If the OP started mining on 03/01/2009, would he had made that post?
Late adopters whining.
Topic: It's impossible for EVERYONE to benefit - page 2. (Read 3612 times)
Do you understand that it's impossible for everyone to win?
Speculation of bitcoins is just a way for people to steal from each other... there will always be losers and winners, it is not much different from gambling
people put their money together and whoever exchanges his bitcoins at the right time will make a profit (and someone will have to take the equal loss)
whereas exchanges like mt.gox will continue to make profit either way
I know this is very basic but after reading this forum I am not sure if everyone understand this
so it's impossible for everyone to benefit, my guess is that numbers are close to 25-30% of people stealing from the rest (or making profit) similar to Forex
Speculation of bitcoins is just a way for people to steal from each other... there will always be losers and winners, it is not much different from gambling
people put their money together and whoever exchanges his bitcoins at the right time will make a profit (and someone will have to take the equal loss)
whereas exchanges like mt.gox will continue to make profit either way
I know this is very basic but after reading this forum I am not sure if everyone understand this
so it's impossible for everyone to benefit, my guess is that numbers are close to 25-30% of people stealing from the rest (or making profit) similar to Forex
learn2gametheory and it'll seem less confusing/dumb.
and yes, i do think everyone realizes this, although when irrational bullish greed starts clouding this basic concept, it's usually a market top.
How about we make this post the last one here. It's really stupid and pointless thread (many are though but this one is special).
Eventually someone must be left holding shiny rocks when everyone else cashes out of gold!
Fiat, gold, bitcoin, stocks, they're all just arbitrary imaginary units representing abilities and characteristics humans value. Bitcoin has unique characteristics.
Fiat, gold, bitcoin, stocks, they're all just arbitrary imaginary units representing abilities and characteristics humans value. Bitcoin has unique characteristics.
I WANT YOUR ZEROSUM!
If a person sells a commodity, it was their choice to do so and they agreed to a price at that time
Maybe that price made the person "feel good" at that time, or something similar. They must have had a reason -- if they had none, then they acted out of irrationality/ insanity and have proven they don't deserve to hold the commodity anyway.
The market is the aggregate of individuals' choices. Some of them chose wisely; some of them not so much.
That's life; get over it and move on. Just try to make better and better decisions-- that's the best we can all do.
Personally I find that the more time I spend worrying about any supposed injustice or whatever you want to call it (tragedy of the commons, perhaps?) in the "poor saps who lost out", the more time it takes away from my ability to hone my own shrewdness.
Welcome to the Age of Aquarius -- the era of Horus: Crowned & Conquering Child -- the era of Personal Finanacial Liberty (& Ultimate Individual Responsibility). Embrace the change or perish.
Maybe that price made the person "feel good" at that time, or something similar. They must have had a reason -- if they had none, then they acted out of irrationality/ insanity and have proven they don't deserve to hold the commodity anyway.
The market is the aggregate of individuals' choices. Some of them chose wisely; some of them not so much.
That's life; get over it and move on. Just try to make better and better decisions-- that's the best we can all do.
Personally I find that the more time I spend worrying about any supposed injustice or whatever you want to call it (tragedy of the commons, perhaps?) in the "poor saps who lost out", the more time it takes away from my ability to hone my own shrewdness.
Welcome to the Age of Aquarius -- the era of Horus: Crowned & Conquering Child -- the era of Personal Finanacial Liberty (& Ultimate Individual Responsibility). Embrace the change or perish.
Technically everyone could win, but that is a statistical improbability to the point that it's impossible. I thought I heard somewhere that a small % of BTC available is actually being used/traded.
It could very well be possible... Lets say all the people that sold during the crash were "old btc" who bought in at $1-10... They would have won... The people that bought at the top could still be holding so they could in theory still win...
I am sorry but the point is pretty silly honestly. Sure not everyone wins... Just like not everyone is an asshole or a nice person and not every piece of bacon is delicious... oh wait... every piece of bacon is delicious:)
In this world, 99% of everything has winners and losers to some degree. Captain Obvious award I think should be awarded.
It could very well be possible... Lets say all the people that sold during the crash were "old btc" who bought in at $1-10... They would have won... The people that bought at the top could still be holding so they could in theory still win...
I am sorry but the point is pretty silly honestly. Sure not everyone wins... Just like not everyone is an asshole or a nice person and not every piece of bacon is delicious... oh wait... every piece of bacon is delicious:)
In this world, 99% of everything has winners and losers to some degree. Captain Obvious award I think should be awarded.
