It's about time to turn off PoW mining - page 6.

achimsmile

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Quote from: ArticMine on January 16, 2015, 02:38:19 PM

POS has one fundamental flaw. Stake does not equal exposure as pirateat40 proved back in 2011 / 2012 https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-savings-and-trust-home-closed-50822. Show me a POS system that can deal with pirate.

Edit: Without the help of the US Government.

Could you elaborate? I'm not sure what you mean.

ArticMine

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Monero Core Team

POS has one fundamental flaw. Stake does not equal exposure as pirateat40 proved back in 2011 / 2012 https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-savings-and-trust-home-closed-50822. Show me a POS system that can deal with pirate.

Edit: Without the help of the US Government.

VectorChief

newbie

Activity: 56

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Quote from: Q7 on January 16, 2015, 07:44:38 AM

After seeing the price crash I'm ready to turn into a believer in this and what benefit it would bring. What I mean is about giving everybody a chance... rather than miners we could have something like a cpu driven concept, where we can actually let anybody to leave their computers on and contribute towards the hash rate.

So indirectly you are rewarding common people, main thing is to earn interest by holding on to the coin. I'm sure that could mean something.

PoW mining is the only way to keep the money system running without a permanent overseeing authority, as miners get into their positions by being better than others, rather than by decree like in fiat or PoS.

But you are always given a choice.
Sometimes, you need to choose what is easy, to learn how to choose what is right.

achimsmile

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Quote from: Flashman on January 16, 2015, 02:01:32 PM

Quote from: achimsmile on January 16, 2015, 07:58:41 AM

And it's 100% ASIC resistant

What about an ASIC with 1000 dumbass ARM cores that only run a trimmed down linux plus wallet?

and every core with its own ip address?
Are you hinting at the "thousands of nodes with fake blockchain attack"?
if so: still resistant.

The beauty of PoS is: It does not matter how many nodes you have with fake blockchain, if my node sees at least one other peer with a blockchain with higher cumulative difficulty, it's all good.

Flashman

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Hodl!

Quote from: achimsmile on January 16, 2015, 07:58:41 AM

And it's 100% ASIC resistant

What about an ASIC with 1000 dumbass ARM cores that only run a trimmed down linux plus wallet?

achimsmile

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Quote from: Q7 on January 16, 2015, 07:44:38 AM

rather than miners we could have something like a cpu driven concept, where we can actually let anybody to leave their computers on and contribute towards the hash rate.

That is how PoS works (except the hashrate part).

You have to leave your CPU running in order to generate a block. And it's 100% ASIC resistant

Q7

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

After seeing the price crash I'm ready to turn into a believer in this and what benefit it would bring. What I mean is about giving everybody a chance... rather than miners we could have something like a cpu driven concept, where we can actually let anybody to leave their computers on and contribute towards the hash rate.

So indirectly you are rewarding common people, main thing is to earn interest by holding on to the coin. I'm sure that could mean something.

Baitty

hero member

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Merit: 500

Currently held as collateral by monbux

Which is more expensive overall compared to profit?

phillipsjk

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Let the chips fall where they may.

Quote from: thriftshopping on January 15, 2015, 06:20:31 PM

Quote from: kokojie on January 14, 2015, 11:17:47 PM

Quote from: Oscilson on January 13, 2015, 01:32:04 PM

I use PoW mining to warm my house.

Then you only mine in winter? good luck with ROI on your hardware.

it would be possible to mine with generally obsolete hardware that is very cheap that double as both a space heater and a miner.

It would also be possible that he lives in a very cold part of the world where it is close year round so he would not need to turn off his miners in the "summer"

I live 55° North. Electric heat is not used much due to the cost. Mostly natural gas is used (which has lower transmission losses).

I also figured out that even space-heaters should be within one generation or so. That way you get more hashing/watt.

Edit: That said, I did spin up an 80-100W "space heater" when it got cold. I earned like $1 worth of Freicoin while using only about $10 worth of electricity ("free" power, but don't want to abuse it).

thriftshopping

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Quote from: kokojie on January 14, 2015, 11:17:47 PM

Quote from: Oscilson on January 13, 2015, 01:32:04 PM

I use PoW mining to warm my house.

Then you only mine in winter? good luck with ROI on your hardware.

it would be possible to mine with generally obsolete hardware that is very cheap that double as both a space heater and a miner.

