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Topic: Just-Dice.com : Invest in 1% House Edge Dice Game - page 96. (Read 435353 times)

elm
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1000
Dooglus,

Is there anything you can do to fix the lag issue? many bets take 5-10 seconds to finish.  I'm able to spam 5-10 bets in a row, and then have to wait 5 seconds on random bets.

You can see that it makes for frustrating gambling, and since that is our main product, what can we do address this service issue ??

yes that frustrated me also
full member
Activity: 476
Merit: 100
Dooglus,

Is there anything you can do to fix the lag issue? many bets take 5-10 seconds to finish.  I'm able to spam 5-10 bets in a row, and then have to wait 5 seconds on random bets.

You can see that it makes for frustrating gambling, and since that is our main product, what can we do address this service issue ??
GOB
member
Activity: 94
Merit: 10
Come on!
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
This bull will try to shake you off. Hold tight!
A little on Naks run last night

He started at about -2839 with 36k invested amd max profit about 180.  Got down to +300ish and ran it back up to -4300 up 1500ish.  All in about a half hour.

Then he invested about 12k and site sits at -2700 now and with about 25% of bankroll he made about 400 of the 1600 coins thus the 36k bankroll he prior to him investing is down 300 coins.

si his total haul since lasr night is 1900 coins nice day at the office.


He definitely knows how to annoy the investors. Grin

Thx for the report.
sr. member
Activity: 337
Merit: 252
So, what the rest of investors would think about trying with a 1.5% edge? It's going to be difficult to have doog agree on that as all the marketing of JD is based on the extremely low 1% edge, but I would love to hear your reasoned opinions.
I would totally agree.

After all, this site is made for profit, so if profit isn't there, we need to change something.


So your argument is the classical "Something must be done, this is something therefore it should be done"  Roll Eyes
legendary
Activity: 2324
Merit: 1125
Tucenabar, I cannot really understand you graphs, care to explain them again?

Ok, I will try. (I updated the previous post with a line explaining what's on the axes)

We know that the player will alway go bust eventually, if he keeps playing. So I ignored the number of plays and just asked the question, during the whole time from the point he starts and until he goes bankrupt, what is the minimum bankroll for the house? Or equivalently, what is the maximum capital of the player?

The graphs show the percentiles of the minimum bankroll.

With kelly bet. There is a 10% chance that the bankroll goes down to 0.35, i.e. 35% of initial bankroll.

With 50% Kelly, there is a 10% risk of reaching 0.57 or 57% of initial bankroll.

With 25% Kelly bet, the 10% risk is 0.74 or 74%.

Does that make it clearer? I'm not very good at explaining I'm afraid Wink

Nice way to look at it Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
This bull will try to shake you off. Hold tight!
Tucenabar, I cannot really understand you graphs, care to explain them again?

Ok, I will try. (I updated the previous post with a line explaining what's on the axes)

We know that the player will alway go bust eventually, if he keeps playing. So I ignored the number of plays and just asked the question, during the whole time from the point he starts and until he goes bankrupt, what is the minimum bankroll for the house? Or equivalently, what is the maximum capital of the player?

The graphs show the percentiles of the minimum bankroll.

With kelly bet. There is a 10% chance that the bankroll goes down to 0.35, i.e. 35% of initial bankroll.

With 50% Kelly, there is a 10% risk of reaching 0.57 or 57% of initial bankroll.

With 25% Kelly bet, the 10% risk is 0.74 or 74%.

Does that make it clearer? I'm not very good at explaining I'm afraid Wink

Very clear, thanks so much. Very valuable information!  Smiley


Is it correct to state that it now already happened that a whale took bankroll down to 57%? So the 10% chance already happened?

(Considering bankroll should now normally be around 40k + 37k profit, but is only 40k (or 50k with whale included).)
sr. member
Activity: 337
Merit: 252
Tucenabar, I cannot really understand you graphs, care to explain them again?

Ok, I will try. (I updated the previous post with a line explaining what's on the axes)

We know that the player will alway go bust eventually, if he keeps playing. So I ignored the number of plays and just asked the question, during the whole time from the point he starts and until he goes bankrupt, what is the minimum bankroll for the house? Or equivalently, what is the maximum capital of the player?

The graphs show the percentiles of the minimum bankroll.

With kelly bet. There is a 10% chance that the bankroll goes down to below 0.35, i.e. 35% of initial bankroll.

With 50% Kelly, there is a 10% risk of reaching going below 0.57 or 57% of initial bankroll.

With 25% Kelly bet, the 10% risk is 0.74 or 74%.

Does that make it clearer? I'm not very good at explaining I'm afraid Wink
sr. member
Activity: 493
Merit: 262
So, what the rest of investors would think about trying with a 1.5% edge? It's going to be difficult to have doog agree on that as all the marketing of JD is based on the extremely low 1% edge, but I would love to hear your reasoned opinions.
I would totally agree.

After all, this site is made for profit, so if profit isn't there, we need to change something.