What you just described is exactly what many in the BTC community would considered "winning".
Yes, making money is very nice, but that is not the end game for BTC.
"Winning" can mean very many different things to very many different people in regards to BTC.
My 2BTC
Yes. I think those that choose to purchase BTC early on will have more buying power later from the growth and desire for BTC, but it will not change the fact that BTC is valuable and useful just for what it is. There will probably be a day when the price of BTC is saturated and does not fluctuate much, and there will probably be a great reward for those that invest early (There already is for those who bought a year ago) but there will be many people that will eventually need to use BTC and will use them with the sole desire of just having a way to transfer money quickly and without bank fees. They will not see it as a ponzi scheme and it will still be very beneficial to them.
So since every coin I hold can be considered profit, by not cashing out I'm continuously making someone else lose, and will continue to do so until I do cash out? How can that be?
I'll tell you... the real losers are going to be those who stick with fiat until it is too late.
I'll tell you... the real losers are going to be those who stick with fiat until it is too late.
only if you are the exchanger or mining bitcoins your self.... if you are holding bitcoins their number is not increasing, if you have 100 bitcoins now, you will have 100 after 10 years, where will be your profit then? the only profit you can make is to take money away from other people at the right time...
It doesn't matter. You are not looking at a closed system.
It will only be a zero sum game if the exchange rate returns to its original value: 0.
Until that point (if it ever comes) we will have more winners than losers within bitcoin, and more losers than winnners in the fiat world.
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No, it isn't. But your understanding that it doesn't work is correct.
Still, I'd like to know - rather than by negative example - in what arena do you see it as possible for every participant to win?
it will never be possible for everyone to win. What bitcoins could theoretically do is to take away banks power, so that 99% of people would not be losing against banks, freedom from bank control, but at the same time, banks have their purpose and they will always exist, this is what history tells us and to believe otherwise is to believe in some kind of utopia
bitcoins have their purpose - money laundering and privacy, faster transactions and low fees, freedom from government control (although government is supposed to work for people, so that's another issue)
not losing is not the same as winning
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it will never be possible for everyone to win.
Mmmm. So your thread title is somewhat... divergent?... from that expression, no?
In any case, all I can say is this: if I ever found myself living in an actual Utopia I would devote my life to its utter destruction. And yes - I always played Chaotic Good...
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No, it isn't. But your understanding that it doesn't work is correct.
Still, I'd like to know - rather than by negative example - in what arena do you see it as possible for every participant to win?
it will never be possible for everyone to win. What bitcoins could theoretically do is to take away banks power, so that 99% of people would not be losing against banks, freedom from bank control, but at the same time, banks have their purpose and they will always exist, this is what history tells us and to believe otherwise is to believe in some kind of utopia
bitcoins have their purpose - money laundering and privacy, faster transactions and low fees, freedom from government control (although government is supposed to work for people, so that's another issue)
not losing is not the same as winning
What you just described is exactly what many in the BTC community would considered "winning".
Yes, making money is very nice, but that is not the end game for BTC.
"Winning" can mean very many different things to very many different people in regards to BTC.
My 2BTC
Quote
No, it isn't. But your understanding that it doesn't work is correct.
Still, I'd like to know - rather than by negative example - in what arena do you see it as possible for every participant to win?
it will never be possible for everyone to win. What bitcoins could theoretically do is to take away banks power, so that 99% of people would not be losing against banks, freedom from bank control, but at the same time, banks have their purpose and they will always exist, this is what history tells us and to believe otherwise is to believe in some kind of utopia
bitcoins have their purpose - money laundering and privacy, faster transactions and low fees, freedom from government control (although government is supposed to work for people, so that's another issue)
not losing is not the same as winning
Do you understand that it's impossible for everyone to win?
Just as a matter of curiosity, in what arena do you see it as possible for every participant to win?
Investing, not speculating. If everybody buy, and nobody sell, then we increase the value. Everybody wins, no sells, no market, no exchange, pure WIN/WIN for everybody.
that is the definition of Ponzi scheme
[/quote]
No, it isn't. But your understanding that it doesn't work is correct.
Still, I'd like to know - rather than by negative example - in what arena do you see it as possible for every participant to win?
When everyone uses Bitcoin as their currency, we all win.
Oh wait...banks lose.
And big corporations.
And governments.
Oh wait...banks lose.
And big corporations.
And governments.
Bitcoin is designed as a currency, you can already buy with it, sell for it, work for it, employ for it... not really in masses yet but we're heading there...
will you buy it, sell it, will you work for it or adopt it in any way is just your problem, certainly not mine.
If you could buy bitcoin now for 5$ and know you would sell it for 200$ in the future you wouldn't give a flying one would someone lose or not in that period, what kind of scheme it is etc.. you are scared about it because of it's 140$ price and you don't have balls to do it
will you buy it, sell it, will you work for it or adopt it in any way is just your problem, certainly not mine.
If you could buy bitcoin now for 5$ and know you would sell it for 200$ in the future you wouldn't give a flying one would someone lose or not in that period, what kind of scheme it is etc.. you are scared about it because of it's 140$ price and you don't have balls to do it
So since every coin I hold can be considered profit, by not cashing out I'm continuously making someone else lose, and will continue to do so until I do cash out? How can that be?
I'll tell you... the real losers are going to be those who stick with fiat until it is too late.
I'll tell you... the real losers are going to be those who stick with fiat until it is too late.
only if you are the exchanger or mining bitcoins your self.... if you are holding bitcoins their number is not increasing, if you have 100 bitcoins now, you will have 100 after 10 years, where will be your profit then? the only profit you can make is to take money away from other people at the right time...
Actually wait... isn't it demand that drives up price? The more people that want BTC the more scarce it becomes. The more scarce it becomes the more it is worth. No actual money is lost in this respect. Technically speaking everyone can win as long as the price keeps rising. People lose money by selling when the price goes lower than what they paid for.
and how is this better than a Ponzi scheme?
You are right, I'm agaisnt the markets, but it's like gambling, people keep playing games with a casino edge of more than 1%. So, fools deserve lose.
Just as a matter of curiosity, in what arena do you see it as possible for every participant to win?
Investing, not speculating. If everybody buy, and nobody sell, then we increase the value. Everybody wins, no sells, no market, no exchange, pure WIN/WIN for everybody.
Do you understand that it's impossible for everyone to win?
Just as a matter of curiosity, in what arena do you see it as possible for every participant to win?
Investing, not speculating. If everybody buy, and nobody sell, then we increase the value. Everybody wins, no sells, no market, no exchange, pure WIN/WIN for everybody.
I hope you can realize what paradox that sentence is when you read it again.
You are right, I'm agaisnt the markets, but it's like gambling, people keep playing games with a casino edge of more than 1%. So, fools deserve lose.
Just as a matter of curiosity, in what arena do you see it as possible for every participant to win?
Investing, not speculating. If everybody buy, and nobody sell, then we increase the value. Everybody wins, no sells, no market, no exchange, pure WIN/WIN for everybody.
Do you understand that it's impossible for everyone to win?
Just as a matter of curiosity, in what arena do you see it as possible for every participant to win?
Investing, not speculating. If everybody buy, and nobody sell, then we increase the value. Everybody wins, no sells, no market, no exchange, pure WIN/WIN for everybody.
that is the definition of Ponzi scheme
You are right, I'm agaisnt the markets, but it's like gambling, people keep playing games with a casino edge of more than 1%. So, fools deserve lose.
Just as a matter of curiosity, in what arena do you see it as possible for every participant to win?
Investing, not speculating. If everybody buy, and nobody sell, then we increase the value. Everybody wins, no sells, no market, no exchange, pure WIN/WIN for everybody.
Do you understand that it's impossible for everyone to win?
Just as a matter of curiosity, in what arena do you see it as possible for every participant to win?
Investing, not speculating. If everybody buy, and nobody sell, then we increase the value. Everybody wins, no sells, no market, no exchange, pure WIN/WIN for everybody.
So since every coin I hold can be considered profit, by not cashing out I'm continuously making someone else lose, and will continue to do so until I do cash out? How can that be?
I'll tell you... the real losers are going to be those who stick with fiat until it is too late.
I'll tell you... the real losers are going to be those who stick with fiat until it is too late.
only if you are the exchanger or mining bitcoins your self.... if you are holding bitcoins their number is not increasing, if you have 100 bitcoins now, you will have 100 after 10 years, where will be your profit then? the only profit you can make is to take money away from other people at the right time...
Actually wait... isn't it demand that drives up price? The more people that want BTC the more scarce it becomes. The more scarce it becomes the more it is worth. No actual money is lost in this respect. Technically speaking everyone can win as long as the price keeps rising. People lose money by selling when the price goes lower than what they paid for.
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