Isn’t KYC anti-ethical to Bitcoin?

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Quote from: 95Bolu on December 09, 2021, 06:01:46 AM

When i first heard about bitcoin, one of the selling points then was the pseudo anonymity. But as of recently, it is hard to purchase any crypto without encountering a form of KYC.

I’m just curious of everyone’s thought on this.

It's hard but not impossible. The reason why almost every exchange requires KYC, is because of fierce government regulations. After all, the government wants to keep track of what people do with Bitcoin. They justify their actions by saying that they're preventing money laundering and terrorist financing. But we all know their true intentions. Unfortunately, the average person will be forced to provide ID documents to a centralized exchange since it's the easiest way to get access to Bitcoin. Decentralized exchanges, P2P trading platforms, and atomic swaps don't require KYC, but they're somewhat-complicated to use.

While KYC is "anti-ethical" to Bitcoin (since it brings back the middleman), the decentralized and open source design of Blockchain tech allows anyone to easily circumvent/bypass government restrictions. All that matters is that Bitcoin remains decentralized and censorship-resistant. As long as it stays that way, governments will find a hard time trying to regulate it. Just my thoughts Grin

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Quote from: 95Bolu on December 09, 2021, 06:01:46 AM

When i first heard about bitcoin, one of the selling points then was the pseudo anonymity. But as of recently, it is hard to purchase any crypto without encountering a form of KYC.

I’m just curious of everyone’s thought on this.

The orginial theme and concept of bitcoin was to provide the anonymity but all humans are not perfect. There are people who try to take advantage of this and may involve in illegal activities. In order to minize the risk, the centralized exchangess have no option but to enforce kyc.
Yes, many people dont like this and have no bad intent also, but we have to comply to this kyc requirement.

LUCKMCFLY

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I do consider that it is antithetical, because BTC was created so that neither governments nor banks would get their hands on our money, our money in the traditional economy has always been managed by banks and for this reason is that now there are so many problems with the governments seeking regulations for BTC and crypto, this is something that should not be allowed because there are many ways to bypass prohibitions and governments and banks always think about making money just for themselves and do not think about the situation of each person, I am particularly in favor of Each person has the right to their money and the amount they want to move from one place to another. I think that was one of Satoshi's premises.

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Quote from: fzkto on February 10, 2022, 11:39:27 PM

Bitcoin was invented as a transfer of value between people directly, without the involvement of a third part. That is, if bitcoin is considered money, then in such a system you do not need a bank to make payments. Any bank requires proof of identity. In a bitcoin system, you don't need a bank from the beginning. So there is no need for a KYC.

We can transfer bitcoin from wallet to wallet many times, but when it comes to making payments for goods or services, given that direct payment with bitcoin is not possible everywhere, we will need to transfer funds to fiat. And for this, it is necessary to use cryptocurrency exchanges and the banking system so that the amount in fiat goes to our bank account. States must fight money laundering and terrorist financing. In any case, demanding in this case the identification of users, they refer to this. Therefore, whether we like it or not, if we want the legalization of cryptocurrency, we will have to put up with KYC requirements when fiat comes into contact with cryptocurrency.

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You are only going to be asked for KYC when you’re making use of all these custodial wallets and you are trying to buy Bitcoin. I do use some of those custodial wallets and the requirements to make use of them are usually too much, and when you try to make a purchase you’re also going to be required to do another registration if their supplier is a third party website.

But, when you’re making use of decentralized wallets or exchanges, you don’t need any form of that and the buying and selling is usually straight to the point. But the good thing about these centralized exchanges and wallets is that you’re protected as a user, which is unlike decentralized ones where you might be taking some risks.

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Bitcoin was invented as a transfer of value between people directly, without the involvement of a third part. That is, if bitcoin is considered money, then in such a system you do not need a bank to make payments. Any bank requires proof of identity. In a bitcoin system, you don't need a bank from the beginning. So there is no need for a KYC.

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Kyc is actually one of the things bitcoin came to battle;
But bitcoin it's didn't come without his own problems;
It came with advanced scam and lots more;
Then kyc poss to be fighting scammers;
But it has been proven to be most cases a scam itself;
Then, it all goes down to what the bitcoin user wants;
You can chose to avoid kyc and still use bitcoin.

