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Topic: Isn't rule 27 outdated? - page 2. (Read 1191 times)

full member
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October 29, 2024, 05:54:42 AM
#43
Why you can't prove it? isn't native speaker know if the grammar off or use wrong words?

I am a native speaker and I am not able to prove it. It is written as if it had been done by a native speaker and considering the number of similar threads they have written, it is normal that they are translated with an automatic translator.
It’s good to know and say your a native speaker but still, don’t have a clear distinction on that which is done by a translator and that which is hand written or typed by a native speaker.
I might be new to this whole thing but my take is that, the rule actually applied when, it ain’t that good as it abuses the language for native speakers, leads to a lot of confusion and with the fact that, some words could differ in meaning based on the context they are being used.
These and many more could be what the rule 27 was create to avoid and with that been the case, the rule is subjective and could apply in obvious cases.
That means, it could be given a pass being that good, I think.
legendary
Activity: 1358
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The first decentralized crypto betting platform
October 29, 2024, 05:48:19 AM
#42
What most translators do today is take the text and run it through a machine translator and then review what the machine translator does. Depending on their desire and competence or how busy they are at the time they can do it better or worse, but in the end I decided a long time ago that unless it is absolutely necessary, I am not going to pay for a translation.
legendary
Activity: 1370
Merit: 2185
Buy/Sell crypto at BestChange
October 29, 2024, 05:12:28 AM
#41
We used the services of a translation agency Alconost. This is what we got.

Out of the BestChange staff, I speak basic Dutch, but my level is not sufficient enough to distinguish the translation quality.

I will take the issue to the translation agency.

Please tell, if this the reason why our topic in Swedish was removed?

If we do not get a proper response from Alconost, and you want to help us out with our translations, feel free to DM.

Thank you!

P.S. We reached out to the agency with the question, and they said they would initiate an investigation, would ask the text to be proofread by another linquist and get the comments from the translator.
legendary
Activity: 3290
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Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
October 29, 2024, 04:43:36 AM
#40
I don't understand... do you use a team of translators, or do you use machine translators?
They "used the services of a well-established translation agency". It could be the translation agency uses machine translation, which means they're basically scamming their customers. I recently read an article (in Dutch) in which translators complain their fees are pushed down by chatbot translations, and most of their jobs are degraded to checking machine translations.

Nobody would willingly write "geautomatiseerde verwerkingsprincipe is dat de geldwisselaar werkt volgens voorgedefinieerde sjablonen".
Lol.
copper member
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October 29, 2024, 04:37:02 AM
#39
it is not clear to us was the suspicious in using machine translation was the reason for our Dutch topic to be taken off.  Could anyone please advise?
It's the reason I reported it. I assume the Mod agreed with me. If you paid for these translations, it doesn't sound like natural Dutch.
Quote
"Als u uw tijd belangrijk vindt, moet u weten hoelang het duurt om een geldwisselaar met acceptabele wisselkoersen te kiezen. Wij bieden u aan dat te vergeten en uw tijd aan iets leuks te besteden"
I would have removed it as well (not that I can, but just saying in general). Nobody would willingly write "geautomatiseerde verwerkingsprincipe is dat de geldwisselaar werkt volgens voorgedefinieerde sjablonen".
legendary
Activity: 1862
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**In BTC since 2013**
October 29, 2024, 03:31:32 AM
#38
Dear all,

We at BestChange.com used the services of a well-established translation agency to translate our posts for the local topics.
We were in touch with translators and provided them with a feedback on terminology and other aspects.

it is not clear to us was the suspicious in using machine translation was the reason for our Dutch topic to be taken off.  Could anyone please advise?

Thank you.

I don't understand... do you use a team of translators, or do you use machine translators? Or was it just a case of automatic translation, Dutch?

legendary
Activity: 3290
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Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
October 29, 2024, 02:56:41 AM
#37
it is not clear to us was the suspicious in using machine translation was the reason for our Dutch topic to be taken off.  Could anyone please advise?
It's the reason I reported it. I assume the Mod agreed with me. If you paid for these translations, it doesn't sound like natural Dutch.
Quote
"Als u uw tijd belangrijk vindt, moet u weten hoelang het duurt om een geldwisselaar met acceptabele wisselkoersen te kiezen. Wij bieden u aan dat te vergeten en uw tijd aan iets leuks te besteden"
legendary
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Buy/Sell crypto at BestChange
October 29, 2024, 12:20:45 AM
#36
Dear all,

We at BestChange.com used the services of a well-established translation agency to translate our posts for the local topics.
We were in touch with translators and provided them with a feedback on terminology and other aspects.

it is not clear to us was the suspicious in using machine translation was the reason for our Dutch topic to be taken off.  Could anyone please advise?