It would also be possible that he lives in a very cold part of the world where it is close year round so he would not need to turn off his miners in the "summer"

kokojie

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Activity: 1806

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Quote from: Oscilson on January 13, 2015, 01:32:04 PM

I use PoW mining to warm my house.

Then you only mine in winter? good luck with ROI on your hardware.

Oscilson

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 250

I use PoW mining to warm my house.

jonald_fyookball

legendary

Activity: 1302

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Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political

30 pages of the same arguments on both sides...

its all been said, time to let the thread die.

fonenumba

full member

Activity: 411

Merit: 100

Quote from: kokojie on January 05, 2015, 09:11:55 AM

Quote from: johnyj on January 04, 2015, 10:33:33 PM

Quote from: ticoti on January 04, 2015, 03:00:38 PM

price decreasing and difficulty increasing

this is the world turned over

Some state-owned chinese companies are using bitcoin farms to convert their free electricity into fiat money Grin

That's exactly the problem with PoW, it's value extracted from current Bitcoin holders, just by expending electricity. Basically current Bitcoin holders is spending $500k dollar per day, just to buy electricity that is useless, wasted and unneeded. Wasteful PoW mining can be easily replaced with a Proof of Stake system.

You don't let some miner from China control your personal finance, why let miners control your Bitcoin network? Bitcoin stakeholders should be the controller of Bitcoin network, not some random profit crazy mining farm from China.

You are incorrect. The profit seeking mining farm (with free electricity) has an incentive to maintain the long term security of the network because if the network is not secure then the mining farm will lose out on their investment on their mining equipment. If someone were to try to attack a PoS coin then they would be able to sell their PoS coin before anyone would even notice it was atacked

kokojie

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Quote from: johnyj on January 04, 2015, 10:33:33 PM

Quote from: ticoti on January 04, 2015, 03:00:38 PM

price decreasing and difficulty increasing

this is the world turned over

Some state-owned chinese companies are using bitcoin farms to convert their free electricity into fiat money Grin

That's exactly the problem with PoW, it's value extracted from current Bitcoin holders, just by expending electricity. Basically current Bitcoin holders is spending $500k dollar per day, just to buy electricity that is useless, wasted and unneeded. Wasteful PoW mining can be easily replaced with a Proof of Stake system.

You don't let some miner from China control your personal finance, why let miners control your Bitcoin network? Bitcoin stakeholders should be the controller of Bitcoin network, not some random profit crazy mining farm from China.

johnyj

legendary

Activity: 1988

Merit: 1012

Beyond Imagination

Quote from: ticoti on January 04, 2015, 03:00:38 PM

price decreasing and difficulty increasing

this is the world turned over

Some state-owned chinese companies are using bitcoin farms to convert their free electricity into fiat money Grin

fabiola!

sr. member

Activity: 714

Merit: 251

Quote from: ticoti on January 04, 2015, 03:00:38 PM

price decreasing and difficulty increasing

this is the world turned over

255 today...could it get any lower tomorrow?

ticoti

hero member

Activity: 854

Merit: 1000

price decreasing and difficulty increasing

this is the world turned over

delulo

sr. member

Activity: 441

Merit: 250

Quote from: fabiola! on January 04, 2015, 02:28:26 PM

Quote from: delulo on January 03, 2015, 07:17:01 PM

Quote from: iGotSpots on January 03, 2015, 07:13:48 PM

Yep all my miners are off now. Everything is in PoS with MMXIV and BALLS. I make more staking thoae two on the 5w dedicated staker than I was with several tens of terahashes and a huge electricity bill every month

You are an evidence of mining centralization, less of POW inefficiency... Little guys don't mine anymore...

I turned mine off last month as well, except for one, just need to feel like I haven't given up on btc altogether.

Just research alternatives that have no mining / POW... Solutions are out there.

fabiola!

sr. member

Activity: 714

Merit: 251

Quote from: delulo on January 03, 2015, 07:17:01 PM

Quote from: iGotSpots on January 03, 2015, 07:13:48 PM

Yep all my miners are off now. Everything is in PoS with MMXIV and BALLS. I make more staking thoae two on the 5w dedicated staker than I was with several tens of terahashes and a huge electricity bill every month

You are an evidence of mining centralization, less of POW inefficiency... Little guys don't mine anymore...

I turned mine off last month as well, except for one, just need to feel like I haven't given up on btc altogether.

Topic: It's about time to turn off PoW mining - page 6. (Read 39732 times)