Topic: John Nash created bitcoin - page 9. (Read 22254 times)

Seriously you do not understand Byzantine fault tolerance and the FLP impossibility theorem.

I'm sure it'll be fine. I wouldn't worry too much. We're on the front lines of this whole shift and as investors/speculators we need to be! IMO we need to be preparing for when we want to cash some out to lock in gains and/or diversify. Are you familiar with Doug Casey, Simon Black, etc.? Investigate their PT (permanent traveller, multiple flags philosophies. Essentially, living in one country, holding citizenship(s) in another with low or zero tax on non-residents, and thirdly, have assets (offshore account, real estate, etc) in another jurisdiction. The idea is diversifying your life between multiple jurisdictions. Typically tourists are treated better than citizens (they aren't tax livestock!).

Personally, I can see cryptos becoming the new offshore accounts. Will it not be possible in 10 years to be have diversified a significant amount into something like Monero, ZCash or some other fully anonymous coin? I can't see how the anonymous coins wouldn't be insanely valuable if/when governments start cracking down on crypto holders. Maybe @iamnotback has some thoughts on this?

But you aren't sure.


Will you guarantee that no one will be imprisoned/tortured for "financial crimes"¹ if they fail to comply with government orders to turn over their private keys?

I want you to make an asshat for yourself so we can enshrine your post later when it is proven that you were incorrect.


Your nonsense has been refuted already upthread.

The devs have no control whatsoever dufus.


¹ Read more about this here.

Well we can estimate given that BTC trades 1/100th of its market cap daily. So @ $500k per BTC thus a $10 trillion market cap, thus $100 billion transacted daily. Given 144 blocks per day, that is $600 million per block.

Let's assume that whales will put complex settlement transactions on the blockchain with many inputs and outputs so perhaps only 100 transactions per block. Presuming that whales are willing to pay 0.1% fee for security (i.e. $600,000 per block), that means a minimum transaction fee of $6000. If whales are willing to pay more for security, say 1%, then minimum transaction fee of $60,000.

However, I think whales will end up demanding a kickback from miners for their transaction fees, so that miners can jack up fees on non-whales. Whales can make this demand because they can refuse to send their transactions to miners which won't deal. Yet non-whales can't make a credible threat, because miners who generally offered lower fees would end up losing hashrate relative to those miners who didn't defect from the fee market. Thus I think you will probably see miners colluding to extract the maximum fees that gouge non-whales.

So perhaps 10% fees so $600,000 per transaction. You'll pay it because you have no choice, whereas the whales will have exempted themselves from the fee. So in other words, we will be paying the fees for the whales, eventually the millionaires paying exorbitant fees in order to transact unregulated.

You'll of course be able to avoid that exorbitant fees by going through a regulated option as I explained previously.

So the bottom line is the whales will be free from regulation and we will not. We remain slaves.


Monitor the fees paid in blocks. It will gradually rise over the coming years.


It is a function of the supply and demand for BTC. As the demand for transactions outstrips supply of block size space, the transaction fees will rise accordingly. You can project if you can project BTC transaction demand.


Well they exist. MP is one of them. You can speak to him on his IRC channel. Ask him if you want. Be sincere and maybe he won't be too hard on you.

Better to ask directly while you still can access him. I provided the link to his IRC in my prior post.

Please notify us after you did.


Well I think the price of Bitcoin will rise to greater than $10,000 before you have any problem about the fees, as long as you are only spending minimum increments of 1 BTC.


Well at 20 BTC you probably be able to cash out more than a $million if you don't encounter the other pitfalls I mentioned.

We are headed into a difficult time with collapsing governments, chaos, and war.

But if you are clever, you might make it through in a good situation. Remain alert and astute. Don't stop learning.

So let me get this straight.

Even people holding millions of dollars worth of bitcoin, will see their bitcoins trapped because transaction fees will be worth millions of dollars? What fees are we talking about by 2030? (at supposedly around $500k price)

And how do we know when we start losing money (aka when is the time to dump?)

You say now is too early because the price will go higher and the fees will still be affordable.

How does one calculate when you start losing money in relation to the amount of BTC you are holding, the price, and the fees so you know the ideal time to dump?

