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Topic: Just-Dice.com : now with added CLAMs : Play or Invest - page 148. (Read 454831 times)

member
Activity: 117
Merit: 10
What we have here is a situation where someone appears to be actually beating the house edge over many thousands of bets. And this is intriguing, because from a statistical point of view this should not be possible. You can't win a coin toss came if the coin is balanced towards the house, no matter what system you use.

-Michael
It's called variance.

Are you saying that if I toss a coin 1000 times, I won't - on average, hit 500 heads and 500 tails?

If you are saying that, then there can't be a 50/50 chance of heads and tails. Both statements can't be true at the same time.

And no I'm not saying that if you play 3 times you couldn't win 3 times, that will surely happen. But at JD we are not talking about 3 bets, we are talking about thousands of plays where the house edge seeming doesn't provide the house with any edge at all.

This "whale" seems to be playing martingale with 100 btc bets. Martingale is *not* a winning strategy long term, otherwise anyone could walk into a casino, sit down by the roulette and gain financial freedom. Eventually red will come up 12 times in a row, and you will lose your bankroll.

So how is this whale winning long term by using a martingale strategy? It's certainly not because of "variance", the number of bets and the casino bankroll drawdown is just too consistent and too deep. This looks more and more like someone found some statistical exploit in the way lucky numbers are generated based on nonces, hash values and transaction id's. It looks deliberate, not just like a guy with a really big wallet or a lot of luck.

-Michael
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1015
Also - has anyone noticed that despite the 1 percent edge JD has never made a 1 % profit? It was about half that - before the current fiasco - now we know why.

This part is untrue. Before Nakowa we hit almost 2% profit. I have been with the site since the beginning and it was certainly over 1% for the first few weeks until Nakowa came.
legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1003
Designer - Developer
Nakowa has said he is taking the site to -2000.. divest bitches!
vip
Activity: 756
Merit: 503
If you don't like variance then invest in bond or something. Investing in a casino is basically gambling with the edge on your side. The long term is an order of magnitude longer than what most people can imagine. Obviously, I'm implying that there is no flaw in the RNG.
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
Whatever your doing its working, congrats on the winnings you must be buzzing now

I'm answering questions here: http://www.reddit.com/r/AMA/comments/1my8fc/im_the_whale_on_justdice_id_love_to_answer/
b!z
legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1010
What we have here is a situation where someone appears to be actually beating the house edge over many thousands of bets. And this is intriguing, because from a statistical point of view this should not be possible. You can't win a coin toss came if the coin is balanced towards the house, no matter what system you use.

-Michael
It's called variance.
legendary
Activity: 1578
Merit: 1000
May the coin be with you..
The whale just took another 1kBTC from JD

Tired to explain why and how.

Might be better to take it as supernatural? It seems I can feel next wins...



Whatever your doing its working, congrats on the winnings you must be buzzing now
member
Activity: 117
Merit: 10

We profit 76 % of the time over 1,000 bets - not 50.8 % of the time like with 1 bet.

THAT'S being an investor, not a gambler.

Also - has anyone noticed that despite the 1 percent edge JD has never made a 1 % profit? It was about half that - before the current fiasco - now we know why.

Variance. Lets lower it by refusing big bets.


I'm sorry, but this is the biggest load of BS I have ever read. Clearly you have not done the math.

If you make 1000 bets with a 1% house edge, you will win 490 times and the house will win 510 times. The house will not win 76% of the time.

Variance means nothing as far as house edge. Playing many tiny bets and playing one huge bet provides precisely the same house income over time. As a gambler, you will have no advantage by placing smaller bets and winning and losing small amounts than by placing a single large bet. Over time it's just a matter of scale.

A casino runs the risk of losing the bankroll only if they don't cap the size of their maximum bets. Because obviously there's only a 51% chance of winning that bet, and thus a 49% chance of going bust from the casino's point of view. But JD does have these limits. Noone is placing bets of 1000 BTC or more. The max win is 1% of the invested capital, which makes good sense. There is no reason to limit that further.

What we have here is a situation where someone appears to be actually beating the house edge over many thousands of bets. And this is intriguing, because from a statistical point of view this should not be possible. You can't win a coin toss came if the coin is balanced towards the house, no matter what system you use.

-Michael
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1015
You are up 11,000 now Nakowa?
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
Seems like the inputs.io problem has been fixed
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
The whale just took another 1kBTC from JD

Tired to explain why and how.

Might be better to take it as supernatural? It seems I can feel next wins...

legendary
Activity: 1578
Merit: 1000
May the coin be with you..
The whale just took another 1kBTC from JD
member
Activity: 117
Merit: 10
Actually I remember reading an article a long time ago that said the way to make $ at any table is to bet the max and quit, win or lose.
I actually wrote a simulation in QBASIC for that and it worked.
This is what's happening here.

No.

Playing once is not a winning strategy. If it is, you'll have to show the math that proves it.

-Michael
member
Activity: 117
Merit: 10
We are not being killed by huge martingale bettors, we are being killed by someone who bets 100 BTC on 49.5% 12 times and wins 11.

Quite the contrary. You *want* these people in your casino. Because in a second, he's going to bet 12 times and lose 12 times. That's what the house edge is all about - Martingale is a losing strategy and the more martingale betters you have, the better.

Why do you think almost all the online dice houses have "auto" modes that specifically cater to Martingale betters? Because these stupid people think they can work around their statistical disadvantage using a top secret system they bought from some internet marketeer.

Look at how the balance is decreasing. It's slow and steady, like satoshis are seeping though the creeks somehow.

-Michael
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
He only makes commision on investors that profit.  So if you're deep in a whole then he won't be earning commissions from you.

Here's an analysis on the standard deviation.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3214226

Where did doog mention divesting?
In chat - we spoke about it a couple times.  Says he cannot handle the variance and that nakowa always seems to win.  He says he will stay divested.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 500
He only makes commision on investors that profit.  So if you're deep in a whole then he won't be earning commissions from you.

Here's an analysis on the standard deviation.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3214226

Where did doog mention divesting?
vip
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1043
👻
This has been mentioned to Dooglus many times, his answer he always gives if you want less exposure then decrease your investment.  There will be no change.  Either accept the conditions or divest.

He'll change or go broke. I'm outta here.
Doog never goes broke.  He is completely divested and plans to stay so.  He makes all his profit off commission and that gets locked in weekly. 
He earns more commission when investors make more profit.
legendary
Activity: 1414
Merit: 1000
HODL OR DIE
If people can't handle losing investments then they should not invest. If the whale had lost your attitude would be irrevocably otherwise.The site makes no surprises here. They offer high limits with 1% edge, this isn't like booking a Keno game. The issue is the whale has played a low number of high limit bets and run hot. Does anyone know his ROI? Or # of bets that he placed?
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
This has been mentioned to Dooglus many times, his answer he always gives if you want less exposure then decrease your investment.  There will be no change.  Either accept the conditions or divest.

He'll change or go broke. I'm outta here.
Doog never goes broke.  He is completely divested and plans to stay so.  He makes all his profit off commission and that gets locked in weekly. 
full member
Activity: 128
Merit: 100
This has been mentioned to Dooglus many times, his answer he always gives if you want less exposure then decrease your investment.  There will be no change.  Either accept the conditions or divest.

He'll change or go broke. I'm outta here.
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