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Quote from: 95Bolu on December 09, 2021, 06:01:46 AM

When i first heard about bitcoin, one of the selling points then was the pseudo anonymity. But as of recently, it is hard to purchase any crypto without encountering a form of KYC.

I’m just curious of everyone’s thought on this.

You can still use and combine some decentralized exchanges, social media platforms ,mixers, even some gambling sites and P2P in order to get the crypto without doing the KYC but the process will be complex and not easily understood by a layman or the one who is new in the crypto.

There is pressure from the governments to make the KYC mandatory and hence the famous centralized exchanges won't allow you to buy bitcoin or make P2P transactions without KYC.

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Quote from: 95Bolu on December 09, 2021, 06:01:46 AM

When i first heard about bitcoin, one of the selling points then was the pseudo anonymity. But as of recently, it is hard to purchase any crypto without encountering a form of KYC.

I’m just curious of everyone’s thought on this.

One of the reasons bitcoin attracted many people at the beginning of its release was because bitcoin was anonymous, but along with the increasing popularity of bitcoin, it is also possible that one day bitcoin's original anonymity will also fade because regulators issued by each country force us bitcoin users to reveal his real identity (KYC) so like it or not of course we are forced to do this so that bitcoin is legalized in our country.

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KYC is like the antithesis to bitcoin on the aspect of privacy. It defeats the purpose of being pseudoanonymous, although of course it's a compromise we 'had' to accept if we want bitcoin to get legitimate in the eyes of the government. We can still support and promote decentralized exchanges, although it will need a lot more volume and attention, plus more beneficial features that can be better than on centralized exchanges.

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Quote from: Slow death on February 07, 2022, 05:12:10 AM

I think there is a serious flaw in this KYC issue, the flaw is as follows:

if we look at KYC we realize that only customers deliver documents to anonymous sites with anonymous owners and it is not known if our documents will be safe or not. this flaw hurts customers

How you could say exchanges are anonymous sites!
In what way you could say the owners of the exchange are anonymous!

Most people use Binance, Bittrex, Coinbase exchanges for trading, the owner of these websites is not anonymous at all, everyone knows them.
Another issue is that Bitcoin has not yet been fully adopted, and no government would want to legalize Bitcoin without KYC. so everyone should not oppose government work, for the sake of adoption. You know, anyone can do Bitcoin transactions anonymously without KYC if he has little knowledge about Bitcoin, so we shouldn't oppose the work of Govt.

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Quote from: 95Bolu on December 09, 2021, 06:01:46 AM

When i first heard about bitcoin, one of the selling points then was the pseudo anonymity. But as of recently, it is hard to purchase any crypto without encountering a form of KYC.

I’m just curious of everyone’s thought on this.

Bitcoin ifself is anonymous, but centralized exchange are not. They need legalization to keep opened because there are a rules from their government. I think we user don't have much other options beside use decentralized exchange, or maybe P2P, so i think if people don't like to do KYC, they still can buy or sell their coins as long they use trustful decentralized exchanges.

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Quote from: Slow death on February 07, 2022, 05:12:10 AM

I think there is a serious flaw in this KYC issue, the flaw is as follows:

if we look at KYC we realize that only customers deliver documents to anonymous sites with anonymous owners and it is not known if our documents will be safe or not. this flaw hurts customers

Uuhm, anonymous sites with anonymous owners? A truly centralized exchanges doesn’t have anonymous owners, when you go to their website you would see a page where they display the team that are working in the exchange. You can take Coinbase as an example, they are not hiding anything about their team and their location, they list their top team members and also their CEO so that you get to know them, and also where their office is located.

This is also the same with other centralized exchanges and wallets that I know. Anyone that is anonymous and showing it's team, then it’s likely that they just want to steak your information.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: SteveHankse on February 07, 2022, 01:03:58 AM

With these centralised exchanges, your bitcoins are somewhat protected and less prone to attacks and scams.

Centralized exchanges have been responsible for the vast majority of stolen bitcoin and stolen data over the years. They are provably the most risky place to leave your coins.

Quote from: KaliLinux on February 07, 2022, 05:13:48 AM

I know there are a lot of their places as you have also mentioned that we do KYCs and they don't have a problem with does so why is KYC for Bitcoin a problem if we are not trying to continuously make it look illegal.

