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Topic: Isn’t KYC anti-ethical to Bitcoin? - page 3. (Read 835 times)

sr. member
Activity: 1694
Merit: 299
December 11, 2021, 07:02:21 AM
#71
When i first heard about bitcoin, one of the selling points then was the pseudo anonymity. But as of recently, it is hard to purchase any crypto without encountering a form of KYC.
The truth is that a lot of people don’t even care about privacy these days. As long as it is easy for them, they’re just going to make use of that wallet or exchange. Someone have even asked me once why I’m worried about privacy, stating that the only people who has to worry about privacy are people who engage in illicit business. They’re forgetting that sometimes you also have to be careful and maintain your privacy online, not because you are doing anything bad, but because it is important to an extent.

Your identity can be stolen and used for whatever that you would least imagine. So that’s why it’s very good to maintain privacy. People who try to stay private are not doing so just because they’re doing something bad, some of them just need their Peace of Mind and nothing else.
legendary
Activity: 2898
Merit: 1823
December 11, 2021, 06:37:20 AM
#70
Yes, it absolutely is.

Look at what the whitepaper says about privacy:
The necessity to announce all transactions publicly precludes this method, but privacy can still be maintained by breaking the flow of information in another place: by keeping public keys anonymous. The public can see that someone is sending an amount to someone else, but without information linking the transaction to anyone.

KYC prevents this entirely. You cannot keep your public keys (and by extension, your addresses and transactions) anonymous when a centralized exchange controls all your keys, knows exactly who you are, and hands that data over to massive blockchain analysis companies.


I believe it’s debatable. It’s the centralized exchange’s right to ask for identification for a person to use their service, and if you don’t want to give it, then you have the freedom to use another service. If this is the current system we have, we should have the tools to send our UTXOs somewhere to reset, and increase the anon-set. cAPSLOCK has a way. Cool
sr. member
Activity: 826
Merit: 263
December 10, 2021, 06:30:03 PM
#69
they always follow what the government told them.
True. Most centralized exchanges use KYC because it is one of the regulations made by the government. The government wants to ensure that there are no misuses of money through exchanges like money laundering or fraudulence. I think they don't do a bad thing here.

There are still some good exchanges who are not requiring KYC.
Do you mean popular DEX? Yes, those are trusted exchanges that have a good reputation.

But we can't deny the fact that maybe in the near future, we can no longer see exchanges who are not asking for KYC as most of the exchanges nowadays are becoming centralized.
I believe there will be always DEX, they won't ask for KYC. There are many people who prefer to trade in DEX. With good demand for DEX, it will survive well for a long time.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 7340
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December 10, 2021, 04:55:22 PM
#68
I don't think, I'm close-minded in my speech?
Sorry, I didn't formulate my sayings properly; your speech was as good as it should. What I meant is that people like knowing they're free of obligations. When they keep the keys they feel responsible.

It's also due to this blind hunt of profit you said:
It finally shows people are interested only in speculation and not really in the ideology behind Bitcoin.



It's about convenience, yes maybe, but it has a cost.
I think it's rather the protection they feel when they use a popular exchange. Sure it's the convenience too, but try convincing a get-rich-quicker and here-only-for-the-profits, hashtag to_the_moon guy to transact without this, significant for him, intermediary.

I don't know if I shall say they're lazy, don't take the time, or are not well informed but you can truly purchase BTC directly peer to peer.
Pure speculation, but for the overwhelming majority I suspect it's all three.