If gamblers switch to another site with lower house edge, there's also no profit.
hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 500
Bitgoblin
So, what the rest of investors would think about trying with a 1.5% edge? It's going to be difficult to have doog agree on that as all the marketing of JD is based on the extremely low 1% edge, but I would love to hear your reasoned opinions.
I would totally agree.

After all, this site is made for profit, so if profit isn't there, we need to change something.
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1018
Tucenabar, I cannot really understand you graphs, care to explain them again?
sr. member
Activity: 337
Merit: 252
So, what the rest of investors would think about trying with a 1.5% edge? It's going to be difficult to have doog agree on that as all the marketing of JD is based on the extremely low 1% edge, but I would love to hear your reasoned opinions.

I have run some "crazy whale" simulations. Assuming there is a lone whale betting max at all times trying to break the house, and also assuming that he keeps playing until going broke.

What is the minimum bankroll we risk until the whale busts?

I was surprised to see that the house edge has almost no influence on this number! Almost all risk comes from the maximum allowed win. Of course he will survive at lot fewer plays with a bigger house edge but that is not the question I was interested in.

Note that the simulations are not a fixed number of plays, rather they show the complete lifetime of the player.

The initial capital of the whale is not very influential either, surprisingly (but I didn't make a graph showing that) The graphs below use a player starting capital of 25% of the house.

On the horizontal axis are the percentiles and the vertical axis is the minimum bankroll.



If we compare this to the effect of changing maximum win size:



I conclude that Dooglus did the right choice when he lowered the maximum win to 50% of the Kelly bet. I was critical at first, but I'm even starting to think that 25% was not such a bad idea.

These results also seem to indicate that raising the house edge is of little use.
full member
Activity: 476
Merit: 100
dooglus, that blackmail email for 400BTC was hilarious!!! thanks for posting.
VTC
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 14
Investors balances needs to be updated.  Why not just make a text file on the server that auto updates like wagered.txt and link to it on the forums.  One less task to do weekly  Grin

That's a good idea.

I've updated the OP, but will do what you suggest in future.

Note that from this week I'm not listing the 'base' amount for accounts with 0 invested, so the list is quite a bit shorter than previous weeks.

Can you update investors balances for last two Sundays.  Smiley
member
Activity: 99
Merit: 10
Again my losses grow and my break even point increases in relation to the house profit... Yesterday at this exact point in house profit my losses were lower, and BTW my share in the house roll has been diluted dramatically.

Same for me, at some point I saw the investment changing of 12K (from 36 to 48), so I guess there is a big investor there who joined after some losses and raised the break even point.

Looks like only the braves got a lot to lose from the situation...

The "big investor" is Nakowa, the whole 12k belong to him. I just read the chat logs, he seems to be past his delusion. He is said aprox. 1 hour ago he just realized that there is no flaw in the site, is just that the 1% house edge is so small that he can create huge variance and end up ahead in the short term by playing with his enormous bankroll... And he also said he realized that if he keeps playing forever he will lose it everything.

This said, I also checked the thread about statistical analysis of Satoshi Dice, precisely by Dooglus. Even with a 1.9% house edge, there were months that the site lost quite a lot of money... I'm now wondering how many billion bets we will need for the 1% edge to do its thing and thus investors to profit.

I run some simulations with a starting bankroll of 1BTC and a gambler who is playing 1% of the bankroll at 49.5%. X-axis is the number of plays (multiply by 10^5) and y-axis is the empirical probability of ending up with less than 1 BTC.

legendary
Activity: 2324
Merit: 1125
full member
Activity: 230
Merit: 100
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1018
Great  Undecided

So if he keeps this 12k investment I (and many others I assume) don't even need to dream about getting back their loss any time soon.

I congratulate him to being past his delusion. A gambling addiction always ends in a disaster. So I hope for him to be past it. Still this hurts  Sad

Yep, it hurts, but it is what it is. Being the house of an online casino with such a small edge was never meant to be a "stable, long-term investment" as many delusional investors want to believe. We are gambling too, its just that our gamble is +EV, but for that positive expected value to be realized we need to look to the very long term. Plus, the fact that the "never divest" guys as myself took the lion share of the losses and continually get diluted on the profits make the "very long term" even longer Wink

Meanwhile, Nakowa even said on the chat:

Quote
10:02:25 (136175) don't be hostile to me. Smiley I'm just an investor (gambler) as you all here.

Well, admitting he is a gambler is indeed a good step towards redemption.
legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1001
Great  Undecided

So if he keeps this 12k investment I (and many others I assume) don't even need to dream about getting back their loss any time soon.

I congratulate him to being past his delusion. A gambling addiction always ends in a disaster. So I hope for him to be past it. Still this hurts  Sad
elm
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1000
.
[/quote]

The "big investor" is Nakowa, the whole 12k belong to him. I just read the chat logs, he seems to be past his delusion. He is said aprox. 1 hour ago he just realized that there is no flaw in the site, is just that the 1% house edge is so small that he can create huge variance and end up ahead in the short term by playing with his enormous bankroll... And he also said he realized that if he keeps playing forever he will lose it everything.

[/quote]

come on......what do you expect him to say? hey guys I have found a nice cheat and I am taking all Your money, please stay invested.

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