Once again, refusing KYC and/or wanting to maintain some financial privacy does not mean you are doing anything illegal. Believing that privacy is a crime is buying in to government propaganda used to create surveillance states.

Lots of people don't make a fuss with KYC in the fiat sector because it is impossible to interact with the fiat sector without KYC. You cannot open a bank account, take out a loan, or obtain any sort of credit, without completing KYC. You cannot work most jobs without having a KYC-ed bank account in which to receive your pay. We don't like it, but it is necessary if you want to use fiat. However, none of this is necessary with bitcoin. You can open a wallet, buy/sell/trade bitcoin, earn bitcoin, hold bitcoin, spend bitcoin, swap bitcoin, do anything at all you want with bitcoin without ever completing KYC. KYC is completely unnecessary and is being forced upon us by governments which want to spy on you and track your behavior.

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Quote from: davis196 on December 09, 2021, 07:07:35 AM

Quote from: 95Bolu on December 09, 2021, 06:01:46 AM

When i first heard about bitcoin, one of the selling points then was the pseudo anonymity. But as of recently, it is hard to purchase any crypto without encountering a form of KYC.

I’m just curious of everyone’s thought on this.

What do you mean by "anti-enthical"?Can you elaborate more on this term?
KYC regulations apply to all financial services.Which government regulations are "ethical" and which are "anti-enthical"?The law is what it is and we have to follow the rules,even though some of rules are BS.
KYC is required when you open a bank account or a forex trading account in fiat currency.
We all want the crypto industry to be viewed by the government as a legit and legal industry.
If we want mass crypto adoption and legalization,this is the price we have to pay.
If you are complaining about not being anonymous,then why don't you use you a privacy coin like Monero.

Just my point as well. I know there are a lot of their places as you have also mentioned that we do KYCs and they don't have a problem with does so why is KYC for Bitcoin a problem if we are not trying to continuously make it look illegal. I personally don't have any problem doing KYC plus everyone has their own opinion about this and I believe that is why some people still see it as something they don't want to invest in.

Slow death

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I think there is a serious flaw in this KYC issue, the flaw is as follows:

if we look at KYC we realize that only customers deliver documents to anonymous sites with anonymous owners and it is not known if our documents will be safe or not. this flaw hurts customers

Kakmakr

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In the early days when Bitcoin and other Crypto currencies were still illegal in most countries, hardcore supporters of Crypto currencies believed that it was crucial to protect their Crypto identity to stay Pseudo anonymous to hide from these governments.

We should also note that Fiat (Cash) is also Pseudo anonymous, so it is not something extraordinary that are only applicable to Crypto currencies. We (Crypto community) are only asking to get the same level of Pseudo anonymity, as people using Fiat (Cash) ..but the third parties are the ones destroying people's Pseudo anonymity. Angry

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Quote from: SteveHankse on February 07, 2022, 01:03:58 AM

Yes, it is true that traders need to verify KYC before trading with crypto exchanges. And it is a mandatory step implemented by most of the crypto exchanges. I think safety is the concern here. With these centralised exchanges, your bitcoins are somewhat protected and less prone to attacks and scams.

Attacks and scams is your least concern when you are pertaining for KYC requirements from exchange. This is strictly implemented so that Exchange can trace you in case you deposit money from illegal transaction. Same scenario when the time hacker of a Dapps exploit the pool funds and hacker deposit all the hacked money on a centralized exchange which result for revealing his identity and locked the exchange account. Due to many illegal activity in crypto, Regulators imposed KYC on exchange to still regulate it despite crypto being decentralized in a sense.

SteveHankse

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Yes, it is true that traders need to verify KYC before trading with crypto exchanges. And it is a mandatory step implemented by most of the crypto exchanges. I think safety is the concern here. With these centralised exchanges, your bitcoins are somewhat protected and less prone to attacks and scams.

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KYC Is anti-ethical to bitcoin and harmful to your own privacy, one of the many things whose value you appreciate only when it is gone, probably forever, as it is very difficult to gain it back.

Long time ago, I translated in Italian a good long post by the Italian fellow bitcoiner Giacomo Zucco on this subject.

Have a read here:
A Treatise on Bitcoin and Privacy

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