Honestly, people talk a lot about decentralization and privacy, but they're the first to use centralized platforms and give them their personal documents. (Isn't it funny?)
Funny or tragic?
hero member
Activity: 3066
Merit: 629
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December 10, 2021, 04:28:37 PM
#67
Yes.
It's all due to government restrictions and the exchanges are just following what the government mandates them. As mentioned, you will still be able to find some ways of doing it anonymously. But are people would care about what's being proud of by the early bitcoin folks about anonymity? What matters to these days especially to the new investors is bitcoin itself is an investment and that's it.
Right. Since they are centralized, so they are bound to follow the rules made by the government. For me, if its just for security reasons, then i think there's no problem about that. But knowing that we are giving our personal identities, then the essence of turning into bitcoin so we can be anonymous will already be lost. Or does it really matter nowadays? Maybe for early adopters here, yes it is, but for newcomers i doubt if they are still thinking or even affected by it. As long as we can gain crypto, well that's all that matters.
Well, that doesn't really matter a lot to the newbies. They're only thinking that it won't matter to them and it is completely fine to submit kyc to avoid the hassle.
That's why you'll just see everyone does to comply with the kyc since it's needed to trade and to upgrade some limits as well.
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 1043
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December 10, 2021, 06:22:13 AM
#66
When i first heard about bitcoin, one of the selling points then was the pseudo anonymity. But as of recently, it is hard to purchase any crypto without encountering a form of KYC.

I’m just curious of everyone’s thought on this.
There are DEX'es that is under Ethereum which isn't require KYC to have access on it. Unfortunately Bitcoin doesn't have anything and we can't access it thru DEX'es as they aren't supporting it.

Anti-ethical or not, it doesn't matter anymore I think. What's important is people will have access to Bitcoin and other cryptos even if it costs their information. Lets just take Binance as an example. They are requiring KYC to their users so that they can use their exchange. People don't care about their personal information as long as they will have access into it. Either way, if you don't want to share your personal information then you still have a choice not to.
hero member
Activity: 3178
Merit: 977
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December 10, 2021, 06:02:30 AM
#65
It is. BTC itself isn't 100% anonymous honestly speaking, but you can ramp up the anonymity factor through various methods. For example, P2P exchanges like LocalBitcoins don't require any form of KYC(Upto a certain limit).

It's still better to just comply instead with these exchanges terms instead of using non-popular exchanges where the chance of getting scammed or being treated unprofessionally has a high chance.
That depends. If you want complete anonymity, it is still possible to trade crypto without submitting KYC through exchanges like LocalBitcoins etc. If not, it's better to comply with centralised exchange requirements as you mentioned.
member
Activity: 938
Merit: 13
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December 10, 2021, 05:57:22 AM
#64
When i first heard about bitcoin, one of the selling points then was the pseudo anonymity. But as of recently, it is hard to purchase any crypto without encountering a form of KYC.

I’m just curious of everyone’s thought on this.
100% to the point said, KYC is already everywhere, it seems that soon we will buy altcoins through global identity checks. Therefore, the crypto community is more fond of decentralized exchanges, even from the point of view of their personal data, no one wants to provide them even when purchasing ordinary goods in "stone" shops for fiat money.
jr. member
Activity: 916
Merit: 1
December 10, 2021, 05:40:31 AM
#63
I can't decide. Bitcoin itself isn't fully anonymous neither. So when you say if KYC is non-ethical to bitcoin, It don't have a clear answer. If you said monero instead of bitcoin then I would say "yes" without a doubt.
Noncustodial wallets, mixing or privacy coins. The important steps are how to broadcast your transactions. Wallet itself can not protect your privacy or anonymity.

[Guide] Decent mixing methods

Quote
Regardless of the project though, I don't like KYC in crypto. Crypto isn't something that needs a government support. It is not a bank. So KYC makes no sense.
Like or dislike, we will have to accept because more exchanges will be required to implement KYC by government command.
More, but not all of them. Check out Crypton exchange from Utopia p2p. At first it provided only inner coins: privacy coin Crypton and anonymous stablecoin U USD, but they added Monero recently https://crp.is/exchange/xmr_usdt And as it's a decentralized no KYC exchange, no one could force it to change any rules and no one can block it.
legendary
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December 10, 2021, 05:37:58 AM
#62
When i first heard about bitcoin, one of the selling points then was the pseudo anonymity. But as of recently, it is hard to purchase any crypto without encountering a form of KYC.