Is rpietila also part of that group? what will happen to him? he seemed like a cool guy.
You paint a scary picture where there is an Illuminati elite of BTC holders. I am just a hard working poor guy hustling for BTCs, made a decent portfolio (not even yet 21 BTC group) and you are saying these guys will make my wealth useless because the fee will be so high by 2030 that even if you are holding something decent like 10-20 BTC, your wealth will be stuck, so you are forced to eventually sell before the fee is higher than your wealth. This is just nuts man, what the fuck? Fucking billionaires. Fuck all of you!! I only wanted to make a couple million dollars from my hard working and hustling and long term vision to hodl BTC and retire peacefully and now I will get fucked by insane fees. Fuck this trash, fuck their group, pussies. I was excited to see BTC at 6 figures in 10 years, but I will not be part of it even if i have 10 million worth of BTC because fees will be higher than 10 million BTC? this is insane. When the fuck do I dump this garbage? im too pissed, im going to the gym.

As great a mathematician as John Nash was, he did not code bitcoin.  Some of his thinking may have influenced bitcoin's genesis, but he did not write the code....He was too busy chasing Harvey the Rabbit to find the time to code.

You have no secrets from the national security agencies. I don't care how many mixers you use, you have no secrets from them. Find old discussions between @smooth and myself on that topic.


He is already one of the $billionaires (will probably be $trillionaire by 2030). He is a member of their shadow elite's club named The Most Serene Republic.

Do you need the evidence. MP alerted the TMSR which controls Wikileaks and this is why Wikileaks destroyed Hillary's campaign. Do some research on the connection between Rothschild and Julian Assange. Btw, Julian was a cyberpunk (the mailing list discussions) before he launched Wikileaks of which so were other players such as Hal Finney and James A. Donald (see my quotes of him in the Dark Enlightenment thread and note he was first person to respond to Satoshi on the metzdown mailing list whet Bitcoin was announced Nov. 1, 2008).


They don't need to trap you. You'll get caught in their regulations because you will get kicked off the blockchain by the exorbitant transaction fees due to the constrained block size.

Also they can create war and other problems for us that cause us to need to spend our BTC sooner than we anticipated.


You'll be forced to cash out of BTC before that (to some regulated financial system such as Lightning Networks, SEPA, etc) or hold your BTC a regulated exchange.

Or possibly there will be another blockchain choice such as yours truly. Ethereum is also attempting to scale the blockchain. I will make a post comparing Ethereum's technology to mine in Altcoin Discussion soon...

Chapter 6 Why Bitcoin Is a Big Deal in the book Bitcoin for the Befuddled addresses this very well. You can read it online for free with Google books.

Also chapter 7 The Cryptography Behind Bitcoin in the same book, is a very comprehensible explanation of ECC and the ECDSA algorithm employed in Bitcoin. With only knowledge of high school level math one could understand that.

no, john nash didn't create bitcoin

no, rothchild didn't create bitcoin

no, bitcoin will most likely not go to $500,000 in 2030

no, you will not be tortured if you own BTC

no, you will be able to move 1 BTC (we will never reach a point where fee is higher than 1 BTC, it would collapse before we get there, too many angry people will kill the project)

no, bitcoin will not be for billionaires only (devs allowing this will get killed by angry bitcoiners that holded for years only to find out their millions are stuck on the blockchain because the fees are millionaire in itselves)

iamnotback may be losing it, too much posting.

If you own bitcoin, and you don't want anyone to access it, it would be very hard for anyone to take it away, especially if it's in cold storage.

What Bitcoin confiscation exactly are you talking about?

What makes you guys think that there is going to be a worldwide dragnet on bitcoin? This sounds absolutely ridiculous.

Why would the transactions fees ever come anywhere remotely close to the value of bitcoin, if Bitcoin continues to grow as an asset?? That's just plain retarded.

I heard complaints about transaction fees. I have moved BTC from one place to another, and the transactions fees are not bad, and it's still by far the cheapest way to send money around the world today. I was charged $0.55 for transferring $200.00, and the transaction occurred in 10-15 minutes, which is normal nowadays. You guys really aren't that cheap are you???

How can they find out I own bitcoin? I have never bought it. Anyway, what's the point then? Might as well dump it all before the so called bitcoin confiscation begins.

Why doesn't rpietila and MP dump too? they are public figures so they will be the first to get trapped by the anti bitcoin government control operation. It's basically free money for them.

It's harder to trap the small guy that only owns a couple 5-21 BTC, it's not public, uses Tor etc.

If by 2030 I have several million dollars that I cannot enjoy because I can't even cash them out because the fee is higher than the million dollars I have im going to be pissed.

In fact where i really want to get at with this is this :

Even if let say you find a system who can solve the double spent in a way or another,( and without block reward all version if chains are 99% interexchangeable, for all the non double spent there is zero need for PoW, and hard consensus is only really needed when there is two incompatible version of the same tx within a certain timeframe )


But ok let say all the double spent pb are solved and there is no pow and reward associated to the block emission.

