Topic: Isn't rule 27 outdated? - page 2. (Read 838 times)
I guess, I'm also in favor of the members who say the rule isn't outdated, the reason is simple, machine generated translations can't match that of human written words. I know translation services have improved their translation models to very advanced levels but still they can't always create 100% grammar error free translations and I believe for some languages the machine generated translations might be 98% correct in grammar while in some languages the generated translation might have different meaning.
I find it hard to believe that a guy like you who knows so much about the forum would say that. Does this ring any bells?
If it is spam it already breaks rule 1. You don't need another rule.
And on the other hand, can you tell me how you are going to enforce rule 27?
How can you prove that the following has been written using an automated translator?
Vergeet het zoeken naar geldwisselaars! Gebruik BestChange!
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1. No zero or low value, pointless or uninteresting posts or threads.
If it is spam it already breaks rule 1. You don't need another rule.
And on the other hand, can you tell me how you are going to enforce rule 27?
How can you prove that the following has been written using an automated translator?
Vergeet het zoeken naar geldwisselaars! Gebruik BestChange!
true, i agree with you, rule number 1 is the one that is enough and necessary
no spam, no useless comments, this rule is respected even if you use the translator, what's wrong with it as in my case now?
so i support you request, give priority to rule number 1 and the other accessories, if i understand correctly of couse
I'm tempted to report the one on the Spanish board but since we don't have an active moderator I hesitate cause it might take another month.
Just report it. There's no Mod for the Dutch board either. What's the worst that can happen? A "Bad" report? I see those as "testing the limits of reporting".Quote
Ehh, no. Rule 27 is not about whether it was created by humans or not, it is about whether it was translated by humans or not.
If someone translates a post, he creates a new post. legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1565
The first decentralized crypto betting platform
The Report is marked Good and the posts have been deleted. They also "lost" another local topic. Modlog:
I'm tempted to report the one on the Spanish board but since we don't have an active moderator I hesitate cause it might take another month.
If it would have been created by a human, it wouldn't have been deleted. This is exactly what "Rule 27" is for.
Ehh, no. Rule 27 is not about whether it was created by humans or not, it is about whether it was translated by humans or not.
If the content is GPT chat-created diarrhea it breaks rule 1, not rule 27, and in my experience moderators mark a report as ‘good’ even if you make a mistake in reporting it, for example if you report a thread in BD to be moved to Economics and it ends up moved to Speculation.
I can't read this without feeling I'm reading generic chatbot diarrhea. I've reported the posts.
The Report is marked Good and the posts have been deleted. They also "lost" another local topic. Modlog:Code:
Remove topic: Nu behöver du inte längre leta efter växlingstjänster! Använd BestChange! in topic #5510255 by member #1073450
Remove topic: Vergeet het zoeken naar geldwisselaars! Gebruik BestChange! in topic #5510252 by member #1073450
Remove topic: Vergeet het zoeken naar geldwisselaars! Gebruik BestChange! in topic #5510252 by member #1073450
Here I think you're agreeing with me, if that is generic chatbot diarrhea the problem is not whether it is translated by a human or not, the problem is the content.
If it would have been created by a human, it wouldn't have been deleted. This is exactly what "Rule 27" is for. The problem is: mods are very lenient. If they only delete the post when reported by a native speaker, many other translated posts will slip through and stay. 
...I don't think it's hard to identify translated by tools because it should be different than native writers. You may still report if you find something like this.
Exactly, in my local board there are some few non-native users who did like this but i kept it as good as their post serve information about scams and updates of a certain service e.g. "freewallet". But some exceptions if the users is just promoting something and do only google translate for them to post it on the local board.
I don't see enough reason why those rules should be outdated. That rule discourages spamming on local boards by using translation tools even if you aren't a native speaker. If there are no rules, then I might make posts on a lot of local boards by using tools. So those rules prevent us from doing so. I don't think it's hard to identify translated by tools because it should be different than native writers. You may still report if you find something like this.
legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1565
The first decentralized crypto betting platform
I find it hard to believe that a guy like you who knows so much about the forum would say that.
Lol.I hope you're amused because you're flattered, because seriously if I think of one forum member as the most knowledgeable (or one of the most knowledgeable) about how the forum works it's you.
Usually, when an ICO spammer wanted to translate topics, they'd ask Bitcointalk users to post translations.
That would happen in the past. Nowadays you have a translation just like a human translation or better done in a few seconds and without paying.
I find it hard to believe BestChange paid users from outside the forum for so many translations, especially since they all seem to have the exact same quality.
Mee too.
In this case:
<...>
I can't read this without feeling I'm reading generic chatbot diarrhea. I've reported the posts.