I’m just curious of everyone’s thought on this.
Indeed, it is no way ethical to demand identity information from those merely wanting to dispose of their own hard-earned money. It always makes you think that money sitting in your bank account is not actually yours, but somebody else's who has control over you. Money is a system of control, which means the admins of this system can do whatever they want because they command the core of the system. They decide who may enter, who may transact, with whom one may transact, what amount of money one may move, what fee one should pay to make a transaction, on what things one may spend money, etc. In short, you have to ask permission every time you wish to interact with money. Someone gave people completely non-governmental money of a permissionless decentralized nature. But people have gotten so used to the system of control that they continue to ask permission to interact with money.
full member
Activity: 2520
Merit: 214
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December 10, 2021, 05:26:21 AM
#61
You can still trade BTC with anonymity, it all depends on what you prefer. There are so many exchanges around and most of them are centralized that require KYC. If you are ready to compromise on your privacy then you can join these centralized exchanges. But yes I do agree that most common source of BTC trading is through these exchanges.

I don't know if some known exchanges offer anonymity right now especially those who used to be decentralized are now has changed their point of view because the government force them to do so. However, there are few exchanges out there that still exist offer you their service without getting some KYC from you. They are those exchanges that give you a limit if you didn't pass any KYC to them but right now it seems to me like they also getting unto this kind of exchange and they too are now adopting the policy of making obliged the KYC of their users before they can use their service. just like what happened to Binance and other known exchanges that haven't been like that before.
The exchangers has no option but to follow , even if how they wanted to keep their users anonymous but if the government oblige them then they will tend to follow.
this is how the the market and the service act now, choose only the exchange you think will will favor your needs.
I use exchange now the ask KYC and  also use some that needs  no KYC for my own ways of trading.
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1083
December 10, 2021, 05:13:22 AM
#60
When i first heard about bitcoin, one of the selling points then was the pseudo anonymity. But as of recently, it is hard to purchase any crypto without encountering a form of KYC.

I’m just curious of everyone’s thought on this.

There's no decentralized exchange where we can settle things like buying or selling instantly with our fiat. We need to start from scratch and that's what centralized exchanges do. KYC will now be a part of our crypto journey since in the first place, using them gives convenience to us users.

It's still better to just comply instead with these exchanges terms instead of using non-popular exchanges where the chance of getting scammed or being treated unprofessionally has a high chance.
hero member
Activity: 2268
Merit: 588
You own the pen
December 10, 2021, 04:48:38 AM
#59
You can still trade BTC with anonymity, it all depends on what you prefer. There are so many exchanges around and most of them are centralized that require KYC. If you are ready to compromise on your privacy then you can join these centralized exchanges. But yes I do agree that most common source of BTC trading is through these exchanges.

I don't know if some known exchanges offer anonymity right now especially those who used to be decentralized are now has changed their point of view because the government force them to do so. However, there are few exchanges out there that still exist offer you their service without getting some KYC from you. They are those exchanges that give you a limit if you didn't pass any KYC to them but right now it seems to me like they also getting unto this kind of exchange and they too are now adopting the policy of making obliged the KYC of their users before they can use their service. just like what happened to Binance and other known exchanges that haven't been like that before.
legendary
Activity: 3122
Merit: 1398
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December 10, 2021, 04:26:53 AM
#58
When i first heard about bitcoin, one of the selling points then was the pseudo anonymity. But as of recently, it is hard to purchase any crypto without encountering a form of KYC.

I’m just curious of everyone’s thought on this.

Technically, yes.

But since people have no choice, in most cases, we rely on a third-party service to either buy or sell our cryptos. Somehow, for these businesses to run a legit service, they need to comply with the government's policy and KYC is one of the mandated terms they need to ask their users.

We still have P2P or DEXes out there however, it's no doubt that purchasing crypto in a centralized platform is the most convenient way*.
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 18711
December 10, 2021, 04:22:50 AM
#57
Yes, it absolutely is.

Look at what the whitepaper says about privacy:
The necessity to announce all transactions publicly precludes this method, but privacy can still be maintained by breaking the flow of information in another place: by keeping public keys anonymous. The public can see that someone is sending an amount to someone else, but without information linking the transaction to anyone.

