Topic: KanoPool kano.is lowest 0.9% fee 🐈 since 2014 - Worldwide - 2432 blocks - page 1469. (Read 5352420 times)

It's good to see so many new miners hitting blocks!

Edit: and watching my Coinbase incoming coins at the same time!

Block by bluemine1024 with 58THs!  This is his 2nd Kano Block! 

that does seem kinda strange why 1 person woulddnt message you kano

I've got PMs from 2 different people regarding having miners redirected to 'other' accounts.
Also another person in IRC who left before replying to me.
I'm not really sure why it's from multiple people, but anyway.

Neither of the 2 target accounts have been paid - they're on hold - they were created after I processed the last lot of payouts.
There's an email address, and IP addresses logged of course.
There are no other new accounts created 'in the last couple of days' mining from your IP address.

The people involved, could you sort it out among yourselves and then get just one person to contact me so I know who I should be discussing it with
(make sure you include the other names so I know it's not fake)

Just imagine if you had registered before how many blocks you could have found by now
Just kidding

Well done!

That's my point in this all.
Indeed I'm working on (slowly ) getting all that sorted and together.
Since the pool now has a very large amount of data on the reliability of rental sites, I'll make my decision based on the results.
But I'll also be able to post the results publicly since they wont show users, just rental sites.
Since it's a lot of data, it should also be able to be broken up into time ranges to also get an idea of when things are good or bad.

I've a thread about rentals here a year ago:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/pps-block-withholding-and-rentals-1002086

*Hash treat my comments about it as a joke ...
They get paid 6% no matter what happens ... yeah more than ANY actual pool ever gets ... they're just a proxy ... so yeah I can't see them ever doing anything.

My last post they never replied to:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.14321298

And apparently the large amounts of *Hash being pointed at the pool is none of my business ... ... ...
I can make in none of my business by banning it ... ... ...

A post before that they completely ignored
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.13533668

Also never heard back from them if they ever did anything about this either:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.13490011
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.13499391

Anyway, we'll see (in a few weeks) what the results are.

Nice indeed.

I just barely got registered yesterday after so long not being able to get registered, and now i hit a block for kano  NICE!!

Hi Folks,
Although I have not found a block with my rentals, I have, and do, use them when I have to power down my machines. Such as when I have company and they must sleep in the "coin room".

I have also bought anywhere from 25-400TH of hash and pointed at this pool on more than a few occasions. If we hit blocks during that time or shortly afterwards, my average is still high enough to earn me 8 to 10 x more than I would have earned with only my three S7's.

Unless it can be positively proved that there are bad actors hiding in the rental pools and harming our luck on purpose, I'm not in favor of banning rentals. Even if that were the case, possibly something less drastic could work just as well and cover our butt from the threat. I don't know, I'm not sure how it would work. That's above my pay grade.

I just finished about a 2-day hash rental from WH at 250TH because I had company and could not run my machines. I also earned a little bit more than I spent on the rental, so that is always a positive.

Looking to see the green back on the stats board!

Let's find a couple more blocks today!

Just my .02.

I have hit 4 blocks with rentals  pushed about 110 coins in to get 100 coins back.

So while not lucky certainly not terrible bad luck.

Kano can do studies and decide if nicehash-westhash has really bad luck.

I'm not advocating the banning of rentals.  In fact, I have spent way more coin (think nearly 100BTC) on rentals than I probably should have.  Personally, I've seen no indication of bad actors as I've hit 6 blocks with rentals (4 on my own pool, 2 on pools previous to my pool starting).

My only point was that if I'm a bad actor, the rental services are where I'd hide because tracking me would be extremely difficult.

I stayed away from rentals for months while occasionally mentioning the withholding risk, but I never saw any evidence of it happening.  Despite the amount of rental activity this pool was getting, our long term averages just didn't show an issue.  The math made/makes the risk from rental withholding low (e.g. if 10% of the pool were rentals and 10% of the rental service was bad hash, then the impact on the pool would be 1% -- I'm talking typical rental activity here, not the block busting bursts).  With no evidence of withholding actually happening, the 1% risk wasn't too bad.  So, I gave (and still am) rentals a shot.  At the best point I was up over 1BTC.  The bad luck came and I kept renting steady through the bad luck.  I lost 2BTC and found myself down 1BTC.  Now, just as I'm beginning to recover (maybe) with an upturn in luck, is when a campaign starts to ban rentals from the pool...

