Topic: Is there ever a case where the government could legally steal? - page 2. (Read 3003 times)

I got an idea. Howabout we get a legit protection company to take over, instead? You know, one that doesn't use threats to get their money?

If you weren't paying tax to the current protection racket another one would move in and take the role through invasion and war.

Im sure if the US gov became weak enough someone else would gladly take over for them. Perhaps the russians 

To say nothing of the Chinese.

You just described the u.s. federal government

The only option at this point is http://www.seasteading.org

OK, so I do enjoy that little freedom I have. I moved away from my home country. I am using bitcoins as much as it is reasonable. But I still have significant issues with the status quo.

1. Somebody owns me. And I see no way to set myself free. I can never be sure if a bunch of crazy politicians decide they need to impose their laws on me even when I am abroad. I can never be sure if they decide not to renew my passport. I believe human ownership is wrong, and it has to be stopped. There has to be a way to renounce all citizenship, if needed, and become a citizen of nowhere.
2. I'd like to have private property. Real private property, a place where I can set up my own rules, instead of following the rules set up by the government. The current system does not allow that, mainly for the reason that people are not used to this much freedom, they see it as something alien, and resort to familiar collectivist thinking they have been taught throughout their entire lives.

I am a realist. I realize these two issues are unlikely to be resolved during my lifetime. But I still think that humanity will wake up sooner or later. I'd feel better if I could speed up this awakening as much as possible.

So, would you agree, in principle, that these are real issues? Do you feel comfortable being owned? Do you feel comfortable having no private property? Would you like this to be changed (I am not saying any real changes are possible in our lifetime, just curious)?

Govt can enable "legal appropriation" (thief) of anything, anytime.. It's just a law being created..
Laws do not solves problems, they just path problems, often in an unfair way !

If you agree that you can do anything you want on what you clearly demarcate and defend as your property in a universe where no higher authority has domain over your little corner of the world, then you implicitly agree that in our universe on Earth, a country can do anything it wants on a territory which it clearly demarcates and defends as its own and no higher authority has domain over that nation, then we're on the same page. Congratulations if you understand that.

And be glad that in a world which offers many nations to choose from, some are pretty damn good. So good, in fact, that you would be a fool to complain and wish for something significantly different, as others here in this forum do indeed do.

For example, some dimwitted nitwits in these forums start drooling at the notion of life on oil rigs, or life living in rubber tubes on floating icebergs. Imagine the freedoms afforded by such terrific locales! What's next? Life on some mind numbingly cold and lonely rock in the Kuiper Belt? Or how about some ice rock in the Oort Cloud?

Bottom line - you don't know how good you actually have it.

Care to reread my reply instead of throwing insults?

It's a question of how you understand property rights. You are saying, you have property rights in your household, and, therefore, you can set up any rules that you like. I agree.

Now, you are saying that by analogy, government can set up any rules on the territory it is controlling, and on its citizens anywhere in the world. By analogy, I assume that government has property rights on everything that's on its territory, and on its citizens.

The main argument in your analogy is related to private property. You cannot omit this argument when transferring your reasoning from analogy to the thing you are analogizing to. Isomorphism between analogy and what is being analogized to cannot include just the conclusions, it has to include the initial axioms and logical connections as well.

It seems funny at first, but living in a desert environment water rights are literally fighting words. I believe the state was Utah that just made it legal to collect a limited amount of rain water for personal use.

Other example are:

• eminent domain
• gold confiscation (a favorite example on bitcoin)
• "drug" money seizure
• safety deposit box seizures - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1222777/The-raid-rocked-Met-Why-gun-drugs-op-6-717-safety-deposit-boxes-cost-taxpayer-fortune.html
• Many would say, lax environmental practices are stealing from future generations

I'll refrain from saying "anytime they want to", but history has shown the frailness of "laws" when confronted with "a really good reason"

Cheers!

Is anyone here perfectly happy with their government, and paying them taxes (even if it's through withholding), and if so, what country are you from?

Hey, it still spends, for now.

No point. You'd only get paid in funny money.

Would be an interesting precedent, if you did.

When I was born noone asked me if I was OK with all the bullshit rules.
Even if they did, according to their own bullshit rules I couldn't "legally" say yes or no.
Should I sue my parents?

Most apologists for the State do that. They talk about how horrible it would be to not have one by describing the worst characteristics of the State.

You sound like those are two different things...

To save others the search, this is the Sir John to which he was referring. (There are several, all contemporaries, so it can be confusing.)

The original question reminds me of the fact that never in history has treason against any government ever succeeded.

To learn why this is so, ask Sir. John Harington (1561-1612).

Man, this thread is deep.