KYC prevents this entirely. You cannot keep your public keys (and by extension, your addresses and transactions) anonymous when a centralized exchange controls all your keys, knows exactly who you are, and hands that data over to massive blockchain analysis companies.
hero member
Activity: 2604
Merit: 816
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December 10, 2021, 04:21:45 AM
#56
When i first heard about bitcoin, one of the selling points then was the pseudo anonymity. But as of recently, it is hard to purchase any crypto without encountering a form of KYC.

I’m just curious of everyone’s thought on this.
That is because you are trying to use third-party services that the government already watched and want to know who their customer is. If you do not deal with any of that third parties or keep your bitcoin in your wallet or use DEX or use a third party that does not need KYC, you do not have to send any document of yours to them. But as many of us use our bitcoin to make more money from the exchange or buy something from the online or offline store, that makes us fill KYC and follow the rules. I do not mind doing KYC but I will search for third-party services with good reputations so I do not have to worry about the worst thing that can come anytime.
sr. member
Activity: 2030
Merit: 356
December 10, 2021, 03:27:55 AM
#55
When i first heard about bitcoin, one of the selling points then was the pseudo anonymity. But as of recently, it is hard to purchase any crypto without encountering a form of KYC.

I’m just curious of everyone’s thought on this.

Yes Bitcoin was designed keeping in focus the decentralized and anonymity factor in mind, but due to the government rules and regulations, we can only purchase crypto after kyc on the p2p sites. The sites are boumd to perform the kyc because they think its a way to prevent money laundering.
legendary
Activity: 2898
Merit: 1823
December 10, 2021, 03:22:02 AM
#54
KYC is not a bad thing. If you don't want to use services that require it then you don't.
Depending on where you live there are plenty that do not require it.
There are exchanges for other coins, ways of getting cash, gift cards and just about anything else that do not require your info.

IF on the other hand you want a regulated environment with more rules and security, then yes you are going to wind up with KYC.
I can go to localcryptos.com and get cash for my BTC, and hope everything goes smoothly (it usually does) OR I can go to Gemini give up my personal info and know that it will go smoothly.
The choice is up to you.

-Dave


I too believe KYC is not a bad thing, until it can be used against you. But I don’t mind KYC if we can use an app to reset, then increase Bitcoin’s anon-set, as a KYC preventive mechanism.

If only we can use an off-chain network to do that.
legendary
Activity: 2660
Merit: 1074
December 10, 2021, 02:12:34 AM
#53
When i first heard about bitcoin, one of the selling points then was the pseudo anonymity. But as of recently, it is hard to purchase any crypto without encountering a form of KYC.
Sure it bothers a lot of people, but sometimes you can’t avoid them because they are just everywhere. Bitcoin is meant to be a currency that you would be using and not worry about your privacy at all, but now all these big exchanges (or should I say the cabals of cryptocurrency?) have finally turned it to something else that is totally off, now we are heading down a route that we were not supposed to be at first.

For long, I haven’t been making use of major exchanges when I’m buying or selling cryptocurrencies, rather I have been making use of local exchanges (peer-to-peer) and I have been totally okay with it, because I get what I need.
legendary
Activity: 3080
Merit: 1500
December 10, 2021, 12:07:33 AM
#52
When i first heard about bitcoin, one of the selling points then was the pseudo anonymity. But as of recently, it is hard to purchase any crypto without encountering a form of KYC.

I’m just curious of everyone’s thought on this.

Yes, it is! KYC is super unethical for bitcoin. But it is hard for a common people to buy bitcoin without going through KYC verification unfortunately. That's why we are seeing a sudden rise in SWAP systems and DEXs. But again, you can't use fiat with them so you need to have KYC details to enter into the crypto market in general.

It's unfortunate buy it's a sad reality. This decentralized crypto market is flooded with multiple centralized exchanges who are bound to comply with the government regulations.
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