<...>
I can't read this without feeling I'm reading generic chatbot diarrhea. I've reported the posts.
Here I think you're agreeing with me, if that is generic chatbot diarrhea the problem is not whether it is translated by a human or not, the problem is the content.
I find it hard to believe that a guy like you who knows so much about the forum would say that.
Lol.Als u uw tijd belangrijk vindt, moet u weten hoelang het duurt om een geldwisselaar met acceptabele wisselkoersen te kiezen. Wij bieden u aan dat te vergeten en uw tijd aan iets leuks te besteden. Volg onze website en kies simpelweg het valutapaar. Het maakt niet uit wat voor soort valuta u wilt – contanten, kaarten, digitale valuta – wij accepteren alle populaire vormen van geld!
Zorg dat het zo eenvoudig is!
Zorg dat het zo eenvoudig is!
📌 Een van de belangrijkste factoren voor de betrouwbaarheid en snelheid van geldwisselaars is de manier waarop ze bestellingen verwerken. Dit kan automatisch, semi-automatisch of handmatig zijn.
We zullen u enkele belangrijke punten vertellen die u kunnen helpen bij het kiezen van een geldwisselaar via onze dienst.
👉 Het geautomatiseerde verwerkingsprincipe is dat de geldwisselaar werkt volgens voorgedefinieerde sjablonen. Hierdoor wordt de geldomwisseling zeer snel uitgevoerd en houdt de geldwisselaar zich alleen bezig met gebruikersondersteuning.
👉 Bij de semi-automatische methode betaalt de gebruiker voor de bestelling, waarna de geldwisselaar handmatig de ontvangst van het geld bevestigt door de bestelling over te dragen aan het geautomatiseerde transactiesysteem en wordt het geld bijgeschreven op de betaalwijze van de klant. De snelheid van de geldoverschrijving hangt af van de bank of de werking van het blockchainnetwerk.
👉 De handmatige modus houdt in dat de geldwisselaar elke aanvraag handmatig verwerkt. Deze stuurt ook geld naar de opgegeven betaalwijze. Meestal is dit een langer proces, dat wel een dag kan duren.
📍 Om snel uw weg te vinden en de juiste manier te kiezen om bestellingen te verwerken, let u op onze symbolen naast de naam van de geldwisselaars. Als u merkt dat de informatie niet juist is, laat het ons dan weten.
I can't read this without feeling I'm reading generic chatbot diarrhea. I've reported the posts. We zullen u enkele belangrijke punten vertellen die u kunnen helpen bij het kiezen van een geldwisselaar via onze dienst.
👉 Het geautomatiseerde verwerkingsprincipe is dat de geldwisselaar werkt volgens voorgedefinieerde sjablonen. Hierdoor wordt de geldomwisseling zeer snel uitgevoerd en houdt de geldwisselaar zich alleen bezig met gebruikersondersteuning.
👉 Bij de semi-automatische methode betaalt de gebruiker voor de bestelling, waarna de geldwisselaar handmatig de ontvangst van het geld bevestigt door de bestelling over te dragen aan het geautomatiseerde transactiesysteem en wordt het geld bijgeschreven op de betaalwijze van de klant. De snelheid van de geldoverschrijving hangt af van de bank of de werking van het blockchainnetwerk.
👉 De handmatige modus houdt in dat de geldwisselaar elke aanvraag handmatig verwerkt. Deze stuurt ook geld naar de opgegeven betaalwijze. Meestal is dit een langer proces, dat wel een dag kan duren.
📍 Om snel uw weg te vinden en de juiste manier te kiezen om bestellingen te verwerken, let u op onze symbolen naast de naam van de geldwisselaars. Als u merkt dat de informatie niet juist is, laat het ons dan weten.
legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1565
The first decentralized crypto betting platform
I always assumed this rule was meant to stop spam. It's not about the quality of the translation, it's because it's trivially easy to machine-translate a text into every possible language the forum has a local board (or thread) for. Having to pay many different people to make translations for each board is a huge barrier against spam.
Keep this rule
Keep this rule
I find it hard to believe that a guy like you who knows so much about the forum would say that. Does this ring any bells?
Quote
1. No zero or low value, pointless or uninteresting posts or threads.
If it is spam it already breaks rule 1. You don't need another rule.
And on the other hand, can you tell me how you are going to enforce rule 27?
How can you prove that the following has been written using an automated translator?
Vergeet het zoeken naar geldwisselaars! Gebruik BestChange!
.
now i understand. sorry, i didnt mean to be aggressive, its just that sometimes its not easy to understand other people languages because you are not a native speacker. I use Chrome which translates practically everything automatically and this is a great advantage for me because i am not a native English speacker. For me translating is necessary
I always assumed this rule was meant to stop spam. It's not about the quality of the translation, it's because it's trivially easy to machine-translate a text into every possible language the forum has a local board (or thread) for. Having to pay many different people to make translations for each board is a huge barrier against spam.