Then you dont have coin emission, the problem of initial coin distribution, and zero appeal for speculation, because all is deterministic and planned so not much speculative value.

It could be useful in case chain assets are backed by real world assets and another way is found to reach the initial consensus , but still no speculative value.

If you add to this the whole thing of fixed block emission time associated with coin emission/fixed inflation rate, and pow reward, you see the pow main interest is not necessarily the consensus reaching over the double spent .


And you cant understand the full interest of something in bitcoin if you dont see the whole picture and hiw it influence also the other side of the "coin".

And you cant estimate the value of something without taking in account all its purpose, and it's not only though as flat out distributed ledger solving double spent, there is more to it,  and all sides have they own thinking .
 

You mean they are trapped in a time loop that they cannot escape forward?

You can tell me where they derive their power.

I doubt you or most readers would understand where the elite derive their power and why they are forced to exist by a power vacuum.

The above is simply outside your capacity to comprehend. You'd need more knowledge about the relevant sciences involved.

My statement applied to Rothschild and all elite.

I have no idea what you are trying to say about the elites.

And I have no idea which elite you are referring to.

The elite that I refer to are the rothschilds.

And I believe they have far more occult knowledge than most people.

I refuted that upthread.

I really never expected you would be a liar. Amazing.

You've lost all credibility in my eyes. I had a very high opinion of you. Really amazes me that you would ignore my refutation and continue a lie.


I refuted that also. I am beginning to think maybe you are just not that smart.


Given that the elite designed Bitcoin with 1MB blocks which can never be increased (and Satoshi never said he would definitely raise it, rather he just demurred so that everyone would not be alarmed) on purpose because it keeps the riff-raff off of Bitcoin once it reaches critical mass (which has already been attained), thus you are promulgating a ridiculous red-herring.

Obviously the elite are not at all concerned about running out of block size. Duh.

The main goal as I explained to you previously was heightened security and that it doesn't bloat the UTXO which must be stored in DRAM.

You're really wasting everyone's time trying to save your ego.


The is unwise, because the cryptanalysis attacker now has an additional degree-of-freedom to modify the message, since the public key recovery is dependent on both signature and the message signed.

Satoshi was not at all worried about the block size. Security was his #1 priority.

So once again we see if we had you let you design Bitcoin, you would have made it less secure.


We are not going to repeat that debate again. I already refuted that upthread.

What makes you think the elite want to be locked together in a mutual self-destruction of NWO and 666.

They think they have no choice (or let's say nature forces them to exist), because fungible money is a winner-take-all power vacuum.

My idea may change everything. If the knowledge age ameloriates the power vacuum of fungible money, then the shadow elites may gleefully attack each other and return their former power back to emergent chaos, because they would have no other choice.

Fundamental laws of physics can't be avoided.

I also have a Theory of Everything I hope to publish a summary maybe tomorrow in a blog on Steemit. I will also explain how to do time travel realistically!

Can't you see the date on the OP of this thread was Jan 27. I started a different thread this week. I presume you know the difference between January and April.

"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function". Al Barlett on Growth and Sustainability

Compute: (500000÷1200)^(1÷13) = 1.59

Thus to reach $500,000 in 13 years from a starting price of $1200, a compounded rise in price of 59% per year is all that is required.

Do you understand now why I think @dinofelis is very mathematically near-sighted.

The chart you showed is not constant compounded growth, but rather logistic growth. Indeed we should expect Bitcoin to be logistic, because nothing can grow at a constant exponential rate forever. Since the $10 entry price in early 2013 to the recent $1300 price, Bitcoin has averaged 237% gain per year compounded. So we can see that Bitcoin's price is rising much faster than 59% per year right now and so by 2030 the price rise can slow down to much less than 59% per year and still reach $500,000. I believe @rpietila did some logistic models of potential BTC prices.

If we assume a 75% compounded rate (for the equivalent logistic model) from now until 2024, then the BTC price will rise 50X, thus $60,000 and the market cap will be $1.2 trillion.

Of course no one can surpass the elite in BTC wealth, because they mined most of the first 10.5 million Bitcoins.

Most of us won't have enough BTC to stay on chain that long so we will be kicked out to currencies (altcoins or what ever) which are regulated and many of us will have our wealth confiscated by governments gone bezerk with the severe sovereign debt collapse that Bitcoin is going to help cause and make severe.

You say you won't give your private keys, but the government can throw you in jail and torture you. Also I expect by 2024 or so, the elite will have control over the mining and can blacklist addresses they want to.


They aren't. See above.


Offshore banks aren't a reserve currency.