind of sounds like it invalidates the opinion of the other users below Senior Member like myself. But you are right that they should be familiar with the in and outs of this forum before saying anything.
Full members are established members too already, that does not mean they do not have their own opinion to suggest on this forum, the opinion can even be welcomed, also do not get me wrong, even newbies and any other ranks can suggest their own opinion, if what is suggested is genuine and welcomed, I will not make such comment, but it is not welcomed as established members will see it, and this is common to newbies and junior members and normal member rank to make certain suggestions that won't be welcomed here. So, telling them in such thread to be a somewhat an established member will help them to know more and in which they will have different opinion at the time.
sr. member
Activity: 1624
Merit: 315
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
Try to be an established member (senior, hero or legendary) before making this kind of post, you will be differently oriented at that time.
I don't think it's a good idea though, it kind of sounds like it invalidates the opinion of the other users below Senior Member like myself. But you are right that they should be familiar with the in and outs of this forum before saying anything.
full member
Activity: 1134
Merit: 105
Newbie restrictions are fine as it is, 'analysing' performance of newbie is stupid idea and will just put extra work on relevant parties.

Analyzing the performance of newbie after certain number of days is a bad idea. We are not here on the job or on the probation period where by our performance is judged after 90 days.
If you notice newbie is shit posting or not posting up to the standard, just report it. There are enough tools in the forum which won't let a shit poster rank up.
hero member
Activity: 2464
Merit: 934
Newbie restrictions are fine as it is, 'analysing' performance of newbie is stupid idea and will just put extra work on relevant parties.
legendary
Activity: 2730
Merit: 7065
Farewell, Leo. You will be missed!
Let's break it down step by step:

I propose that;
1. The newbies should be restricted to posting only in Beginners and Help Board.
No. Newbie restrictions and a newbie jail is not welcome. Everyone should be allowed to post anywhere they want if this forum is to keep its importance in the future.

2. However, newbies should be allowed to read in all boards for learning purposes.
The forum allows you to read its content even without being logged in, so the rank doesn't matter.

4. Every newbie should remain in this status for a period of 90days. After the expiration of 90days, the forum moderators shall examine the performance of every newbie, then immediately award a certain number of merits(Let's say 10, 20, 50 etc) according to the performance of the newbie in this 90days orientation period. Also place the user in any rank other than newbie according to the performance aswell.
This is a discussion board. People are not applying for a visa or studying for their master's degree. Who would be interested in going through all that to become a member here? The moderators have enough to do without giving them the task to check the post quality of each and every newbie. All members (no matter their ranks) should get merits in the same way: Based on the quality of their posts. 

Pros:
If this is implemented, we could have the following results
1. The rate of spamming will reduce drastically
In other parts of the forum, yes, but it will increase in the B&H board.

2. The rate of plagiarism will reduce aswell.
Limiting newbies to the B&H board wont reduce the number of plagiarized posts, but it will make them easier to find. 

4. This will help guide users on which boards to post, most often you will see a newbie posting a Beginners and help post in meta.
Such posts can be moved to the appropriate sub-boards. What if the newbie posts in a foreign language, starts a discussion about an altcoin/ICO, starts a scam thread, etc. All those would go in B&H as well?

5. This will reduce the amount of none quality posts
Highly unlikely. 

6. It will also reduce off topic posts.
It will increase off-topic posts because all threads by newbies will be posted in the same sub.

7. It will encourage the newbie to research and have good knowledge of the forum and Cryptocurrencies at large in order to be awarded higher merits and promoted to a good rank after the orientation period.
it will result in newbies no longer being interested in joining Bitcointalk and spending their time elsewhere. 

8. It will ease the moderation of the forum.
Newbies aren't the only ones that need to be moderated, all members do, including legendaries.

9. The discusions in the rest of the  boards would be interesting, technical and quality .
A higher rank does not equal greater competence and technical knowledge. Many high ranked members got their merits airdropped and didn't earned them by being merited by other forum members.

Cons:
1. It will limit the chances of a user in a campaign to complete his/her weekly task. However, I don't know if newbies involves in campaigns or not.
The admins don't care about the bounties and signature campaigns members participate in.
staff
Activity: 3248
Merit: 4110
Besides, all of your proposes doesn't actually reduce spam, well to a certain degree it might. However, what it is most likely to do is concentrate the spam in one section, which means that the section becomes a rather annoying section to read, which would probably reduce the amount of users actually contributing to the section. I actually quite like B&H current state. There is spam, and wrongly posted threads there, but it isn't too big of an issue. We could probably do with a bit more reports in that section, but currently there does seem to be a big emphasis on helping newbies out in that section, and I would prefer us to be more welcoming to new users, than too hostile by limiting their actions based on the few bad users we get.

I used to quite like the idea of a modified newbie jail, instead I would probably opt for a shadow ban system, where new users posts are manually approved by moderators. This could potentially be implemented with merit, and once they have earned 1 merit, or whatever amount that would be acceptable, they would no longer need to be approved.

It creates a little extra work for moderators, and staff users, but the overall improvement to the rest of the forum should be worth it. The only unfortunate side of that is, some newbies will be confused by it, and would likely try posting the same reply/thread several times or create threads asking why their post isn't visible. However, if we treat it as; a shadow ban, which the logged in user sees their post then there shouldn't be too many issues. If we have enough activity between moderators, and can cover all time zones, then there shouldn't be too much of a delay that effects new accounts negatively.
hero member
Activity: 1400
Merit: 655
Bitcoin is achievement


This is the point. You can post anywhere, it will help to grow and learn.
Because many who are experienced, don't always go to the beginners' tab. So if you have a mining question, go to the mining tab, and so on. In these places you will find what you need.
Your right, because newbies are not limited to post to any board, because going different location of the community for conversations will enable them to have versatile knowledge, even i could remember when i was a newbie, i devoted my time to read across the boards in order to understand the concept of the community fully, and when this happens i started earning merit, so in summary a  new user are meant to penetrate to any board  and acclimatize with their subjects so that when making a topic he/ her will know the exact board to Post it.
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