Topic: Its Official Pirate Has Defaulted!! - page 17. (Read 63508 times)

Lol love it.

Guys, If I were Pirate, I'd already be in Mexico, drinking a mojito.

There will be no bankruptcy.

Lol, I was almost sure of this. Great game pireteat40. Idiots are everywhere. Is there a new ponzi emerging? I think there will be, soon, but I am not willing it.

Interesting thought...you think it's possible that whoever pirate had a RL relationship with is now fucking with him?

If not that, then a lawyer or his dad over his shoulder has my guess.

lol...although weren't the launders the ones buying virgin coins off pirate then selling them on gox?

Agreed, funny how bankruptcy is a Federal process yet the states and other jurisdictions can also get there fingers into it.

What I find very interesting is the part I put in bold.

Define the value of BTC in a legal sense. Courts do not deal in  BTC or other digital assets that technically have zero value in the legal system. (There is a reason Blizzard fights hard to make sure that the digital "assets" in their games have no real value legally).

Is the US legal system to go by the value markets in Japan and Russia (Mt. Gox and BTC-E) show it to be? One also must consider what is generally believed to be a hostile attitude the US government has towards BTC.

I would be unsure if a bankruptcy judge would even consider a case like this.

If a bankruptcy filing does occur and a judge accepts it, what does that mean for the legal status of BTC?

No, it doesn't.  Debts accrued as the result of fraud can't be discharged in bankruptcy.  But fraud is a criminal offence, so creditors need to take positive action to ensure they can establish that the amounts they're owed were acquired by fraud.



You're right that a person seeking insolvency protection is required to list all creditors, who are then notified by the person overseeing the insolvency.  In some jurisdictions the insolvency must also be publicly advertised prior to the close of claims.  Who is regarded as a creditor, what debts are provable in bankruptcy, whether a disputed claim can be included in a bankruptcy, and whether someone can pursue other legal action against a bankrupt person are all jurisdiction specific.  We're presuming for the purposes of this discussion that Texas insolvency law would apply in this particular instance and that it would be a personal bankruptcy.

Also, is it not true that if pirate's scheme was found to be earning money by illicit means then the value of people's claims would be affected (and payments made to some participants may even be clawed back)?

sure doesn't and dreamwatcher is pretty spot on about the order of things.
Firstly, we will be able to see his filing, if there is one, before any official notices are sent out if I am not mistken.
I'll take a good spin thru all the recent TX filings tommorow..

Whats better than catching 1 money launderer ? Catching 700 of them!   

I dont think filing bankruptcy means you can avoid Fraud charges.

AS much as I hate to contradict you, The bankruptcy process actually works in the reverse manner. If it worked the way you stated, anybody could file bankruptcy in secret without giving creditors the opportunity to contest. How would a creditor know somebody is filing bankruptcy unless they are listed in the filing and given notice?

It is the responsibility of the person/entity filing for Bankruptcy to list all the creditors in the filing. Any creditor not listed in the filing is excluded from said bankruptcy.

After the filing, all the creditors listed get notice of the filing and are given a deadline to contest the bankruptcy or amount of debt claimed.
There are few reasons why a listed creditor can get an exemption from the bankruptcy, but one of the main reasons is FRAUD.

While it is true a unlisted creditor would lose out on any distribution in the bankruptcy, they will still be able to take any legal action to collect the debt as the bankruptcy does not apply to them. Bankruptcy does not eliminate debt. A bankruptcy is a Federal STAY order barring listed creditors from taking any action to collect a debt outside the conditions of the bankruptcy order (Thus the different types of bankruptcy from full liquidation to various business bankruptcies involving creditors getting certain percentages back etc.)

Oh and just in case;

'Who do I notify about a possible fraudulant bankruptcy filing'
http://www.canb.uscourts.gov/faqs#FAQG6  
This is a general rundown of the guidlines and will have different contact info by state.

http://www.justice.gov/ust/eo/fraud/index.htm
This one is for the U.S. Trustees at the Department of Justice

I, among many, told you so.


If you want to have more money, you should listen next time.

lol

a short story of bitcoin

a man promised big earnings
other men trusted him and gave him their money
the man got rich and screw the creditors

... and life goes on ...

This.

I would have thought that the sub accounts were irrelevant to pirate. The whole point of the pass through was that each account wrapped up a whole bunch of stuff he didn't want to take responsibility for. If he's now saying "Yeah actually I want to take responsibility for them," you have to ask yourselves why. Is he because he feels bad and wants to reduce the burden on you, the pass through operator?

Its understandable you'd want to offload your responsibility to your own investors, too, but I would have thought they were investing in you and not pirate, even though you implicitly stated what you were doing. That being said, if he wants to pay back 10% of all outstanding, whats the difference between paying all sub account manually their share (more work), and just giving the PT operator the 10% based on it's account value with him, and letting them pay off their people?

Goat you were right in IRC...something's utterly off about this, and Pirate is black boxing again. "Give me your sub accounts or none of you get anything" is a metaphor for extortion, imo.

Hmm. That makes me wonder about the history of the pass-throughs, and if they could possibly be essential to the structure of the whole scheme.

aye, that's the right kind of asshole to be. ;p

In general, insolvency requires people to actively file claims in the appropriate manner by a specific date.  Those claims are then checked against the records of the insolvent entity.  I suspect pirate doesn't have such records and needs to create them.  But yeah, if you fail to file a proper claim against a bankrupt estate you miss out on any distribution (and I suspect a lot of people won't file because doing so would require tying their real world identities to their BS&T transactions).

That works too.

I am only here for the popcorn