Thank you.
legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1565
The first decentralized crypto betting platform
October 20, 2024, 11:56:06 PM
#35
Agree? Does he necessarily needs to agree with your point?? Like, I've been following up the whole conversation and he clearly did so from his second response.
...and you admitted that in the next response you made...
Here I think you're agreeing with me

For having followed the thread you seem to have a limited capacity for comprehension. Read it again to see if you can understand why he disagrees with me and see if you realise that it's me you're quoting.

I'm beginning to think that you're just up to criticizing anything that goes on even though you have alot of wrongs going on over your ends as well. [Dude corrected himself and ignored your arrogance and self-righteous declarations ..fuck!]

And it is clear to me that you, like most of those who participate in the campaign in which you participate, are used to being paid for writing rubbish, as long as what you write is long enough, which is what you are doing.

Here it was clear that LoyceV and I disagreed amicably on whether rule 27 is outdated or not, something that with your limited ability to understand you didn't understand, and you had to come and stir up something that was more than clear and about which there was no controversy whatsoever.
hero member
Activity: 798
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Goodnight, ohh Leo!!! 🦅
October 20, 2024, 01:59:46 PM
#34
Besides, what is the point of the rule? If the translated content posted on the local forum is spam or low value it already breaks other rules and can be reported, but if it is interesting, why can't it be posted if it is automatically translated whereas it can be posted if translated by my friend who has a certain level but is not proficient?
Maybe this rule was created to encourage more participation from languages other than English?
Cause, why not? You see, I love the way some rules are made to DISCOURAGE but not enforced like the other set of rules - plagiarism, spamming boards with DDOS links/services etc.
Or Maybe op feels the fact was being ignored by the MODS since that was done by someone that is a suppose reputable member/company?
Theymos has always wanted and is still constantly creating pathways to make the forum as easygoing and comfy for anyone, regardless of where you're reaching out from or what you look like.. how do we all respond to that? shitting out our asses in here and trashing it all up.

It is clear that we are not going to agree on this but at least now I am the one laughing out loud.
Agree? Does he necessarily needs to agree with your point?? Like, I've been following up the whole conversation and he clearly did so from his second response.
...and you admitted that in the next response you made...
Here I think you're agreeing with me
I'm beginning to think that you're just up to criticizing anything that goes on even though you have alot of wrongs going on over your ends as well. [Dude corrected himself and ignored your arrogance and self-righteous declarations ..fuck!]
legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1565
The first decentralized crypto betting platform
October 19, 2024, 10:16:53 PM
#33
Just report it. There's no Mod for the Dutch board either. What's the worst that can happen? A "Bad" report? I see those as "testing the limits of reporting".

Well, in the end I have reported it to see but I was hesitant at first because it seems to me a service that is being advertised on the local boards, which is legitimate, and there is no way to prove how it has been translated but it has always seemed spammy to me and it is true that some of the posts seem to be written with GPT chat.

I have reported it in English this time, I think the other reports I have in the section have not been picked up by anyone as they are in Spanish.

If someone translates a post, he creates a new post.

It is clear that we are not going to agree on this but at least now I am the one laughing out loud.

I guess, I'm also in favor of the members who say the rule isn't outdated, the reason is simple, machine generated translations can't match that of human written words. I know translation services have improved their translation models to very advanced levels but still they can't always create 100% grammar error free translations and I believe for some languages the machine generated translations might be 98% correct in grammar while in some languages the generated translation might have different meaning.

You don't even realise how advanced machine translation is now, the latest being AI. The more advanced translator, which was already quite good (Deepl.com), is a laughing stock next to Chat GPT.
hero member
Activity: 784
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Top Crypto Casino
October 19, 2024, 06:54:00 PM
#32
I guess, I'm also in favor of the members who say the rule isn't outdated, the reason is simple, machine generated translations can't match that of human written words. I know translation services have improved their translation models to very advanced levels but still they can't always create 100% grammar error free translations and I believe for some languages the machine generated translations might be 98% correct in grammar while in some languages the generated translation might have different meaning.
full member
Activity: 88
Merit: 102
October 19, 2024, 09:01:08 AM
#31
I find it hard to believe that a guy like you who knows so much about the forum would say that. Does this ring any bells?

Quote
1. No zero or low value, pointless or uninteresting posts or threads.

If it is spam it already breaks rule 1. You don't need another rule.

And on the other hand, can you tell me how you are going to enforce rule 27?

How can you prove that the following has been written using an automated translator?

Vergeet het zoeken naar geldwisselaars! Gebruik BestChange!

true, i agree with you, rule number 1 is the one that is enough and necessary
no spam, no useless comments, this rule is respected even if you use the translator, what's wrong with it as in my case now?
so i support you request, give priority to rule number 1 and the other accessories, if i understand correctly of couse
legendary
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Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
October 19, 2024, 08:38:16 AM
#30
I'm tempted to report the one on the Spanish board but since we don't have an active moderator I hesitate cause it might take another month.
Just report it. There's no Mod for the Dutch board either. What's the worst that can happen? A "Bad" report? I see those as "testing the limits of reporting".

Quote
Ehh, no. Rule 27 is not about whether it was created by humans or not, it is about whether it was translated by humans or not.
If someone translates a post, he creates a new post.
legendary
Activity: 1358
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The first decentralized crypto betting platform
October 19, 2024, 08:34:17 AM
#29
The Report is marked Good and the posts have been deleted. They also "lost" another local topic. Modlog:

I'm tempted to report the one on the Spanish board but since we don't have an active moderator I hesitate cause it might take another month.

If it would have been created by a human, it wouldn't have been deleted. This is exactly what "Rule 27" is for.

Ehh, no. Rule 27 is not about whether it was created by humans or not, it is about whether it was translated by humans or not.

If the content is GPT chat-created diarrhea it breaks rule 1, not rule 27, and in my experience moderators mark a report as ‘good’ even if you make a mistake in reporting it, for example if you report a thread in BD to be moved to Economics and it ends up moved to Speculation.

legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
October 19, 2024, 03:02:37 AM
#28
I can't read this without feeling I'm reading generic chatbot diarrhea. I've reported the posts.
The Report is marked Good and the posts have been deleted. They also "lost" another local topic. Modlog:
Code:
Remove topic: Nu behöver du inte längre leta efter växlingstjänster! Använd BestChange! in topic #5510255 by member #1073450
Remove topic: Vergeet het zoeken naar geldwisselaars! Gebruik BestChange! in topic #5510252 by member #1073450

Here I think you're agreeing with me, if that is generic chatbot diarrhea the problem is not whether it is translated by a human or not, the problem is the content.
If it would have been created by a human, it wouldn't have been deleted. This is exactly what "Rule 27" is for. The problem is: mods are very lenient. If they only delete the post when reported by a native speaker, many other translated posts will slip through and stay.
hero member
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October 18, 2024, 06:59:13 PM
#27
...I don't think it's hard to identify translated by tools because it should be different than native writers. You may still report if you find something like this.
Exactly, in my local board there are some few non-native users who did like this but i kept it as good as their post serve information about scams and updates of a certain service e.g. "freewallet". But some exceptions if the users is just promoting something and do only google translate for them to post it on the local board.
legendary
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October 18, 2024, 12:55:00 PM
#26
I don't see enough reason why those rules should be outdated. That rule discourages spamming on local boards by using translation tools even if you aren't a native speaker. If there are no rules, then I might make posts on a lot of local boards by using tools. So those rules prevent us from doing so. I don't think it's hard to identify translated by tools because it should be different than native writers. You may still report if you find something like this. 
legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1565
The first decentralized crypto betting platform
October 18, 2024, 10:46:57 AM
#25
I find it hard to believe that a guy like you who knows so much about the forum would say that.
Lol.

I hope you're amused because you're flattered, because seriously if I think of one forum member as the most knowledgeable (or one of the most knowledgeable) about how the forum works it's you.

Usually, when an ICO spammer wanted to translate topics, they'd ask Bitcointalk users to post translations.

That would happen in the past. Nowadays you have a translation just like a human translation or better done in a few seconds and without paying.

I find it hard to believe BestChange paid users from outside the forum for so many translations, especially since they all seem to have the exact same quality.

Mee too.

In this case:
<...>
I can't read this without feeling I'm reading generic chatbot diarrhea. I've reported the posts.

Here I think you're agreeing with me, if that is generic chatbot diarrhea the problem is not whether it is translated by a human or not, the problem is the content.
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
October 18, 2024, 09:24:18 AM
#24
I find it hard to believe that a guy like you who knows so much about the forum would say that.
Lol.

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I can't read this without feeling I'm reading generic chatbot diarrhea. I've reported the posts.
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