Keep this rule
Note that the English boards allow this, which can help non-English speakers when they have for instance technical questions about Bitcoin.
Keep this rule
Note that the English boards allow this, which can help non-English speakers when they have for instance technical questions about Bitcoin.
What I'm saying is that the rule is outdated but you haven't understood what it's about.
We can always enter the field, if the list of rules, are really official rules, or rules that the community itself has assumed as common.
I didn't know about this rule but i honestly dont like it.
I am not a native English speaker and i need help sometime with the translator, what's wrong with that?
I am not a native English speaker and i need help sometime with the translator, what's wrong with that?
What is wrong with what you say is not the rule, it is your interpretation of it.
What I'm saying is that the rule is outdated but you haven't understood what it's about.
Maybe there are other reasons behind making the rule which is somwhat unknown to many.
legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1565
The first decentralized crypto betting platform
I didn't know about this rule but i honestly dont like it.
I am not a native English speaker and i need help sometime with the translator, what's wrong with that?
I am not a native English speaker and i need help sometime with the translator, what's wrong with that?
What is wrong with what you say is not the rule, it is your interpretation of it.
What I'm saying is that the rule is outdated but you haven't understood what it's about.
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27. Using automated translation tools to post translated content in Local boards is not allowed.
I didn't know about this rule but i honestly dont like it.
I am not a native English speaker and i need help sometime with the translator, what's wrong with that?
In other words, we don't want people who can't see well because they use glasses. In the end, the translator is a help, he doesnt write for you.
In that case i would agree with you, but if you translate the words, what harm is there? nothing in my mind
The rule is not outdated, but it's probably targeting users who may try to spam every board using automated translation tools in order to increase their post count or farm accounts.
The rule is mostly against spammers and scammers who try to make their posts spreading around many boards or all boards in the forum, to increase exposure of their spam or scam.With users who are none of these (scammers, spammers), they can post in local boards with support of translation tools and I read discussions in the past about it. If you want to ask something from locals, but you are not good in that local language, you can use translation tools, and moderators won't ban you, locals won't report you too. Your purpose of doing this, is important and decide how locals and moderators will assess your posts and your account too.
With business representative like Best Change, I think they can do this, without a ban by the rule #27 enforcement.
The rule is not outdated, but it's probably targeting users who may try to spam every board using automated translation tools in order to increase their post count or farm accounts. BestChange as a service is simply creating announcements in different boards and then updating them, which is allowed
If this wasn't allowed, then there would be no point of other clauses in the forum rules such as this
If this wasn't allowed, then there would be no point of other clauses in the forum rules such as this
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12. No duplicate posting in multiple boards (except for re-posting topics in the local language boards if they're translated and re-posting marketplace topics in the altcoin boards if altcoins are accepted).
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Section: Local
All Local boards - Discussion of various topics in the appropriate language. Posting translated coin announcements is limited to languages that have their own section (a.k.a. dedicated board with sub-boards).
I have seen different services do such a thing before, and they would even run ANN translation bounty campaigns. Not in any one instant did I see the Moderators discouraging the habit All Local boards - Discussion of various topics in the appropriate language. Posting translated coin announcements is limited to languages that have their own section (a.k.a. dedicated board with sub-boards).
Besides, what is the point of the rule?
To discourage automatically translated content, even if it isn't heavily enforced. 
The point is this. The "rule" exists with the aim of preventing local boards from being used as global debates. For this, there are global boards.
On the other hand, I don't see this rule as something that makes it impossible for someone - on a one-off basis - to make a post in a local boards. Sometimes it can be useful to get specific clarification in one location. Now, it's one thing to do this punctually, and mention that you did it, it's another to do it with a routine.
I've done this myself, occasionally, but I always mentioned that I used a translator and put an English version. I have never felt any negative attitude from the members of this board.
Regarding the specific user/topic mentioned by the OP, I think even though he's using a translator, he's doing an ANN in the local language, I don't think that's exactly bad. I think it would make more sense to do this when the site has this language available.
In the case of my local board, I can say that, if I used a translator, the translation was very well done. But the most interesting point is that if you ask questions, they are answered in a clear and logical way. Therefore, even with translation, I see something very consistent and professional.
Besides, what is the point of the rule?
To discourage automatically translated content, even if it isn't heavily enforced. In fact, from time to time we get posts like this in our local board, I always report them to moderators and they get deleted every single time.
True, I also report it and they indeed get deleted asap, but I wonder if someone reports those threads that Op mentioned, would they get deleted since they are coming from an established member/business. Jump to: