Topic: Isn't rule 27 outdated? (Read 838 times)

Dear everyone,

The agency has re-done the translation, and we have made a new post on the Local Dutch board. We hope it is fine now.

Thank you, everyone, for participating!

I would use the word "Exchange" in Spanish. I think that this is the trend in Spain and LATAM, to call them by their original name instead of inventing something new.

The thing is that one should find the term that fits for both types of users (Spaniards and South Americans). In Spanish, unlike others, the official language is only one, ruled by the RAE for every Spanish-speaking country. The RAE doesn't cover all these new crypto terms, but what I mean is that formal texts should sound good for everyone regardless of nationality.

I concede that in this case Intercambiador isn't so bad, it's not like the example of the swimming pool.


I used ChatGPT a few months ago for legal work and it just doesn't work. It mixes articles of laws from different Spanish-speaking countries, invents jurisprudence... it is not good for fine work.

You're right, I haven't tried it for translations and maybe it has progressed a lot since the last time I read about the topic, but at that time it seemed that the problems of hallucinations, semantics, internal references etc. were intrinsic to the way these tools were built and that they wouldn't be fully solved until the AGI at least. And we're not there yet.

I still see two problems: 1) most lazy translators will use Google translate and tools like that, not the last version of the most advance LLM; and 2) even if they used the last version of ChatGPT, and >99% of the text was perfectly translated, the devil would still be in the details, and a few simple mistakes in key terms could ruin the image of the entire work if it wasn't properly proofread at least.

Well, you, like me, see that as someone who speaks Spanish from Spain, but in South American Spanish (full of anglicisms) it might sound more natural.


It seems to me that you haven't tried translating with ChatGPT very much yourself (obviously because you translate yourself). A word of advice, if you are ever unclear how to translate a set phrase, ask ChatGPT.

I agree with you that sooner or later machine translation will make translators obsolete, but not yet. We have discussed in the past about these "piscinas de minado" (mining swimming pools) and other hallucinations of AI.



It is also the case of "exchange(r)s", which we have also discussed in the past about what the best option might be (should we translate them as the traditional "casa de cambio"? does "servicio de canje" sound better? or maybe we'd adopt the anglicism/neologism "exchange(r)" instead?). Personally I find the literal "intercambiador" too generic, and it's definitely not the term I would use when talking about it to a friend.

The day will arrive when human intervention will not be necessary, I don't deny it, but machine translators are not yet ready for our constantly evolving crypto-slang. And I'm not even talking about transcreation, which would undoubtedly give rise to another debate:

I don't understand Dutch language but I trust user who reported it, and I would do the same if automated translation was posted in our local board.
You should fire ''translator'' you hired and find someone who can actually speak local languages, maybe active trusted members from local boards.

I think there is a lot of merit in what you all are doing in that Alliance, my friend Porfirii, but I also think you are fighting a giant that is getting bigger and bigger.

For the time being Best_Change could take note and hire people from the Alliance to do these translations.

In the AoBT we are committed to translate all texts by hand. A few of our translators are willing to proofread a text translated by a machine instead, for a cheaper price, if the client prefers, but manual translation is the only one that guarantees that it will sound completely natural.

In this case it was even worse, as it seemed that the translation at least in some cases was automatic and it seems that Best_Change hired a translator, which means that the barrier between machine translation/human translation is becoming more and more blurred.


Nowadays, hiring an agency to translate would not be scam if they check what the automatic translation does well, but either due to human error, incompetence or because they are too busy, there may be errors when checking and things may happen that do not sound like natural language, as in this case.

And yes, AI will eventually replace translators. Deepl.com was very good, better than google translators, but AI is a step further.

They are complaining that their work is being undervalued, but it seems that even the translation agencies themselves are using automatic translation tools.

I believe that this translation work will largely be replaced by AI. But, in the end, whoever is really good in the area will make a lot of money, because good translations always need to be done by humans.

To effectively translate a text, it is not enough to know the meaning of the words and the meaning of the text. You need to know how natives think and speak in their daily lives.

It's true that for most cases, machine translation may be sufficient. But, for technical or specialized work, which requires high quality, humans must translate.

It’s good to know and say your a native speaker but still, don’t have a clear distinction on that which is done by a translator and that which is hand written or typed by a native speaker.
I might be new to this whole thing but my take is that, the rule actually applied when, it ain’t that good as it abuses the language for native speakers, leads to a lot of confusion and with the fact that, some words could differ in meaning based on the context they are being used.
These and many more could be what the rule 27 was create to avoid and with that been the case, the rule is subjective and could apply in obvious cases.
That means, it could be given a pass being that good, I think.

What most translators do today is take the text and run it through a machine translator and then review what the machine translator does. Depending on their desire and competence or how busy they are at the time they can do it better or worse, but in the end I decided a long time ago that unless it is absolutely necessary, I am not going to pay for a translation.

We used the services of a translation agency Alconost. This is what we got.

Out of the BestChange staff, I speak basic Dutch, but my level is not sufficient enough to distinguish the translation quality.

I will take the issue to the translation agency.

Please tell, if this the reason why our topic in Swedish was removed?

If we do not get a proper response from Alconost, and you want to help us out with our translations, feel free to DM.

Thank you!

P.S. We reached out to the agency with the question, and they said they would initiate an investigation, would ask the text to be proofread by another linquist and get the comments from the translator.

They "used the services of a well-established translation agency". It could be the translation agency uses machine translation, which means they're basically scamming their customers. I recently read an article (in Dutch) in which translators complain their fees are pushed down by chatbot translations, and most of their jobs are degraded to checking machine translations.

Lol.

I would have removed it as well (not that I can, but just saying in general). Nobody would willingly write "geautomatiseerde verwerkingsprincipe is dat de geldwisselaar werkt volgens voorgedefinieerde sjablonen".

I don't understand... do you use a team of translators, or do you use machine translators? Or was it just a case of automatic translation, Dutch?

It's the reason I reported it. I assume the Mod agreed with me. If you paid for these translations, it doesn't sound like natural Dutch.

Dear all,

We at BestChange.com used the services of a well-established translation agency to translate our posts for the local topics.
We were in touch with translators and provided them with a feedback on terminology and other aspects.

it is not clear to us was the suspicious in using machine translation was the reason for our Dutch topic to be taken off.  Could anyone please advise?

Thank you.

For having followed the thread you seem to have a limited capacity for comprehension. Read it again to see if you can understand why he disagrees with me and see if you realise that it's me you're quoting.


And it is clear to me that you, like most of those who participate in the campaign in which you participate, are used to being paid for writing rubbish, as long as what you write is long enough, which is what you are doing.

Here it was clear that LoyceV and I disagreed amicably on whether rule 27 is outdated or not, something that with your limited ability to understand you didn't understand, and you had to come and stir up something that was more than clear and about which there was no controversy whatsoever.

Cause, why not? You see, I love the way some rules are made to DISCOURAGE but not enforced like the other set of rules - plagiarism, spamming boards with DDOS links/services etc.
Or Maybe op feels the fact was being ignored by the MODS since that was done by someone that is a suppose reputable member/company?
Theymos has always wanted and is still constantly creating pathways to make the forum as easygoing and comfy for anyone, regardless of where you're reaching out from or what you look like.. how do we all respond to that? shitting out our asses in here and trashing it all up.

Agree? Does he necessarily needs to agree with your point?? Like, I've been following up the whole conversation and he clearly did so from his second response.
...and you admitted that in the next response you made...I'm beginning to think that you're just up to criticizing anything that goes on even though you have alot of wrongs going on over your ends as well. ^{[Dude corrected himself and ignored your arrogance and self-righteous declarations ..fuck!]}

Well, in the end I have reported it to see but I was hesitant at first because it seems to me a service that is being advertised on the local boards, which is legitimate, and there is no way to prove how it has been translated but it has always seemed spammy to me and it is true that some of the posts seem to be written with GPT chat.

I have reported it in English this time, I think the other reports I have in the section have not been picked up by anyone as they are in Spanish.


It is clear that we are not going to agree on this but at least now I am the one laughing out loud.


You don't even realise how advanced machine translation is now, the latest being AI. The more advanced translator, which was already quite good (Deepl.com), is a laughing stock next to Chat GPT.