Don't get me wrong, if rentals are provably causing the pool harm then something should be done about them (myself included), but let's wait until Kano looks through the data before jumping to (and acting on) conclusions. 

Regardless, a lot of the rental problem may go away on its own on 6/1 anyway.  NH is switching to PH units but keeping the 0.0001 scale (so, to decrease what is now a single step from 0.0026 to 0.0025 will require going 2.6000, 2.5999, 2.5998, etc. one step at a time with minutes of delay between each tiny step).  That is probably going to make it impossible to get the rental price back down to anything decent whenever the mysterious highly overpriced infinity hash rate orders flash up for an hour and go away.  Anyone who runs a bot to maintain a steady N avg (like myself) is going to find this a nuisance-- possibly enough to give up.

In this situation, unless they are continuing to build said equipment (which wouldn't make sense) then increasing network hashrate would make their gear less and less relevant over time just like all mining hardware.  I have an S1, a BFL jalapeno, a BFL little single, and 2 AMT block erupters in my personal BTC mining museum (literally a pile in the corner) but if these things were somehow incapable of hitting blocks at current difficulty due to software\firmware issues, their hashrate is so low it would be pointless to use them even if I had hundreds of them.  If someone developed their own hardware and it was literally incapable of finding blocks, the steady increase of miners on the network would eventually make that gear meaningless to run even with free electricity.  Basically it means this theory requires that the gear be somewhat newish, like something built in the last year to 18 months or so.  If it was older than that they would need quite a lot of it to still aggregate to any decent amount of hash now.


This is possible.  The thing is that the attacker is stealing from the miners on the pool and not the pool op, although as we have all seen, a lot of bad luck does tend to send miners elsewhere.  This would imply someone associated with their own pool or cloud mining service.  This seems the most likely real world scenario for a withholding attack to me.  Plus it makes the most sense.  They would need access to a lot of hashrate and they would have to be knowledgeable enough to write the software that was witholding blocks.  It would require running a lot of hashrate through a proxy or filter of some kind.  These things suggest a pool or cloudhashing service.  But this should (eventually) be possible to spot since it would be a lot of hashrate coming from a single or a few IP's.



Only 6 seconds after the bitfury block.  Must be why we only got 87 transactions in it.  Still, better than the 0 transactions it would have had if it was found by one of the pools-which-must-not-be-named.

There are 2 reasons basically...if they had a farm full of custom equipment that were not capable of hitting a block but had super cheap power, they could still earn shares and get paid even though they knew they would never hit a block of any kind.  The expense of upgrading would be just too high to motivate them to fix the issue and they just keep mining as-is until they are discovered and get run off.

The second reason would be to simply to crap on a pool hard enough to hurt them and drive them out of business. 

The withholder gets paid but doesn't raise the network difficulty.  They get paid by the pool where they appear to add hashrate but since they never find blocks the bitcoin network doesn't adjust difficulty any higher for their hashrate since, again, they never actually contribute blocks.  

The thing is that you have to have a lot of hashrate for this to matter.  I would think with difficulty where it is now and where it looks likely to go soon (with bitfury building more efficient chips now and BW also supposedly building with new gen chips and BMT announcing the S9 soonish) you would need to measure your hashrate in Ph/s for a block withholding attack to even matter in terms of making a dent in the network diff jumps.  It matters to a pool of course if you have 750 Th/s or something like that and withhold blocks, but what's the point other than stealing from the pool?  The difference that will make in terms of network difficulty seems like it isn't worth it.

And hiding Ph/s worth of block withholding is much easier to do on a big pool than on a small one although it could be done on a rental site.  

Eyyyyy ElChapo, congratulations! Block party.

Block by Elchapo with 90THs!  Welcome to the Acclaim Board with your first Kano Block! 

I will rent ya'all some private hash power! 

Someone needs to explain to me the motivation for a block withholding attack.  My understanding is the attacker gains nothing.....

Private rentals can still be a thing. Large mines for the most part do like renting their hashrate and getting a payment upfront even if it is less than what they could have earned mining themselves, it takes a little risk away from them and puts BTC into their wallets immediately. Now with private renting there would definitely be minimums, like hashrate and duration as a mine operator does not want to take that much time dividing out the equipment. The people who like getting 100TH+ for 24 hours or more will probably be fine, it's the renters that want to grab a few TH for a few hours that would be affected mostly.